Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

robwen

Jordan Henderson, 'The Captain of Everything'

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/21/sports/soccer/liverpool-premier-league-jordan-henderson.html

RonanG86

Keita's a write off lads.

He isn't going to deliver. He's had three years and hasn't, why would he start now? And it's not just because of injuries either. A typical Keita performance consists of starting the game well, vanishing after the 10 minute mark and then maybe re-appearing for a few mintues either side of half time before being pulled around the 65th minute. And that's his level regardless of how physically fit he is, or how long he's been available for selection. It baffles me that Klopp gave him as many chances as he did.

The talent's there but he clearly can't be bothered applying it. The fact that he only bothered to learn any English when he was facing the possibility of losing his Work Permit along with his performances on the pitch suggest a lazy personality to me. Balotelli in midfielder form.

If Athletico, or Leicester or anybody come in with actual money for this guy, we should cut our losses and let him go.

gimli2112

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How long will it take before some of you trust Klopp and this regime on player decisions?

Imagine the heights we could have reached with some of these lads in charge!

Zak Flaps

mosstin wrote: »

Absolutely not. They've tightened up at the back but they're quite dour under Tuchel. We've quickly forgotten with all of our injuries just how good we've been in the very recent past. Even now, with brittle confidence, we're the form team in the league in spite of recurring injuries.

We are indeed the form team, but i don't think we have been that great the last 6 weeks, despite our wins. We have been lucky at times and we have been playing teams right at the bottom, or teams with nothing much to play for, and struggled at times. We have been nowhere near as good as last season.
Fingers crossed VVD, Gomez and Henderson will be back and fully fit next season.
But we need to add to our squad.
If Chelsea sort out their forward issues, they will be very strong next season.

Girly Gal

gimli2112 wrote: »

Imagine the heights we could have reached with some of these lads in charge!

Klopp's not infallible and has and will make mistakes, every manager does, look it took until the end of February before he really gave Philips a chance and then only because he had no other option, Williams was being given more opportunities until the United cup tie and had Davies been fit he too would probably have gotten an opportunity before Philips, turns out Philips is actually decent enough and much more reliable than Williams. He persisted too long with Moreno and Karius too, both probably cost us European trophies. These are just a few examples where Klopp got it wrong and there's nothing wrong with people pointing this out, it doesn't take away from the amazing job Klopp has done, no one else would have achieved what he has achieved with us, but, he has made some mistakes along the way.

gimli2112

Hindsight is great isn't it? No one can tell what the net result of certain decisions may be. I didn't like Moreno or Karius either but maybe Robertson wouldn't have developed into the player he has if Klopp hadn't dealt with him the way he did. Maybe we never get to the CL final if we had gotten Alisson a year early. Maybe Karius would have developed if the CL errors hadn't happened or Alisson had done something similar and shot his confidence to hell.

The absolute certainty people have if he had done this or that simply isn't right. Personally I'm happy he's making the decisions and not anyone else.

Girly Gal

gimli2112 wrote: »

Hindsight is great isn't it? No one can tell what the net result of certain decisions may be. I didn't like Moreno or Karius either but maybe Robertson wouldn't have developed into the player he has if Klopp hadn't dealt with him the way he did. Maybe we never get to the CL final if we had gotten Alisson a year early. Maybe Karius would have developed if the CL errors hadn't happened or Alisson had done something similar and shot his confidence to hell.

The absolute certainty people have if he had done this or that simply isn't right. Personally I'm happy he's making the decisions and not anyone else.

I'm happy with Klopp too, but, when he makes mistakes it's ok for people to point that out without being hammered for it. I don't really see why Robertson wouldn't have developed into the player he is had he played a month or two earlier, but, you seem certain he wouldn't have, mainly because Klopp didn't play him and it wasn't a direct choice of Moreno or Robertson, because pretty much anyone else would have been better than Moreno, yet he continued to persist with him. Klopp does tend to favour certain players and give them endless opportunities, yet others tend not to get a look in even when very few options available to him. It might be down to the players attitude in training and obviously he sees that everyday, but, sometimes players don't repay that faith he has in them on the pitch, Moreno being the prime example.

gimli2112

Girly Gal wrote: »

I'm happy with Klopp too, but, when he makes mistakes it's ok for people to point that out without being hammered for it. I don't really see why Robertson wouldn't have developed into the player he is had he played a month or two earlier, but, you seem certain he wouldn't have, mainly because Klopp didn't play him and it wasn't a direct choice of Moreno or Robertson, because pretty much anyone else would have been better than Moreno, yet he continued to persist with him. Klopp does tend to favour certain players and give them endless opportunities, yet others tend not to get a look in even when very few options available to him. It might be down to the players attitude in training and obviously he sees that everyday, but, sometimes players don't repay that faith he has in them on the pitch, Moreno being the prime example.

that's not what I said at all. I said we simply don't know. Klopp is with these players constantly, he knows them well, their personalities and abilities, which you allude to yourself. It's fans on the internet second guessing the man that's ridiculous.

Osmosis Jones

The way I see Keita right now is that he's Sturridge without any of the goodwill. Danny spent most of his time at the club injured and making his way back into the team for a few games before the next knock, but before that he was one of the best strikers in the league and helped give us one of our best seasons in 15 years so there was a decent reason for fans to hold on to so much hope.

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

The way I see Keita right now is that he's Sturridge without any of the goodwill. Danny spent most of his time at the club injured and making his way back into the team for a few games before the next knock, but before that he was one of the best strikers in the league and helped give us one of our best seasons in 15 years so there was a decent reason for fans to hold on to so much hope.

I've not thought about DS in years. Such a waste. Still only 31, should have been in his prime these past two years. A free agent.

Osmosis Jones

Deleted User wrote: »

I've not thought about DS in years. Such a waste. Still only 31, should have been in his prime these past two years. A free agent.

I'm glad he got to go out on somewhat of a high at least, winning the Champions League for a campaign he actually played a part in.

dmigsy

gimli2112 wrote: »

Imagine the heights we could have reached with some of these lads in charge!

Most of the squad would have been released in January if the headbangers on this thread were in charge :pac:

Widdensushi

dmigsy wrote: »

Most of the squad would have been released in January if the headbangers on this thread were in charge :pac:

Maybe insert a we, me or us somewhere there

dmigsy

Widdensushi wrote: »

Maybe insert a we, me or us somewhere there

Why? I've not been critical of the players this year. I don't think it's fair to compare their performance this year vs the last few seasons when the team has had it's foundation ripped out and not replaced.

I've been resolutely of the opinion that the season was a write-off in terms of competing for honours when top level CBs were not signed on Jan 1.

Frankly, if the team makes CL this year it will have been a fantastic performance from the squad to get there. A massive let-off for the owners too imo.

Widdensushi

dmigsy wrote: »

Why? I've not been critical of the players this year. I don't think it's fair to compare their performance this year vs the last few seasons when the team has had it's foundation ripped out and not replaced.

I've been resolutely of the opinion that the season was a write-off in terms of competing for honours when top level CBs were not signed on Jan 1.

Frankly, if the team makes CL this year it will have been a fantastic performance from the squad to get there. A massive let-off for the owners too imo.

Fine, but you come across as an arrogant bastard looking down your nose at other posters on this thread.

Girly Gal

gimli2112 wrote: »

that's not what I said at all. I said we simply don't know. Klopp is with these players constantly, he knows them well, their personalities and abilities, which you allude to yourself. It's fans on the internet second guessing the man that's ridiculous.

Look, all I'm saying is Klopp despite all he's done, he's not beyond criticism, (no one is), he does get things wrong at times, Moreno being the most obvious. I'm fine with him making mistakes, every manager ever has and will make mistakes, he's the first to admit it himself, but, it's just that some people will never admit that Klopp makes mistakes or go out of their way to justify any mistake he makes. He generally makes the right call, but, it's ok to admit that he gets it wrong at times too.

dmigsy

dmigsy wrote: »

Why? I've not been critical of the players this year. I don't think it's fair to compare their performance this year vs the last few seasons when the team has had it's foundation ripped out and not replaced.

I've been resolutely of the opinion that the season was a write-off in terms of competing for honours when top level CBs were not signed on Jan 1.

Frankly, if the team makes CL this year it will have been a fantastic performance from the squad to get there. A massive let-off for the owners too imo.

No, it really wasn’t a fantastic performance. Losing all those matches was and dropping points in the last minutes was uncharacteristic. We stood top of the league at one point even with injuries, now we need to win our last game for fourth place. Winning the league was going to be a monumental achievement, qualifying for the CL is not. To many players didn’t perform, too many mistakes made, including from Klopp. This current team is good enough to compete, will it be good enough to challenge MC next season? Debatable, plus, Chelsea and Man U have improved their squads. So, if your opinion is based on last season’s achievements, then you need to consider that the players will be two years older, some have lost form, some have had serious injuries, some might be looking for a new challenge, and some are just not good enough anymore. So, if those around us are improving, Liverpool need to do the same.

All great Liverpool teams, in fact all great teams need refreshments, Ferguson believes every 3 years he had to refresh his teams to keep them at the top. The last great Liverpool team of the late 80s all got old at the same time, failure to invest whilst at the top cost the Club for decades. No Liverpool supporter believed in 1990 that the club would go through the next decade without a championship, never mind the next three.

dmigsy

Widdensushi wrote: »

Fine, but you come across as an arrogant bastard looking down your nose at other posters on this thread.

Tell me how you really feel!

Quite a few posters on here have knee-jerked their way through the season, eg sell Firmino, sell Mane, sell Salah etc etc. Continuous, embarrassing, reactionary stuff from a lot of them. A lot of their posts do deserve a bit sneering at imo. You need an arrogant bastard to call them out.

dmigsy

dmigsy wrote: »

Tell me how you really feel!

Quite a few posters on here have knee-jerked their way through the season, eg sell Firmino, sell Mane, sell Salah etc etc. Continuous, embarrassing, reactionary stuff from a lot of them. A lot of their posts do deserve a bit sneering at imo. You need an arrogant bastard to call them out.

You don’t feel Mane and Firmino have lost a step?

If Jota hadn’t got injured when he was on fire, I think one of those would have warmed the bench this season.

Salah is brilliant, but at times he hasn’t looked happy, thank God it didn’t affect his performances or this season could have been much worse.

dmigsy

Dav010 wrote: »

No, it really wasn’t a fantastic performance. Losing all those matches was and dropping points in the last minutes was uncharacteristic. We stood top of the league at one point even with injuries, now we need to win our last game for fourth place. Winning the league was going to be a monumental achievement, qualifying for the CL is not. To many players didn’t perform, too many mistakes made, including from Klopp. This current team is good enough to compete, will it be good enough to challenge MC next season? Debatable, plus, Chelsea and Man U have improved their squads. So, if your opinion is based on last season’s achievements, then you need to consider that the players will be two years older, some have lost form, some have had serious injuries, some might be looking for a new challenge, and some are just not good enough anymore. So, if those around us are improving, Liverpool need to do the same.

All great Liverpool teams, in fact all great teams need refreshments, Ferguson believes every 3 years he had to refresh his teams to keep them at the top. The last great Liverpool team of the late 80s all got old at the same time, failure to invest whilst at the top cost the Club for decades. No Liverpool supporter believed in 1990 that the club would go through the next decade without a championship, never mind the next three.

Agree on the need to refresh periodiocally and I think the Thiago and Jota signings were great examples of the efforts to refresh the side. Pity that injury knocked Jota out for so long. Sure there were individual errors, mistakes and loss of form as in every season but the loss of the CBs had such an impact on style of play and team structure that I do this getting CL is a fantastic performance.

dmigsy

dmigsy wrote: »

Agree on the need to refresh periodiocally and I think the Thiago and Jota signings were great examples of the efforts to refresh the side. Pity that injury knocked Jota out for so long. Sure there were individual errors, mistakes and loss of form as in every season but the loss of the CBs had such an impact on style of play and team structure that I do this getting CL is a fantastic performance.

It might be, considered where we were at the start of April, but there were many shoddy performances which put us in that situation. Looking back, persisting for so long with Fabinho at CB to the detriment of the team was unbelievable.

dmigsy

Dav010 wrote: »

It might be, considered where we were at the start of April, but there were many shoddy performances which put us in that situation. Looking back, persisting for so long with Fabinho at CB to the detriment of the team was unbelievable.

The lack of bite in midfield was compounded by the loss of Henderson(injury or him playing CB) for good chunks of the season too. Yeah persisting with Fabinho there was probably an error from Klopp alright, but not many were calling him on it at the time when Fabinho was playing very well at CB. Hindsight is 20:20 and all that.

dmigsy

dmigsy wrote: »

The lack of bite in midfield was compounded by the loss of Henderson(injury or him playing CB) for good chunks of the season too. Yeah persisting with Fabinho there was probably an error from Klopp alright, but not many were calling him on it at the time when Fabinho was playing very well at CB. Hindsight is 20:20 and all that.

Another issue which needs to be addressed is the lack of goals from the midfield. Look how often MC and MU midfielders contributed to the goals scored, I’d really like to see Gini replaced with a midfielder with form for scoring. Too often we relied on working the ball through tight channels for the front three.

dmigsy

dmigsy wrote: »

Tell me how you really feel!

Quite a few posters on here have knee-jerked their way through the season, eg sell Firmino, sell Mane, sell Salah etc etc. Continuous, embarrassing, reactionary stuff from a lot of them. A lot of their posts do deserve a bit sneering at imo. You need an arrogant bastard to call them out.

Salah has been great this season... The other two have been dogsh1t and I'm not sure why folk are so sure they will reclaim their best form. Bobby wasn't great last season either.
Chips in a couple of goals recently and that's crucial so fair play but it's a minimum expectation for a PL forward to score occasionally and he's not scoring enough. Mane is as bad this season.

No point selling either TBH as you'd get next to nothing for them.

mosstin

Dav010 wrote: »

Another issue which needs to be addressed is the lack of goals from the midfield. Look how often MC and MU midfielders contributed to the goals scored, I’d really like to see Gini replaced with a midfielder with form for scoring. Too often we relied on working the ball through tight channels for the front three.

Gini has form for scoring as can be seen by his return at international level. It isn't his form but his altered role at Liverpool that's prevented him from adding to his tally. In general, there definitely is a need to add goals from all sectors - other than Salah (and to some extent Jota), we haven't had anyone consistently getting goals. Even the goals from our defenders seem to have dried up this year but I'm confident with all of the pieces back in their right place next season, we'll address this.

OwaynOTT

I dunno, I kinda think we should have persisted with Moreno. Remember that goal he scored, could have done with that now

marklazarcovic

If I never see nabby in a LFC shirt again he will be quickly forgotten..a waste of money..for whatever reason.

robwen

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I dunno, I kinda think we should have persisted with Moreno. Remember that goal he scored, could have done with that now

How's he getting on these days, does he play much at Villarreal, would he be likely to start the Europa final?

dmigsy

Augeo wrote: »

Salah has been great this season... The other two have been dogsh1t and I'm not sure why folk are so sure they will reclaim their best form. Bobby wasn't great last season either.
Chips in a couple of goals recently and that's crucial so fair play but it's a minimum expectation for a PL forward to score occasionally and he's not scoring enough. Mane is as bad this season.

No point selling either TBH as you'd get next to nothing for them.

No point in selling either player as they are two of the greatest heroes in the modern history of the club and should be permitted a dip in form and backed to regain form rather than dumped after a season where the team has been patched together.

mosstin

mosstin wrote: »

Gini has form for scoring as can be seen by his return at international level. It isn't his form but his altered role at Liverpool that's prevented him from adding to his tally. In general, there definitely is a need to add goals from all sectors - other than Salah (and to some extent Jota), we haven't had anyone consistently getting goals. Even the goals from our defenders seem to have dried up this year but I'm confident with all of the pieces back in their right place next season, we'll address this.

Goals from midfielders this season.

Gini 2
Hendo 1
Ox.1.
Jones 1.
Tiago. 1

MU 27, MC 22.

ShamoBuc

Dav010 wrote: »

Goals from midfielders this season.

Gini 2
Hendo 1
Ox.1.
Jones 1.
Tiago. 1

Gini stands out as a very poor return given his game time, Tiago will bang a few more in I think next year, now he has settled in.
Adding the number of starts/games to each name would be a bit more revealing.

Also, our midfielders are not the designated penalty taker, which completely skews the MU/MC goals figure I would imagine.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Gini stands out as a very poor return given his game time, Tiago will bang a few more in I think next year, now he has settled in.
Adding the number of starts/games to each name would be a bit more revealing.

It wouldn’t really, that is the sum total from midfield the whole season. The other midfielders did not score at all.

Shanee.

Naby has been the more recent coming of Aquilani. I can’t see him here next season

ShamoBuc

Dav010 wrote: »

It wouldn’t really, that is the sum total from midfield the whole season. The other midfielders did not score at all.

I think it would, Ox got 1 goal from how many games ?
If he played 10 times or 50 would of course have a bearing.
Comparisons this season have the inherent problem of our midfield being decimated for a quantity of games, which completely changed how we played. We are setup to primarily get ball to the top3, comparing their stats with City and United could show a difference in our favour, especially when City played without an actual, striker in a lot of games.

mosstin

Dav010 wrote: »

Goals from midfielders this season.

Gini 2
Hendo 1
Ox.1.
Jones 1.
Tiago. 1

MU 27, MC 22.

I'm not sure why you're quoting those to me?

Fitz*

robwen wrote: »

How's he getting on these days, does he play much at Villarreal, would he be likely to start the Europa final?

He done his cruciate in pre season so missed most of the season. He missed a good portion of last season too but started games when fit. I doubt he'll start the final, but could come on as a substitute.

marklazarcovic

Bobby has more open play goals this season than Bruno f .. lolz

BorneTobyWilde

What is Ings worth in todays market.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Yz8WMdv7A

He's be a great no9 , if we really do need a striker. Mbappe is not possible, Real have him in their pocket.

~Rebel~

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What is Ings worth in todays market.

Only a year left on his contract, so might be cheaper than he should be... maybe 35 or 40m or so?

BorneTobyWilde

And 20% goes to Liverpool if he's sold.

BorneTobyWilde

André Silva will end up with more league goals that Salah, Kane, Mbappe, Haaland, Suarez, Benzema.. Could be a shrewd purchase .

gimli2112

combined? why aren't we signing him FSG Out, storm Anfield!

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And 20% goes to Liverpool if he's sold.

Can't see them refusing 30m TBH.
I reckon he will stay there though.

Fitz*

There's a chance that Jota could play tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1396100769800142849?s=19

Girly Gal

If we have a 20% sell on clause regarding Ings and we bought him could we get him for 20% less than his market value?

Yes... We could then sell him immediately again
I can't see us signing any 28 year olds TBH

mosstin

Girly Gal wrote: »

If we have a 20% sell on clause regarding Ings and we bought him could we get him for 20% less than his market value?

Agent Coulson

Griezmann for €50m is being linked this afternoon.

BorneTobyWilde

Old-Mann more like it. Get Silva