Murder at the Cottage | Sky

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815205#Comment_117815205

*A citizen of Ireland

*My bad.....

Garlinge

Perhaps it was just to test out that all was well with the repair. But strange to be away that week before Christmas - a busy time for socialising and preparations for the big day and also to face the hassle of travel at a busy time of year and maybe weather issues. I know her son was with his father at that time but she had other family.

Caquas

An Irish solicitor gets to tell the President of France to drop dead. Frank Buttimer doesn't mince his words.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/21998418/

Caquas

I've been inclined to regard the case against IB as "not proven" but I now think there is a fatal weakness in the prosecution case.

I think everyone here would accept that IB would have no reason to go to Sophie's cottage that night if they had no relationship whatever i.e. if he was a stranger to her.

I know nothing about IB except what is in the media but everything I learned (especially from the excellent West Cork podcast) indicates that he is a braggart and an attention-seeker. It is inconceivable that IB would have said nothing to anyone about Sophie before her murder if he had a relationship of any sort with her - even the most innocent. Most tellingly, Bannadsidhe on this thread gave a very interesting and detailed account of her conversation with IB at a party at Alfie Lyons place a few months before the murder. IB rambled on at length about French film but did not mention that the woman next door was the wife of one of the most powerful men in the French film industry. Why? Because he didn't know her background.

Another example is this lenghty John Montague article in the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/mar/12/life1.lifemagazine10

IB worked for him as a gardener over many years and, as the article shows, they had many interactions, especially about poetry, and IB confided in him. Montague himself is a world-class name dropper (the first thing he tells us is the Empress of Japan had more time for him than Seamus Heaney!). And yet IB never mentioned Sophie to Montague

The Gardai went to great lengths to prove such a relationship without success. All they had was the recollection of a local handyman that he had introduced IB to Sophie some years before the murder but IB denies this and, even if the introduction had happened, there is no suggestion that this was anything more than an brief exchange of pleasantries.

From all this, I believe it is practically certain that IB had no relationship whatever to Sophie. I cannot believe that he just decided to trek for miles after midnight to her cottage to ... what? ... to receive her passionate embraces because.... well, she's French and she had a pair of wine glasses and, shure, we all know how those French lassies are!

No - if IB did not know Sophie personally, then he had no motive to visit her and we are being asked to believe he is a unique specimen - the one-off serial killer. (Yes, to his eternal shame he beat up Jules but that has nothing to do with murdering a total stranger)

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816590#Comment_117816590

Frank Buttimer is a great solicitor. If there was any solicitor or man you wanted in your corner, it would be him. He has my highest respect the way he has stood up to the French farce & the gards. Great man. Not only is he standing up for Bailey but hes standing up for the irish judicial system over the french. Unfortunately there isn't many solicitors like him around.

On top of this, he is having to deal with a clown of a Taoiseach licking the arse of this little French weasel promising him things that he should never do. This case shines a light on our spineless policitians, the arrogance of the french and the willingness of people to put aside due process and convict an innocent man based on flimsy evidence at best.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816712#Comment_117816712

I think this is ignoring the fact that in Jules' statement to Gardai on Feb 10th 1997, she said Ian said to her that he could see a light on Alfie's on the way home on the night of the murder and that he might go over there. That would bring him within 100m of Sophie's house. He would actually have to pass within a few metres of her back door. She also said he had some kind of premonition that something bad was going to happen. Jules denies saying these things but her revised statement was signed by her and it also led to IB changing his account of the night when confronted with it.

Several statements given after the murder claim IB siad he knew Sophie. The woman who played the part of Sophie for the Crimecall reconstruction said she thinks she remembers him saying to her that he met Sophie on the same walk they were filming on. He just walked up and approached them during filming. A journalist for the Guardian in the UK also made a statement that IB told him he knew Sophie.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815266#Comment_117815266

This thread would make a great IQ filter. Do you actually think I am NF? Who, I think, is British and lives in Belgium? My posts on the wage subsidy scheme last year all make total sense now. 🙄

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816847#Comment_117816847

She thinks she remembers... we're talking about a murder here and people 'think they remember'? Or remember stuff years later?

There is zero credible evidence of any connection between Bailey and Sophie, other than a possible very brief introduction while doing gardening work a year earlier (?) which I'm not totally convinced about but could have occurred.

He may have seen a light on in a different house, and may have been within 100 metres and then what?

He thought and saw a light on in Alfie's... a premonition of something bad happening? To whom? How? Why? How do you connect a light on in Alfie's to something bad happening to Sophie, except in some sort of retconning? Utter nonsense.

Had Ian Bailey been brainwashed, and seeing a light in Alfie's at a certain time and a certain combination of planetary alignments was the signal for him to kill someone?

This is so far removed from a motive or real evidence it's laughable.

Was there a light on in Alfie's? What was going on in Alfie's? We need to know. It's such utter nonsense you could just as plausibly argue that Ian seeing a light on in Alfie's at that hour was unusual full stop, and that's why he had a premonition of something bad. Absolutely zero part played in it by Ian Bailey.

A believable statement would be, that's strange, there's a light on in Alfie's, he didn't say anything about a party... maybe I'll check it out later.

Jules:Ah no Ian it's late, you've had a few already and there's lots to do with Christmas coming and you have to finish that article?

Ian: That ******** article.

A premonition? A light?

Pull the other one.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816937#Comment_117816937

Are you ok?

Esel

A believable statement would be, that's strange, there's a light on in Alfie's, he didn't say anything about a party... maybe I'll check it out later.

Jules:Ah no Ian it's late, you've had a few already and there's lots to do with Christmas coming and you have to finish that article?

Ian: That ******** article.

Jules: And you still have to cut the tree and kill those turkeys, plus the bonfire.

Ian: Those bloody turkeys!

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817061#Comment_117817061

Yes, or I wouldn't be on here trashing nonsense that deserves to be ridiculed.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817083#Comment_117817083

No he'd already killed the turkeys and cut down the tree in a pre-murder pagan ritual at that point.

He examined the entrails and that's what gave him his premonition.

He still had to complete the ritual with the bonfire though.

Case solved.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817092#Comment_117817092

It’s in the statements. I don’t think anyone claims IB ‘predicted’ the murder, I expect the gardai probably considereded it a pretext to go over to ‘Alfie’s’ ie. something’s not right, I better go over there and see if they are ok… There were no lights on at Alfie’s but there was a light on at Sophie’s.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817128#Comment_117817128

In the West Cork podcast Jules says he wouldn’t have had a bonfire, he tended to hoard things. Yet they both told the gardai they had a bonfire a few weeks earlier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816712#Comment_117816712

Could you find the post with the detailed account of the conversation at a party?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817212#Comment_117817212

If the light being on signalled that something bad or unusual was happening, its not a 'premonition'.

Or much of a pretext.

Like what was Ian going to do?

Why not just mention a party?

Its utter nonsense compltely lacking in believability.

So we come back to word games that obscure that there is zero motive, or credible evidence of anything other than a fleeting introduction between Bailey and Sophie.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816847#Comment_117816847

Jules Thomas has repeatedly said her statements were written under duress. With added paragraphs that she knows nothing about.

The Gards lied, falsified, and later destroyed sections of her statement(s)

Sadly, due to a corrupt Garda interrogation, JT statement(s) are as reliable as the Babe Farrell's.

Her statement(s) are not worth the paper they are wrote on - Dismiss them, and move on.

*Incidentally, the Babe Farrell reported similar corrupt interrogation methods used by the Gards to help refresh her memory too..... Just saying.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817472#Comment_117817472

I am beginning to see a pattern here, you read something that contradicts your opinion and random words of denial start to form on the keyboard. There’s no evidence the gardai did any of that, the statements were signed and neither made any complaints about their questioning either at the time or through their solicitors until years later. Ian discussed having this ‘premonition’ in the West Cork podcast and he mentioned it himself in his own Garda statements. In one of the more comical sections of the DPP ‘report’ they even seem to suggest he might have some way of tuning in to canine senses. Dogs in the wider Mizen area were reported to be barking, therefore his admission of having a premonition after apparently mentioning a light on at Alfie’s is in in no way incriminating. He was just sensing whatever the dogs were sensing, even though no one else ever said they felt **** was going down in a very specific place miles away because a dog was barking 😂

Does anyone know where hunts Hill actually is?

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817254#Comment_117817254

I quoted it in my post here on 28 July. (Sorry, the new site doesn’t show post numbers 🤨)

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816847#Comment_117816847

I regard the arrest of Jules Thomas as proof that the Gardai investigation had turned into a manhunt. They knew Jules had nothing to do with the murder so her arrest was illegal. They bullied her for many hours to get the statement although they knew it would never be accepted by the court. At that stage, the Gardai were desperate for anything to link IB to the murder yet they failed to link him to the victim, the most elementary element in any murder investigation.

But let’s suppose IB did hike over to Alfie Lyons place in the mistaken belief there was a party going on. What was his motive in that case: “oh, well, they’ve gone to bed, I bet that French woman next door would fancy the company of a total stranger at this hour of the morning and shure, if not. I can always just smash her brains in and Alfie can clear up the mess tomorrow”

there is no credible evidence that he knew Sophie. There are a couple of people claiming he admitted long after the murder to have known her but this is unreliable hearsay and it doesn’t answer my point - why would a loudmouth like IB tell no one before the murder that he knew this fascinating French woman. If he had mentioned this to anyone the Gardai would have heard about it and we know of at least two people to whom he would have certainly boasted about it.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817510#Comment_117817510

I never mentioned anything about Bailey's premonition?? Why are you churning that out? Go back and re-read the post.

JT has stated that she was asked to sign blank sheets of paper (quite strange you will agree..) She was arrested for murder although not interrogated for murder (again, rather strange you will agree?)

She has consistently stated that she felt pressured by the Gards during the illegal interrogation, they were putting words in her mouth, on top of telling her that Bailey had already confessed to the murder next door...

Fearing that she was going to be stitched up (like Bailey), and the real possibility of looking at a life changing prison sentence, maybe she wasn't prepared to call out the corrupt keystone cops right away....?

Put yourself in her shoes, she was illegally detained, lied to, manipulated and pressganged into believing her life was over. Its not rocket science.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816861#Comment_117816861

I really can't be arsed checking back on your posts.

Someone just said that you were outed as a journalist that had written on the case. I just threw a guess out.

But you are very much in his style of believing the garda version and refusing to contemplate any other scenario despite so many facts that would make it very very difficult for it to be IB.

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117816502#Comment_117816502

Never put what's "normal" to you into the context of someone else.

Many people despise Christmas and all the socialising.

Sophie picked this location because of the remoteness and because she could get away. She had also all but separated from her husband who already had a new girlfriend (who he moved in with 3 months later and had a baby with in 1997 too)

So Christmas jolliness would not have been on her list that year

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817767#Comment_117817767

Isn't this a bit like when a four year old comes in with chocolate all over their face and denies they ate any? The 'premonition' was in the statements, the 'getting out of bed an hour later', 'suggesting he might go over to Alfie's' were in there too, therefore if you want to claim they signed blank statements you have to explain why they are still talking about what they said in those statements that you claim were blank.

JT has not said she signed blank statements from anything I've read on the case. She had a solicitor there with her, do you really believe a solicitor advised their client to sign blank statements? Really?? She should have tried to sue the solicitor and not the state if that were even remotely true. She said they were 'additions' and also there were some 'omissions' from her statements. But they were read over and signed. GSOC found no evidence of tampering or additions to any of their statements.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817616#Comment_117817616

Neither of the arrests were unlawful, this was confirmed by GSOC:

3.11 From the material reviewed by GSOC in this investigation, it appears that there was a reasonable belief held by gardaí at that time that Ian Bailey and Jules Thomas were responsible for the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier. The arrests of both were therefore lawful. It appears to GSOC that the Custody Regulations were complied with in full by gardaí at that time in relation to both prisoners with both being offered access to a solicitor during their detention. GSOC is satisfied from its investigations that both were detained lawfully.

3.12 Nothing was noted in the documentary review conducted by GSOC that undermined the decision to arrest either Ian Bailey or Jules Thomas in any way and there is no information available to suggest that either constituted an unlawful arrest. It is further noted that the legality of this arrest has never been successfully challenged by either Mr. Bailey or Ms. Thomas at any stage since that date and that no complaint was made by either party to their solicitor at the time of their arrest or detention.

odyssey06

Werent the original interview pages with Jules deliberately cut from the Garda book of evidence?

Cant believe anyone putting any weight on what was allegedly contained in the interview Jules disowned.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117817212#Comment_117817212

Or he could have phoned Alfie. On the telephone Alfie had. In Alfie's house. Asked Alfie if everything was ok as he saw a light on, and received a feed of abuse for drunk calling Alfie at stupid o'clock to ask a stupid question.

dublin49

after 135 pages it comes down to :do you believe Bailey or not,I dont so think he did it ,others take a different view and thats fine.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117818104#Comment_117818104

Exactly. Unless the house was meant to be unoccupied / it is lived in by a vulnerable person on their own / elderly relation... adults dont call into other adults cos they see a light on after bedtime at night out of concern.