Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

Doff

martyos121 wrote: »

without Salah, it's much more difficult but it's possible

Didn't seem that way for a large majority of the season. He's absolutely earned a new contract for single-handedly carrying us for the majority of the season. Fabinho has been amazing too, no doubt about it, and he's done enough to warrant a new contract but Salah has to be the priority for me.

Fitz*

martyos121 wrote: »

For sure, Salah's our best player and probably the best in the league if I'm being honest.

Having said that, if I could only give one player a new contract in the summer, it'd be Fabinho and I wouldn't have to think very hard over it. We can score goals without Salah, it's much more difficult but it's possible and we have Jota now too so there's depth up front.

The second half of the season has proven that we absolutely can't compete at the highest level without at least one of Fabinho or Hendo in midfield, and that frightens me a bit as they do both pick up injuries every season.

I'm sorry but that's just wrong IMO. There is pretty much no evidence to support the idea that Liverpool would be ok without Salah. He didn't start 5 games this season and by my reckoning, it was 3 poor performances from the 5.

The only CL game he didn't start this season was Midtjylland, and Liverpool struggled attacking wise. Salah came off the bench & scored. There were 4 games in the league that Salah didn't start. 3-0 v Leicester which was one of the better performances tbf, the 7-0 v Palace (Salah scored or set up 3 of those) and then the 1-1 draw with Leeds with awful finishing and 1-0 loss to Burnley at home.

Salah started every other game. He scored 31 goals. 20 of those were to put Liverpool level or into the lead. No other player comes close that that, and that doesn't even count his goals v Real Madrid or Villa for example as we were 2-0 down and made it 2-1 etc.

Any truth in our Brazilians boycotting Copa America?

dmigsy

Talisman wrote: »

There's no revisionism - Henderson was first selected at centre back on January 4th. As a pairing Matip & Fabinho worked, Williams & Fabinho had issues, Phillips & Fabinho worked, Henderson & Fabinho killed the midfield.

Game 15 (Dec 27): Matip & Fabinho started against WBA. Liverpool were 1-0 against WBA when Matip went off injured around 60 minutes. Williams was his replacement and looked nervous. Allardyce introduced Matheus Pereira and Charlie Austin, their equaliser came from Pereira's cross. From what we have see of the pair since, Nat Phillips was the better suited defender for that game.

Game 16 (Dec 30): Phillips & Fabinho started against Newcastle. Phillips handled himself well and showed awareness to compensate for his lack of pace. He didn't look out of place as a defender.

Game 17 (Jan 4): Fabinho & Henderson were the chosen pairing, Williams and Phillips were back on the bench. There were plenty of people who had the WTF thought when the lineup was announced. It took Southampton 2 minutes to score and it was game over. Liverpool dropped to third in the table.

Game 18 (Jan 17): Henderson & Fabinho vs Man Utd. I expected a blood bath but for whatever reason they didn't try to exploit the weakness in our team and were content to let us pass it around.

Game 19 (Jan 21): Matip & Fabinho vs Burnley. Matip wasn't supposed to be ready to return but he played because Henderson was unavailable. Fabinho picked up an injury and played on. Liverpool lost and dropped to fifth in the table.

Game 20 (Jan 28): Matip & Henderson vs Tottenham. Matip got injured again and Phillips was the replacement. At least one lesson appeared to have been learned, Phillips is a better choice than Williams.

By the end of January it was clear that of the available options that Nat Phillips was the best available defender. Yet he was dropped so an unfit Fabinho could partner Henderson against Man City and the loanee Kabak partnered Henderson against Leicester in the following game.

All of your examples are at or after the turn of the year. Not sure you're disagreeing with my point - Fabinho playing at CB had gotten the team to top of the table by mid-season. Think everyone knew by end of Jan that the midfield was struggling without the main men.

Fromvert

Augeo wrote: »

Any truth in our Brazilians boycotting Copa America?

I think it was Tim Vickery on Off The Ball (or maybe it was the someone else on a different podcast) saying that there's a group of players from different countries against it. He brought it up when talking about Messi/Aguero back together at Barca and mentioned a potential player revolt against the tournament. He then name checked Suarez and Cavani as being against it.

I'd guess all the powerful players in Europe will not go. Brazil is a mess right now, no way will they allow themselves spend a month there unless all the proper measures are in order. Their clubs are likely putting on the pressure too.

paulie21

Mo included in PFA team of the season for 4th year in a row. Pretty impressive

Girly Gal

dmigsy wrote: »

All of your examples are at or after the turn of the year. Not sure you're disagreeing with my point - Fabinho playing at CB had gotten the team to top of the table by mid-season. Think everyone knew by end of Jan that the midfield was struggling without the main men.

Plenty of people knew at the beginning of January and said it here when Henderson was named at CB alongside Fabinho that the midfield would struggle and that's how it played out, also getting a CB in, in January was poorly handled. Klopp was obviously reluctant to play Philips as he didn't really get a proper opportunity there despite all the injuries until Henderson's injury in late February/early March and Klopp was out of options at CB so had to play Philips, he took his opportunity and this allowed Fabinho to play in midfield when he returned from injury, that's when our form picked up.

The fact we ended up getting top 4 isn't justification for what went on regarding CB selection back in January/ February or how poorly the transfer window was handled. While our form turned around, the reality is both Leicester and Chelsea let us off the hook big time.

Agent Coulson

Academy players being released.

Liam Coyle, Joe Hardy, Abdi Sharif and Jack Walls are set to leave the Reds upon the expiry of their contracts this summer.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/436031-reds-confirm-premier-league-retained-list

Agent Coulson

Spain vs Portugal kicks off in 20 minutes and both Thiago and Jota start.

paulie21

paulie21 wrote: »

Mo included in PFA team of the season for 4th year in a row. Pretty impressive

4 season wonder

Talisman

dmigsy wrote: »

All of your examples are at or after the turn of the year. Not sure you're disagreeing with my point - Fabinho playing at CB had gotten the team to top of the table by mid-season. Think everyone knew by end of Jan that the midfield was struggling without the main men.

That's a significant change from what you had previously said though.

There was plenty of evidence that that Klopp's approach in selecting Henderson and Fabinho at CB was working.

That didn't happen until January 4th and it ruined the team.

~Rebel~

Talisman wrote: »

That's a significant change from what you had previously said though.
That didn't happen until January 4th and it ruined the team.

Indeed - it's a Fabinho/Henderson point really, rather than just a Fabinho one. If one of them is in midfield, we're alright. If neither are in midfield, we're trash. So they should never be both switched to CB, and if one is unavailable for selection, the other has to be selected in midfield.

Girly Gal

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Indeed - it's a Fabinho/Henderson point really, rather than just a Fabinho one. If one of them is in midfield, we're alright. If neither are in midfield, we're trash. So they should never be both switched to CB, and if one is unavailable for selection, the other has to be selected in midfield.

That's true, but, of course pointing this out will be called revisionisim or 20/20 hindsight, even though plenty pointed this out back in January when both were named at CB

dmigsy

Talisman wrote: »

That's a significant change from what you had previously said though.
That didn't happen until January 4th and it ruined the team.

"It ruined the team." He had no centre-backs and it looked like the least risky option at the time. Pretty much no-one thought Williams or Phillips was a viable starter in Dec/January. Not Klopp, not the vast majority of fans. It became something that was thrown out there as an option a few games into a bad run.

dmigsy

Girly Gal wrote: »

That's true, but, of course pointing this out will be called revisionisim or 20/20 hindsight, even though plenty pointed this out back in January when both were named at CB

It's called learning. We all learn. Most people didn't think Phillips was up to starting to start PL games. He made everyone look like fools with a string of fine performances.

It's ok to admit that previous thinking was wrong. The revisionism or 20/20 hindsight that's going on here is pretending that the solution was clear or obvious all along. It wasn't. Fabinho/Henderson at CB was a perfectly logical thing to try before throwing in Williams or Phillips.

ebbsy

Augeo wrote: »

Any truth in our Brazilians boycotting Copa America?

Its like the Olympics, all needs to be pushed forward a few years.

~Rebel~

ebbsy wrote: »

Its like the Olympics, all needs to be pushed forward a few years.

Taking it from Colombia because of civil unrest, and from Argentina because of Covid, and giving it to Brazil who are really struggling with both would be hilarious if it wasn’t so insane.

Everything about it is nuts. The group stage comprises of 20 matches. 20 matches all just to go from 10 teams down to 8. What a total waste of time and energy.

Girly Gal

dmigsy wrote: »

It's called learning. We all learn. Most people didn't think Phillips was up to starting to start PL games. He made everyone look like fools with a string of fine performances.

It's ok to admit that previous thinking was wrong. The revisionism or 20/20 hindsight that's going on here is pretending that the solution was clear or obvious all along. It wasn't. Fabinho/Henderson at CB was a perfectly logical thing to try before throwing in Williams or Phillips.

Henderson and Fabinho at CB wasn't the obvious solution when Philips had already played there twice without doing anything wrong before Henderson was moved back to CB, it was fairly obvious our midfield would struggle without either and throw in the fact Thiago was coming back from a 3 month lay off, it was a recipe for disaster and that's how it turned out. Just because you didn't see it at the time doesn't mean others didn't, plenty people on here said it at the time.

I think the disappointing thing at the time was Klopp persisted so long without either Henderson or Fabinho in midfield when both Philips and Williams were available, no one was saying play both Philips and Williams together, but, I know I felt at the time Philips should have continued alongside Fabinho (or Matip when he was available) rather than take Henderson from midfield as I felt the whole balance of the team was gone without either Henderson or Fabinho in midfield.

Talisman

dmigsy wrote: »

"It ruined the team." He had no centre-backs and it looked like the least risky option at the time. Pretty much no-one thought Williams or Phillips was a viable starter in Dec/January. Not Klopp, not the vast majority of fans. It became something that was thrown out there as an option a few games into a bad run.

Nat Phillips started the game against Newcastle on December 30th. He didn't look out of place in the team. The team kept a clean sheet. Why didn't he keep his place in the side for the next game?

On January 4th, Liverpool went to Southampton a team who were devoid of confidence. Their previous win was against Sheffield Utd on December 13th, in the four intervening fixtures Southampton scored a single goal. Liverpool had nothing to fear going into the fixture, yet Klopp surrendered the midfield by pairing Henderson with Fabinho at the back. Thiago made a clumsy challenge in midfield in the second minute of the game. Ward-Prowse lofted the ball over the defense from the free kick, Ings peeled away and lobbed the keeper. Because he had been standing a few feet deeper than everyone else Henderson had played the Southampton attackers onside. Tella had an opportunity to make it 2-0 due to another defensive lapse by Henderson but the shot went wide of the post. That was Southampton's only league win until they next played Sheffield Utd on March 6th.

Phillips and Williams were available to partner Fabinho for that game. On the basis of the previous game there was no indication that starting Henderson at the back was the best option and that decision cost the team.

That game marked the beginning of the bad run.

dmigsy

Talisman wrote: »

Nat Phillips started the game against Newcastle on December 30th. He didn't look out of place in the team. The team kept a clean sheet. Why didn't he keep his place in the side for the next game?

On January 4th, Liverpool went to Southampton a team who were devoid of confidence. Their previous win was against Sheffield Utd on December 13th, in the four intervening fixtures Southampton scored a single goal. Liverpool had nothing to fear going into the fixture, yet Klopp surrendered the midfield by pairing Henderson with Fabinho at the back. Thiago made a clumsy challenge in midfield in the second minute of the game. Ward-Prowse lofted the ball over the defense from the free kick, Ings peeled away and lobbed the keeper. Because he had been standing a few feet deeper than everyone else Henderson had played the Southampton attackers onside. Tella had an opportunity to make it 2-0 due to another defensive lapse by Henderson but the shot went wide of the post. That was Southampton's only league win until they next played Sheffield Utd on March 6th.

Phillips and Williams were available to partner Fabinho for that game. On the basis of the previous game there was no indication that starting Henderson at the back was the best option and that decision cost the team.

That game marked the beginning of the bad run.

He didn't keep his place because Klopp didn't fancy him. You're very caught up on this - you're probably up to a thesis word count on the topic . It's very simple. Phillips did not look up to the level required. Klopp didn't think so, the vast majority of fans didn't think so. He got in eventually, almost by default due to injuries, and proved he was better than most thought.

The White Wolf

Joe Hardy has to be one of the strangest signings in recent memory. Can't of just been for cover for another kid.

~Rebel~

The White Wolf wrote: »

Joe Hardy has to be one of the strangest signings in recent memory. Can't of just been for cover for another kid.

I think he was primarily brought in for the reserves, when they were going to be short of strikers since Brewster was being sent on loan. Think Paul Glatzel was injured as well at the time.

He's a local lad, and he had dropped down the pecking order at Brentford, so it kind of suited everyone. He'll probably move on in another year or so - don't think he was ever thought of as being a possibility for the senior team.

Girly Gal

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think he was primarily brought in for the reserves, when they were going to be short of strikers since Brewster was being sent on loan. Think Paul Glatzel was injured as well at the time.

He's a local lad, and he had dropped down the pecking order at Brentford, so it kind of suited everyone. He'll probably move on in another year or so - don't think he was ever thought of as being a possibility for the senior team.

He'll be moving on this summer as it's been announced that he's being released

Talisman

dmigsy wrote: »

He didn't keep his place because Klopp didn't fancy him. You're very caught up on this - you're probably up to a thesis word count on the topic . It's very simple. Phillips did not look up to the level required. Klopp didn't think so, the vast majority of fans didn't think so. He got in eventually, almost by default due to injuries, and proved he was better than most thought.

Klopp messed up and made un-Klopp like decisions that compounded the issue. I think I made the point before.

If it was simply a case of Phillips not looking up to the level required why was he prevented from going on loan at the start of the season? Klopp is all about doing what is right for the player and the team.

We were down a defender because Lovren was sold and the club decided to retain Phillips for the season but the manager had no intention of using him because he wasn't up to the level. Where is the logic in that?

Phillips came through the Newcastle game without causing any heart attacks. His reward was to sit on the bench and watch the club captain give it a go.

Within two minutes, Henderson made a basic defensive error that resulted in a goal being conceded. He made another mistake before half time that could have resulted in a second goal being conceded. If a defender gave a debut performance like Henderson they would have been lynched.

On the evidence of their performances as defenders Henderson did not merit a place in the starting lineup. That is before you take into consideration how taking him out of midfield had a negative impact on the team.

Now if it's at all possible I would like you to explain to me how

There was plenty of evidence that that Klopp's approach in selecting Henderson and Fabinho at CB was working.

I am particularly interested in the Henderson at CB part of that claim.

gimli2112

something that's been on my mind for a while but at 1/2 time in the Europa League final I popped into the Utd thread. While they were one down and playing poorly the thread was still very much positive. We can win this, we're playing poorly but will kick on type of comments.

I contrast this to our thread 5 minutes into a league game and we want to sell Mane, get rid of the owners and pondering if Klopp has run his course. It's just an observation but sometimes I wish we could all calm down.

The Utd thread melted down at full time and that's fine but we don't have to give up before it's over.

TitianGerm

https://twitter.com/JuanG_Arango/status/1400831778143809541?s=20

Looks like the Brazilian lads will get a break this summer after all.

gimli2112

Brazil's really struggling with Covid and rolling out vaccinations, why they agreed to host this when they have yet to get things under control is beyond me. Even the Japanese who are taking all the measures possible don't want the Olympics. I can't imagine hosting a major international event is Brazil will end in anything but disaster.

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

......

I contrast this to our thread 5 minutes into a league game and we want to sell Mane, ......

Probably 5 mins into a league game where mane had been terrible for 15 or 25 games.
I think it's accepted we'd not yet much for him these days so not much point selling... A striker would be a great addition to the squad IMO.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JuanG_Arango/status/1400831778143809541?s=20

Looks like the Brazilian lads will get a break this summer after all.

How reliable is this guy? It's not being reported anywhere else.

Regarding Brazil hosting it - nothing surprises me with the South American Donald Trump running the country.

~Rebel~

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How reliable is this guy? It's not being reported anywhere else.

Regarding Brazil hosting it - nothing surprises me with the South American Donald Trump running the country.

I think he’s just translating the two stories below each of his tweets, the first from AS, the second from ESPN.

Interesting to note further on in his thread that Tite is really not a fan of Bolsonaro. A Brazilian friend was telling me that the Brazil jersey has become a bit of a calling card of the Bolsonaro supporters, jumping on the nationalism of it (the same way the eeejits jumping on the anti-mask stuff here were all draped in flags I guess), and has created a bit of a divide about people’s support/perception of the team. (or at least this is how things are in São Paulo anyway according to her).

Must be very annoying for Tite if he’s anti-Bolsonaro to have all these right wing fans being their main supporters right now, and to be stuck dealing with this almost-certainly-Bolsonaro populism move. I hope they’re able to stick it out and boycott the tournament.

Girly Gal

gimli2112 wrote: »

something that's been on my mind for a while but at 1/2 time in the Europa League final I popped into the Utd thread. While they were one down and playing poorly the thread was still very much positive. We can win this, we're playing poorly but will kick on type of comments.

I contrast this to our thread 5 minutes into a league game and we want to sell Mane, get rid of the owners and pondering if Klopp has run his course. It's just an observation but sometimes I wish we could all calm down.

The Utd thread melted down at full time and that's fine but we don't have to give up before it's over.

It's the difference in expectation levels, United fans are happy to be in the mix for trophies again, because they all know deep down Ole is not good enough. We on the other hand have just experienced out most successful few seasons for a long time and looked set to have another good season but it turned out to be an extremely frustrating season to say the least, so when the likes of Mane was killing yet another move, all that frustration was boiling over as we all know he and the team in general can play much better.

Riesen_Meal

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1401180004080402433?s=20

Are these warm up matches?

Doesn't look like much boycotting going on...

Agent Coulson

World Cup qualifiers

Brazil won 2 - 0 against Ecuador

Ali played full game, Bobby played the last 20 minutes and Fab played the last 5 minutes.

~Rebel~

Fieldog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/1401180004080402433?s=20

Are these warm up matches?

Doesn't look like much boycotting going on...

That was a World Cup qualification match.

The boycott/reluctance to play is in relation to the Copa America.

mormank

gimli2112 wrote: »

something that's been on my mind for a while but at 1/2 time in the Europa League final I popped into the Utd thread. While they were one down and playing poorly the thread was still very much positive. We can win this, we're playing poorly but will kick on type of comments.

I contrast this to our thread 5 minutes into a league game and we want to sell Mane, get rid of the owners and pondering if Klopp has run his course. It's just an observation but sometimes I wish we could all calm down.

The Utd thread melted down at full time and that's fine but we don't have to give up before it's over.

That's only because they spent the entire season going behind in games and winning anyway. In fact they didn't even start playing until they conceded in most games. It's not because they have become model fans all of a sudden. Let's never look at that lot as an example of how to behave.

That lot... Lol.... They're the same as us FFS... Mostly grand.

mormank

Augeo wrote: »

That lot... Lol.... They're the same as us FFS... Mostly grand.

I think you'll find that growing up winning everything around you breeds a different attitude to someone who has grown up having their main rivals winning everything. So let's say that lot of a certain age. :P

The White Wolf

Augeo wrote: »

That lot... Lol.... They're the same as us FFS... Mostly grand.

Anyone under the age of 35 will find it hard to describe them as mildly more than tolerable. :pac:

Enzokk

gimli2112 wrote: »

something that's been on my mind for a while but at 1/2 time in the Europa League final I popped into the Utd thread. While they were one down and playing poorly the thread was still very much positive. We can win this, we're playing poorly but will kick on type of comments.

I contrast this to our thread 5 minutes into a league game and we want to sell Mane, get rid of the owners and pondering if Klopp has run his course. It's just an observation but sometimes I wish we could all calm down.

The Utd thread melted down at full time and that's fine but we don't have to give up before it's over.

A lot of it has to do with the way United played the past season. There were many games where they were behind and were terrible at half time, then came back and won the game. That is a good trait to have as a team, however it means you are not playing well though and if you don't have a bit of luck then coming from behind to win is drawing or losing, which affects confidence.

I wouldn't bother too much about it, next season may be different. They may end up losing points from winning positions instead of what they did this year. They are still a limited squad with a limited manager.

Fitz*

Hypothetically speaking, would fans be happy if Sancho came in this summer and Liverpool sold Sadio Mane?

And for arguments sake, let's say that Liverpool make 5m net profit from the two transfers that would be offset against the jump in wages that Sancho would get.

mightyreds

No Mbappe for mane probably, mane I think will come back as good as ever next year. I'd like a no.9 who can take any chance he's given, bring Fowler back

~Rebel~

Fitz* wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, would fans be happy if Sancho came in this summer and Liverpool sold Sadio Mane?

And for arguments sake, let's say that Liverpool make 5m net profit from the two transfers that would be offset against the jump in wages that Sancho would get.

Yeah, I mean, if it worked out equal it’d be a good swap - a 21 year old for a 29 year old. Positionally, it’d be a bit awkward though, as Sancho is most comfortable in Salah’s position - but then again so was Mane till we swapped him across. He’s a right footer too, so it’d be the same sort of transition.

Salah, Bobby, Jota, Sancho looks a much healthier age profile than we have at present.

I’d say Sancho will cost a fair more than Mane would get though.

Damien360

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I’d say Sancho will cost a fair more than Mane would get though.

Rumoured 80m Stg plus for Sancho. That’s an awful lot of money. Mane might command 50-60m but who in europe has that money and we ain’t going to sell him to another PL team. That’s before wages and the English player hype train arrives.

~Rebel~

Damien360 wrote: »

Rumoured 80m Stg plus for Sancho. That’s an awful lot of money. Mane might command 50-60m but who in europe has that money and we ain’t going to sell him to another PL team. That’s before wages and the English player hype train arrives.

Yeah... I’d be surprised to see anyone at sort of price arrive this summer, or any of the main 3 lads up front leave. Think it’ll just be a few mid-tier fringe lads leaving, and a few up-and-comers joining. Which is grand.

Fitz*

Fitz* wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, would fans be happy if Sancho came in this summer and Liverpool sold Sadio Mane?

And for arguments sake, let's say that Liverpool make 5m net profit from the two transfers that would be offset against the jump in wages that Sancho would get.

Most definitely, at 29 mane won't be getting any better. Recapturing his peak form/game isn't guaranteed either.
No way are we getting Sancho & net profit.
For a young lad Sancho is incredible.

Mane won't be sold though.

Agent Coulson

Watford seem interested in taking Elliott on loan next season.

Mane scored one and assisted Sarr yesterday in a 3-1 friendly win for Senegal.

There also seem to be a host of clubs looking to take Neco Williams on loan next season.

Cyrus

Fitz* wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, would fans be happy if Sancho came in this summer and Liverpool sold Sadio Mane?

And for arguments sake, let's say that Liverpool make 5m net profit from the two transfers that would be offset against the jump in wages that Sancho would get.

If we managed to make something even close to that work I'd be shocked!

davyboy1975

Wilson being linked with leeds is an interesting one in terms of our raphinhia links

theoneeyedman

Buendia off to Villa.

Costly enough at 30 million +

Would have liked to see us go for him last year after Norwich were relegated, but didn't happen (someone outlined why here last week).

Still a good player, very talented, be interesting how he fits into Villa, and what happens now with Grealish too.

Enzokk

Seems like Gini is off to PSG and not Barcelona,

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1401479960821473282?s=20

Good for him, getting more than double what Barcelona offered. He deserves a payrise and if Qatar is willing to stump up then so be it.