Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

Enzokk

ebbsy wrote: »

So if there is a toe offside does that mean the goal will still be chalked off ??


If it is then then can keep it.

I don't understand, you want goals to count where the person is offside? Or you want the rule rewritten?

~Rebel~

Enzokk wrote: »

I don't understand, you want goals to count where the person is offside? Or you want the rule rewritten?

Honestly, the rule should be rewritten. The point of it was to stop players being in an advantageous position - and was dependent on the advantage being clear enough that the linesman could actually see it.

When you take that aspect out of it with a technology that’s interpreting literally with far greater precision than was ever intended, it means things are ‘technically’ offside that a linesman would never have flagged, and never considered advantageous.

If they want offside to be what it was intended to be, the rule needs to be changed to define what an unfair advantage is - because a toe or a heel or an armpit a mm off is not an advantage.

Personally, I’d go back to the Lino eyeballing it, with VAR able to overrule those few times when the lino missed an obvious one - with VAR also eyeballing it from the screen with only one line. Again, only to be reviewed in those cases where someone was way off, or was flagged off while clearly on. IMO human interpretation is too important to that specific role to automate it.

doc_17

Whatever the technology being used for offside, it will still lead to arguments. At the minute you have people arguing about the exact minute the ball was played. We’ll soon be arguing about Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle!

doc_17

doc_17 wrote: »

Whatever the technology being used for offside, it will still lead to arguments. At the minute you have people arguing about the exact minute the ball was played. We’ll soon be arguing about Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle!

Should a goal dependent on VAR review be considered a schrodinger goal?

.red.

Ardent wrote: »

Chelsea gonna be a huge threat next season, excellent squad and manager. Very envious of them having Havertz and James who were immense last night.

James is pretty decent but I wouldn't swap him for our own right backs left foot.

Tuchel and Chelsea remind me a little of Klopps early Liverpool, except Tuchel inherited a squad capable of challenging. They're probably a 12/18 months ahead of where Klopp started and only gonna get better.

Girly Gal

It's funny that despite having a terrible season, we will probably head into next season in a better place than almost all our rivals with the possible exception of Chelsea. It just shows how quickly things can change in football. Finishing the season strongly and nicking that CL spot really gives up some momentum going into next season, but, the cherry on top was watching both Manchester clubs lose European finals.

City from a position of strength are suddenly under pressure to deliver in Europe once and for all, the fact that Pep handed the initiative to Chelsea by not playing a DM only makes things better, their obsession to win the CL may lead to them taking their eye off the ball in the league. Ole will start the season under pressure to deliver a trophy of some kind, tbh it's only a matter of time before he crashes and burns there so we might as well enjoy it while we can as they will at some stage appoint a decent manager that will make them serious contenders again. Chelsea will get a great boost from winning the CL and will no doubt strengthen, but, I still think over the course of the season we would finish ahead of them.

Of course a lot will depend on what happens in the transfer market over the summer, City, Chelsea and United will all strengthen and spend big, so it's vital we have a good transfer window both in and out of the club, Konate looks to be a good start.

Girly Gal

Girly Gal wrote: »

It's funny that despite having a terrible season, we will probably head into next season in a better place than almost all our rivals with the possible exception of Chelsea. It just shows how quickly things can change in football. Finishing the season strongly and nicking that CL spot really gives up some momentum going into next season, but, the cherry on top was watching both Manchester clubs lose European finals.

City from a position of strength are suddenly under pressure to deliver in Europe once and for all, the fact that Pep handed the initiative to Chelsea by not playing a DM only makes things better, their obsession to win the CL may lead to them taking their eye off the ball in the league. Ole will start the season under pressure to deliver a trophy of some kind, tbh it's only a matter of time before he crashes and burns there so we might as well enjoy it while we can as they will at some stage appoint a decent manager that will make them serious contenders again. Chelsea will get a great boost from winning the CL and will no doubt strengthen, but, I still think over the course of the season we would finish ahead of them.

Of course a lot will depend on what happens in the transfer market over the summer, City, Chelsea and United will all strengthen and spend big, so it's vital we have a good transfer window both in and out of the club, Konate looks to be a good start.

City go in as favourites and will be the team to beat again. No doubt about it.

I disagree grabbing top 4 gives you any momentum. That's gone now.

Adding quality, and keeping Klopp at the wheel is the name of the game. A bit of luck with injuries too and we'll finish on a better points total.

Agent Coulson

I wonder will they hold off on looking for a starting a forward this summer and give Mane & Bobby one last season to go out on and get in a player like Pereira who would work as a good squad player.

I think both Mane & Bobby will be sold next summer.

Thought I'd honestly like to see the club go back in for Werner if Chelsea sign a big name striker.

TitianGerm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder will they hold off on looking for a starting a forward this summer and give Mane & Bobby one last season to go out on and get in a player like Pereira who would work as a good squad player.

I think both Mane & Bobby will be sold next summer.

Thought I'd honestly like to see the club go back in for Werner if Chelsea sign a big name striker.

Pereira in and Shaq/Origi out would be a good move. He'd be a decent squad option for very little outlay, possibly £20-25m?

Talisman

6 wrote: »

City go in as favourites and will be the team to beat again. No doubt about it.

I disagree grabbing top 4 gives you any momentum. That's gone now.

Adding quality, and keeping Klopp at the wheel is the name of the game. A bit of luck with injuries too and we'll finish on a better points total.

The momentum comes from turning relegation form into title winning form for the last 10 league games of the season. Klopp spoke of 10 cup finals, his team delivered 8 wins and 2 draws to finish third in the table.

~Rebel~

Talisman wrote: »

The momentum comes from turning relegation form into title winning form for the last 10 league games of the season. Klopp spoke of 10 cup finals, his team delivered 8 wins and 2 draws to finish third in the table.

And emotionally I think there's a certain amount of momentum created by players looking into the new season with positivity, knowing they're in the champions league, versus the negativity of having fallen short and being in the Europa.

Daemonic

We should be thankful for the draws against Newcastle and Leeds. Without those it'd be 10 wins in a row and giddiness would ensue.

Agent Coulson

Calhanoglu is being linked on a free this afternoon he could a replacement for Shaq.

Girly Gal

6 wrote: »

City go in as favourites and will be the team to beat again. No doubt about it.

I disagree grabbing top 4 gives you any momentum. That's gone now.

Adding quality, and keeping Klopp at the wheel is the name of the game. A bit of luck with injuries too and we'll finish on a better points total.

The feel good factor of rescuing a desperate situation and turning our form around to make top 4 totally changes the atmosphere around the club and within the squad. Making top 4 also makes it easier to attract the players we want and hold onto our best players. Also watching City lose last night would have boosted the squad feel good factor even more.
I agree City will definitely go in as favourites for the league, but, under even more pressure to deliver in Europe now, so the league will not be their top priority. Chelsea of course will be strong contenders, but, I think we'll finish above them over the course of the season. When you look where we were as recently as the Newcastle game things have definitely gone our way, so definitely reasons to be optimistic.

TitianGerm

https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs/2021

Have a go at picking the CL group stages for next season.

Who I'd like to be drawn with - Inter, Benfica & Wolfsburg. Teams we haven't played in a while and no long trips to eastern Europe.

atilladehun

The second half of the 12/13 season we were humming. Definitely helped going into the following season.

Doesn't always flow but the gloom at the end of Rodgers final full season flowed into the next start.

Agent Coulson

I'd be very happy with this group.

Inter
Liverpool
Porto
Wolfsburg.

https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs/2021

Girly Gal

How a team finishes a season can often run into the next, Leicester being the prime example, they were bottom of the table and won something like 7 or 8 of their last 10 games and continued on the following season to win the league. You often see teams who finish the season poorly getting off to a poor start the following season and finding themselves getting sucked into a relegation battle.

nazmoalex

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'd be very happy with this group.

Inter
Liverpool
Porto
Wolfsburg.

https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs/2021

Sure what about the qualifiers? Bit early to be doing a draw.

Agent Coulson

nazmoalex wrote: »

Sure what about the qualifiers? Bit early to be doing a draw.

Jaysus it’s only a bit of fun.

The White Wolf

We have to qualify??? :eek:

nazmoalex

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Jaysus it’s only a bit of fun.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be a killjoy! I just started doing the draw myself and thought hang on, what about Rangers and the likes. There's a fair amount to be decided. As for top seeds, Villarreal would be my preference.

~Rebel~

The White Wolf wrote: »

We have to qualify??? :eek:

Nah, but other teams do, so some of the teams in the draw aren't finalised yet.

.G.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder will they hold off on looking for a starting a forward this summer and give Mane & Bobby one last season to go out on and get in a player like Pereira who would work as a good squad player.

I think both Mane & Bobby will be sold next summer.

Thought I'd honestly like to see the club go back in for Werner if Chelsea sign a big name striker.

It's imperative we sign a forward this summer imo. Sadio and Mo will be off to Afcon in January and Mo could very well miss a chunk of the start of the season if they pick him for the Olympics.

Agent Coulson

Former underage and 2 game stand in senior manager Neil Critchley has lead Blackpool to the Championship winning the League One paly offs.

eigrod

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Former underage and 2 game stand in senior manager Neil Critchley has lead Blackpool to the Championship winning the League One paly offs.

Learned from the best in Jurgen.

The Euros are a slog for the players.. No break from PL season really... Warm up / friendlies in a few days.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://draw.inker.one/#/cl/gs/2021

Have a go at picking the CL group stages for next season.

Who I'd like to be drawn with - Inter, Benfica & Wolfsburg. Teams we haven't played in a while and no long trips to eastern Europe.

Pot 2 is NASTY

dogbert27

Augeo wrote: »

The Euros are a slog for the players.. No break from PL season really... Warm up / friendlies in a few days.

Who have we got going?

Thiago, TAA, Robertson, Jota, Shaqiri, Henderson (?)

Origi not selected by Belgium. Greece aren't in it so Tsimikas is out. Milner, Jones, Keita, Ox, Mane, Salah, VVD, Gomez, Phillips, Matip, N Williams,

Main risk is our 2 full backs but I think Scotland won't make it past the group stage and TAA won't be starting for England.

I'm more concerned with the spine of the team going to the Copa America:

Allison, Fabinho, Firmino

eigrod

Neco Williams will be travelling with Wales.

Agent Coulson

So Williams, Wilson, Shaq, Hendo, TAA?, Robbo, Thiago, Jota at the Euro's

Wilson & Shaq could add a few pounds to their transfer fees if they have good Euro's.

Konate at the Under 21 Euro's

Bobby, Ali & Fab at the Copa.

Minamino and & Salah at the Olympics maybe.

dogbert27

Group

I think England will take one of the top 2 spots but Croatia and Czech Republic will provide tough opposition for them.

Regardless of top 2 England will go to the knock outs.

I see Scotland finishing last so Andy coming home early.

Group A:

Italy, Switzerland, Turkey too strong for Wales. Neco coming home early.

Group E:
Spain, Poland, Sweden, Slovakia.

Thiago will progress to the knock outs.

Group F:
France, Germany, Portugal, Hungary

Portugal should go through to the knock outs

dogbert27

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So Williams, Wilson, Shaq, Hendo, TAA?, Robbo, Thiago, Jota at the Euro's

Wilson & Shaq could had a few pounds to their transfer fees if they have good Euro's.

Konate at the Under 21 Euro's

Bobby, Ali & Fab at the Copa.

Minamino and & Salah at the Olympics maybe.

More worried with Salah at the Olympics. Apparently the OC are making all competitors sign a disclaimer that the OC are not responsible for them catching Covid by attending the games.

Gbear

Didn't Salah already get Covid?

It'd be unlikely he'd get it again (although not impossible AFAIK).

dogbert27

Gbear wrote: »

Didn't Salah already get Covid?

It'd be unlikely he'd get it again (although not impossible AFAIK).

Could catch another variant I think.

Even with the vaccinations people will still catch Covid, it's just that the symptoms won't be so sever.

Speak Now

Daemonic wrote: »

We should be thankful for the draws against Newcastle and Leeds. Without those it'd be 10 wins in a row and giddiness would ensue.

We won 2 in injury time as well so 26 from 30 was a fair reflection of the last 10 games. Worth it though the way it turned out especially after the giddiness the Premier league thread when we looked goosed.

gimli2112

Gbear wrote: »

Didn't Salah already get Covid?(although not impossible AFAIK).

yeah but not the Japanese Olympic variant

MD1990

gimli2112 wrote: »

yeah but not the Japanese Olympic variant

I have heard it is World Record 500 times more transmissible than previous variants.

They are worried even De Gea might catch it.

Girly Gal

dogbert27 wrote: »

Group

I think England will take one of the top 2 spots but Croatia and Czech Republic will provide tough opposition for them.

Regardless of top 2 England will go to the knock outs.

I see Scotland finishing last so Andy coming home early.

Group A:

Italy, Switzerland, Turkey too strong for Wales. Neco coming home early.

Group E:
Spain, Poland, Sweden, Slovakia.

Thiago will progress to the knock outs.

Group F:
France, Germany, Portugal, Hungary

Portugal should go through to the knock outs

Group F really is the group of death, world champions, European champions and Germany all in one group, could be a heavyweight contender going home early

MD1990

https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1399091114674688000


only 17. Player of the Tournament at the u20 ANC

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1399091114674688000


only 17. Player of the Tournament at the u20 ANC

Memories of Ryan Babel

~Rebel~

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Memories of Ryan Babel

Issahaku-Copter has a nice ring to it!

Agent Coulson

The power on those last two goals from a 17 year old.


The Ghanaian Messi to join the Polish Messi.

Enzokk

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Honestly, the rule should be rewritten. The point of it was to stop players being in an advantageous position - and was dependent on the advantage being clear enough that the linesman could actually see it.

When you take that aspect out of it with a technology that’s interpreting literally with far greater precision than was ever intended, it means things are ‘technically’ offside that a linesman would never have flagged, and never considered advantageous.

If they want offside to be what it was intended to be, the rule needs to be changed to define what an unfair advantage is - because a toe or a heel or an armpit a mm off is not an advantage.

Personally, I’d go back to the Lino eyeballing it, with VAR able to overrule those few times when the lino missed an obvious one - with VAR also eyeballing it from the screen with only one line. Again, only to be reviewed in those cases where someone was way off, or was flagged off while clearly on. IMO human interpretation is too important to that specific role to automate it.

The problem with VAR and offside is this, if you bring in technology you are going to have mm decisions because technology allows it. Even if you give a 500mm error margin, what if its 501mm? How is that 1mm over the 50cm an advantage? So lets make it 510mm, but then you have one that is 511mm offside and how is that 1mm an advantage. You start seeing the problem here?

If you don't want to look at lines and mm's, just come out and say it. But then you will have to be happy that these will be given as offside,





So, for me the question is simply, do you want to avoid calls like the above? If yes then you will have to put up with calls about mm's. If the new system works it will take a lot of the complaints away from supporters about not being able to celebrate a goal, if the decision is made quickly. Don't know what the issue with that can be. I mean we are happy to accept this,



So if the decisions are made relatively as quickly I don't see what the issue would be. I don't really care what they decide the rule should be.

.G.

MD1990 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JDNalton/status/1399091114674688000


only 17. Player of the Tournament at the u20 ANC

https://twitter.com/stevedaviesseo/status/1399121193605738501?s=1005

~Rebel~

Enzokk wrote: »

The problem with VAR and offside is this, if you bring in technology you are going to have mm decisions because technology allows it. Even if you give a 500mm error margin, what if its 501mm? How is that 1mm over the 50cm an advantage? So lets make it 510mm, but then you have one that is 511mm offside and how is that 1mm an advantage. You start seeing the problem here?

If you don't want to look at lines and mm's, just come out and say it. But then you will have to be happy that these will be given as offside,



So, for me the question is simply, do you want to avoid calls like the above? If yes then you will have to put up with calls about mm's. If the new system works it will take a lot of the complaints away from supporters about not being able to celebrate a goal, if the decision is made quickly. Don't know what the issue with that can be. I mean we are happy to accept this,


So if the decisions are made relatively as quickly I don't see what the issue would be. I don't really care what they decide the rule should be.

I mean, I outlined a usage above where you don't have mm's and armpit-lines, and also don't have big mistakes.

"I’d go back to the Lino eyeballing it, with VAR able to overrule those few times when the lino missed an obvious one - with VAR also eyeballing it from the screen with only one line. Again, only to be reviewed in those cases where someone was way off, or was flagged off while clearly on. IMO human interpretation is too important to that specific role to automate it. " Let their reviewers use their judgment rather than breaking out the calipers

The linesman is the first port of call, they have their usual responsibility to get it right - but you still have VAR to make sure there aren't obvious errors. If you can't literally see with your own eyes that the lino was wrong - happy days. And if you can see it, it's a quick call, because it's literally something you can see.

Most importantly what this does is brings back level. Half a foot may be offside, but they're ostensibly level. There isn't a load of hand-wringing over minutia lines that are totally at odds with the purpose of offside anyway. IMO if downward lines are ever really needed, then you're level.

So that would be my preference.


But as I've said on here before, the tight calls are far less annoying than the lack of advantage gained by the player - so if they do want to keep the ultra accurate mm details they need to redefine what constitutes an advantage - because a toe off isn't one. In that instance, the Wenger rule, or basically 'daylight' seems as good a line as any. The players whole body has to be off for them to be off. I think that's fair, as you're erring on the side of the attacker, and counting a body's width as being a positional advantage significant enough to rule out. That's cool with me. I'd rather a tedious mm decision where you can really see the advantage gained, over a tedious mm decision where the guy still had a mountain of work to do, with only the hairs on his arse making him offside.

Fitz*

Talisman wrote: »

The momentum comes from turning relegation form into title winning form for the last 10 league games of the season. Klopp spoke of 10 cup finals, his team delivered 8 wins and 2 draws to finish third in the table.

Agreed. It also proved that the players still have that muscle memory of winning games every week. Coming back from defeats to win etc. To win a league these days, you have to go on big 10 game winning streak. The players proved that they can do that again, to a degree.

Finishing on such a run did a lot for confidence, let alone CL qualification. Gets the players back in the winning mindset.

Talisman

Fatawu Issahaku was supposed to sign for Bayer Leverkusen last week but Liverpool appear to have gazumped them.

Fatawu Issahaku’s move to Bayer Leverkusen falls through

Ghanaian youngster Fatawu Issahaku’s proposed move to Bayer Leverkusen has fallen through, according to German media.

Issahaku arrived in Germany this week to seal the transfer to Leverkusen but the club has decided not to sign him due to his advisors “dubious and disrespectful behavior”.

“Fatawu is a highly talented player and Bayer made a very good offer,” says Michael Ruhnau, who put Bayer and Fatawu’s agent in contact, “but I can understand those responsible for Bayer because of dubious and disrespectful behavior from Fatawu’s advisors, they have refrained from the transfer.”

On Wednesday, Fatawu’s advisor cancelled the second and final date for sealing the deal with Bayer at short notice. It is alleged the agent may have wanted to meet representatives of Liverpool on the same day. The latter was exposed because Fatawu had posted a video from his hotel room, during which a corresponding telephone conversation could be heard in the background when a meeting in Portugal was arranged for Wednesday afternoon. This meant that the Fatawu theme was over for Bayer 04 despite his talent.

The advisor’s approach apparently has a method. Fatawu’s agent has been peddling clubs like FC Basel, RSC Anderlecht, RB Salzburg, Ajax, BVB and Liverpool since March to drive up the price. Where Fatawu gets the best opportunity to develop seems to be of much less importance for the advisor.

Fatawu, who can play on the wings, but also centrally behind the striker, is considered a highly talented player, whose services Bayer would not have been able to fall back on until the 2022/2023 season.

Because before his 18th birthday, Fatawu, who will come of age in March 2022, is not allowed to sign a professional contract. He would not have received a game permit before that.

The youngster was adjudged most valuable player at the 2021 Africa U-20 Cup of Nations in Mauritania as Ghana lifted the trophy.

It will be interesting to see what the club do with him until he turns 18 next year, maybe he could go to RB Salzburg on loan if they operate under a less restrictive work permit system. Otherwise it will need to be a club in Belgium if Liverpool want him to have the opportunity of first team football for the forthcoming season.

TitianGerm

Copa America not going ahead in Argentina now because of rises in Covid Cases there.

14 days to find a new host is pushing it.

McFly85

Enzokk wrote: »

The problem with VAR and offside is this, if you bring in technology you are going to have mm decisions because technology allows it. Even if you give a 500mm error margin, what if its 501mm? How is that 1mm over the 50cm an advantage? So lets make it 510mm, but then you have one that is 511mm offside and how is that 1mm an advantage. You start seeing the problem here?

If you don't want to look at lines and mm's, just come out and say it. But then you will have to be happy that these will be given as offside,





So, for me the question is simply, do you want to avoid calls like the above? If yes then you will have to put up with calls about mm's. If the new system works it will take a lot of the complaints away from supporters about not being able to celebrate a goal, if the decision is made quickly. Don't know what the issue with that can be. I mean we are happy to accept this,



So if the decisions are made relatively as quickly I don't see what the issue would be. I don't really care what they decide the rule should be.

VAR isn’t technology, it’s a set of people looking at camera footage and making the decisions. And currently it’s blatantly obvious they can’t distinguish to mm even though they’re attempting to. But even if they could, they shouldn’t, for 1 main reason: it’s not possible for players themselves to judge their position relative to the last defender in millimetres during play.

So by judging in these terms, what we would have considered level in the past effectively no longer exists, as players themselves will have to be more cautious about it.

In my mind it’s an easy fix:

Conclusive offside = offside
Inconclusive/marginal offside = offside if the referee determines that a legitimate advantage was gained.

Trying to turn offside into an absolute will end up discouraging attacking play, which I don’t think anyone wants.