Murder at the Cottage | Sky

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707454#Comment_117707454

you read comments online that the Bantry Garda who is (quietly) considered a suspect drove a similar fiesta -- but it's impossible to know how accurate that is really -- particularly because, as you point out, the brain-trust-siochana did fcuk all actual investigating other than "I knew that lanky brit was a wrong 'un"

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707859#Comment_117707859

The first time I ever came across that was in an article by conspiracy theorist Gemma O'Doherty, fresh after another of her 'investigations' which concluded that Mary Boyle was murdered by a Fianna Fail politician and the local gardai said 'sure that's grand, Fianna Fail are allowed the odd child murder'. As with Sophie's murder, no evidence is offered.

Since that article, conspiracy theorists seem to have taken ownership of the case.

CowgirlBoots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707104#Comment_117707104

No, it wouldn't make sense for a rational person. But if this person had just carried out a frenzied, insane attack on a woman by bashing her brains out with a rock/concrete block for no apparent reason I doubt they were in a rational state of mind. They could have been high on drugs, inebriated, a combination of both, or just plain insane.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707584#Comment_117707584

Curse the inability to partially quote posts in the new format. I was replying mostly to the last paragraph. The south route is about 7.3 km vs 4.2km and would be a much busier road for traffic.

The point I was trying to make was on the night of the 22nd/23rd December would the murderer have taken the shorter, less travelled route away from the murder scene where they were less likely to be seen or would they take the longer, more travelled route where they were more likely to be seen.

The implication being that if Marie Farrell did see someone at Ballyrisode / Kealfadda Bridge and if that person was indeed connected to the murder then it was more likely to be someone living or staying in that direction.

Even at that there is no evidence to connect the possible sighting with the murder, it could just as easily have been someone heading home from a party.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707965#Comment_117707965

Yes, that all makes sense. But if you were covered in blood you aren't going to go home in that state. Going north seems to bring you to a small harbour with houses around it but if you go south there's an isolated spot with plenty of access to shallow water and no houses. You could wade in and come back out relatively clean and it's more likely no one would see you at 3am.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707956#Comment_117707956

Yes, that's my thought too. In a panic you might think of getting as far away as possible and hiding out somewhere rather than heading back home and possibly being confronted with people asking why you are in a crazy, bloodstained state.

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707956#Comment_117707956

"inebriated on liquor?"

IB is that you? 😂

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707977#Comment_117707977

christ the quoting system in this thing is horrendous

anyway - again - how is one "covered in blood" that requires wading into the sea - but also leaves no trace along the road and that causes none of one's own DNA to deposit at the scene?

CowgirlBoots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708134#Comment_117708134

Fixed it for you.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707977#Comment_117707977

I wouldn't call the main Schull to Goleen road isolated.

Looking at geohiveve 1995 and 2000 layers after turning left towards the harbour at the T junction, it looks like there might only have been one small cottage on the right, just before the harbour. Turning right, away from the harbour, there are streams within 300 metres diversion, staying on L roads which would have not passed any more houses and which would have been far more isolated.

Why anyone with local knowledge would walk the longest way around, add more than 3km to their journey, mostly on busier 'main' roads and walk into the sea where they might be seen from the main road is beyond me. The scenario just doesn't make sense.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707992#Comment_117707992

Then it would make even less sense to head for the two main roads in the area that are most likely to have traffic and have more houses along them.

CowgirlBoots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708230#Comment_117708230

Fits the narrative then because nothing about any of this makes any sense.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708145#Comment_117708145

It’s the victim’s blood, you don’t have to leave DNA to get covered in blood. We don’t know if the killer left no DNA in any case,none was detected but that is different.

There’s no evidence the killer stepped into the pool of blood around her head, most of that would have taken some time after the attack to accumulate. You would be talking about significant blood spatter on the front of the clothes and probably fine spray on the hands and face. Possibly some drips on the back of the clothes if a weapon was held over the head. Enough to make you look like you just killed someone but not enough that you would leave a drip trail along the road. Even if you did leave drops along the road, they aren’t going to pour luminol all the way along a gravel track.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708230#Comment_117708230

I think the killer drove there. The gate at the end of the lane was open but had blood smudges on it. This was past where the body was discovered. It looks like she ran to the gate but was too disorientated or wounded to climb it. When Shirley Foster drove out the next morning the gate must have been open or she would have stopped the car right where the body was. I find it hard to believe she saw the body then opened the gate to continue driving on.

So, in this scenario, Sophie sees lights on the lane or hears the gate being opened and closed, gets out of bed to see who it is. She puts on her boots and dressing gown, goes out the door to confront the person and is chased towards the gate. The killer opens the gate to drive out and leaves it open. Knowing that there is unlikely to be any traffic on the road to Goleen at 3am on a Sunday night, he drives to the inlet where he knows you can walk into the sea after parking off the main road.

Deeec

The killer wading into the sea/water to clean themselves in darkness on the 23rd Dec - the depths of winter - I think this is very unlikely.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708618#Comment_117708618

Just a couple of days later over 100 people swam in the Christmas Swim in speedos and swimsuits. What’s the alternative? If you go to a stream you’d probably have to lie down face-first in it.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708637#Comment_117708637

LOL - Was the killer prepared for this and bought his speedos and towels with him so he could strip off to clean himself! 😀

If he waded into the cold freezing water on the 23rd of December the gardai should have also checked hospitals for anyone suffering from pneumonia.

A swim on christmas morning where you have the correct gear is a completely different situation to wading into water to clean yourself after murdering someone.

NotorietyH

To me the most likely reason to head to the Kealfadda bridge was to dispose of the hatchet that was missing from Sophie's house and never recovered, likely used in the initial attack.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708727#Comment_117708727

Very good point - I wonder if the gardai done a search of this area.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708727#Comment_117708727

You're making a number of assumptions.

1 A hatchet was used in the attack.

2 Marie Farrell did see someone at the bridge.

3 That person was the murderer.

All assumptions should be subject to proof, otherwise they are nothing more than wild speculation.

Surely the area around the bridge would have been thoroughly searched in the circumstances.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708676#Comment_117708676

If they lived nearby they would be out of their clothes and in the shower or back in bed within minutes. It would be easier to explain coming in soaking wet than covered in blood.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708899#Comment_117708899

I think it is unlikely he walked home soaking wet or got in the car soaking wet. If it was IB it would make better sense for him to clean himself at home using an outside tap ( which Im sure he had as Ian and Jules were into gardening )rather than going to the bridge to clean up.

The reality is probably that there was no man at Kilfeada bridge - Can MF be believed?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707584#Comment_117707584

When IB took the West Cork team on a reconstruction of his trip to Sophie's house after hearing from Eddie Cassidy, they clearly went the southern route. He said to turn left to go down the lane to Sophie's house, from the northern route its a right turn.

It depends on which of Baileys versions you want to believe here.

Version 1;

After the call from Cassidy he and Jules drove to Alfie's house as he knew there was a French woman living nearby.

(Cassidy had said nothing about the nationality of the victim to Bailey)

He stopped Alfie’s partner, shirley at the junction of the lane with the Kealfadda Road to ask if she knew anything.

Version 2;

In the High Court, Bailey said he had driven down the road towards Kealfadda as he wanted to go to Toormore Post Office to try and find out information there but the fastest way from Bailey’s house to the Post Office is straight down the Toormore Road (R591), not a detour to the west via Kealfadda.

Shirley Foster's version;

Foster’s version is Bailey had already left the Kealfadda Road and was half way down the cul-de-sac leading towards Sophie’s home when she met him and she had to flag him down to stop to warn him of the Garda cordon, but he was in such a hurry he didn’t ask her anything and said something like

'I'm a reporter on press duty' and drove on .

His conflicting account of his actions on the morning and afternoon of the murder were the most damning for him.

You need a good memory if you lie.

Had Ian Bailey told the truth from the outset, and stuck to it, even if it meant saying "I can't remember" or " I don't know"

He would be a free man by now, one way or the other.

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707956#Comment_117707956

But supposedly the reason was to wash off blood in the open water. There was blood on her backdoor so after the attack the perp had already gone up to the house where there was water.

CowgirlBoots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709060#Comment_117709060

The "reason" isn't really known. It's all speculation. Likewise with the blood on the backdoor. Maybe they went to turn off the lights and shut the door. Odd behavior for a madman - but that's what some people think. Whatever the case this person was savvy enough not to leave any traces.

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704382#Comment_117704382

Presumably if Ian and Jules had just said we were asleep all night in bed together like Alfie did Ian wouldn't be a suspect.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708963#Comment_117708963

Can MF be believed? Judge Moran felt she could.

Firstly, she had no reason to think both JT and IB would admit he left that night, three weeks after she made her anonymous call. After his arrest he allegedly told Yvonne Ungerer that he was seen out on the road and that must have been when he got up during the night.

Secondly, he left out sleeping at the house beside where MF said she saw the same man at 7am Sunday when he gave his first statements. He was obviously worried about it though because he went to talk to the people in the house after finding out the gardai had been there, to see what they told them. He then went to the station to ask to amend his previous statements. To me, the logical explanation for this being 'forgotten' but still on his mind would be because he recognised the same van or driver passed him on both occasions. There is no way MF or the gardai could have known he was in that exact area of the village, away from his own home.

Third, at least two other people gave statements that they saw IB in Schull when MF said she saw the man in a similar long black coat. She couldn't have known that he would also confirm he was in the village (it's little more than one street) and her sighting of someone standing across the road while Sophie went about her business would be corroborated by other witnesses.

Fourth, there is convincing evidence she had been intimidated by IB. In his high court action she said he never mentioned that he knew about her getting into trouble in the UK with social welfare when he came into her shop. She went on to say there was no reason for him to mention it anyway as the case was completely dropped because it wasn't true. Unfortunately for MF, she had given a long explanation, on video to GSOC, of how she had left the UK to avoid prosecution and that the tip-off to social welfare had been true and was still outstanding.

If any one of MF’s sightings occurred at a time when IB was seen elsewhere, the entire case would probably collapse. Because MF’s statements were made early on and were contradicted by IB’s own accounts, they would have been useless without IB then changing his account himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707938#Comment_117707938

The first time I ever came across that was in an article by conspiracy theorist Gemma O'Doherty, fresh after another of her 'investigations' which concluded that Mary Boyle was murdered by a Fianna Fail politician

That is wrong. Gemma O'Doherty did not say Mary Boyle was murdered by an FF politician. I am not a Gemma fan but that is not what she said. In your rush to discredit Bailey narrative you are posting incorrect claims

Gemma O D is not any worse than the pathetic garda 'investigation'

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707085#Comment_117707085

Are you working for the gards by any chance??

Good question

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117709196#Comment_117709196

None of the above convinces me she is credible in anything she says - you have to face that she may be a spoofer. MF says it wasnt Ian Bailey she seen and she was forced into saying that it was. I really think she was at home in bed tucked up with her husband - she made the calls because she wanted to be involved in the excitement of what was happening and it spiralled badly for her. She now believes its a french man she seen in Schull.