Murder at the Cottage | Sky

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888543#Comment_117888543

Moonunit is a simple intellect who thinks this is like a football team - you "support" your side no matter what.

It's tiresome but best to ignore, as his inchoate mind only harms the otherwise interesting discussion.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889169#Comment_117889169

Meeting someone? Very likely. But for what? Business or pleasure?

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888841#Comment_117888841

ironically another case absolutely arsed up by corrupt, bigoted police

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889202#Comment_117889202

God knows. Maybe both, maybe to break off a relationship.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888352#Comment_117888352

Now Moonie, lets have a little cop on around here..

I wasn't going to respond to such an infantile statement, but you really have to read the context of the post, and don't be picking out sentences that you can manipulate and twist into something else.

Would you class me as a Bailey supporter? Why?

Go over my previous posts, I have condemned him countless times for his attacks on JT.

I don't hold his drinking against him. Its his liver, can do as he pleases with it.

But what I won't stand for, is the absolute alienation of a man that hasn't been charged with one God Damn thing! We as a civilized society are entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise in a court of law... Give up that right and anarchy will prevail. Back to the stone age we go...

For 25yrs Bailey has been vilified over this - He may as well of been guilty of the crime. He was interviewed as a criminal last night, all his dirty laundry was aired in public again. It was an attempt to further smear his name among the public. In this country, he is 100% an innocent man, why attack him like that?

Remember, if the decent people of society don't stop this type of character assassination today, it could be you or me tomorrow.

I hope this post explains the fascinating insight into my mentality.... Feel free to share among all the snowflakes and politically correct merchants.

Incidentally... How many drinks had you taken before putting up that post.....?

sporina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888053#Comment_117888053

I'd love some clarification on this too? those of you who have been following this closely - do tell please?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889235#Comment_117889235

Yes maybe both. But Ian Bailey doesn't fit either of those

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889261#Comment_117889261

Surely you must agree that his history, and conviction, for serious domestic violence might have something to do with his 'alienation' and judgement of his character?

I think that's what Collette was getting at. According to him, his life would be peachy if he wasn't the main suspect in this murder case. Except people do judge domestic abusers quite harshly, plus he has a drink driving conviction and was arrested for drug driving in the last few years too. This was also put to him during his court cases, he claimed he had a happy life in West Cork until the papers slandered him. That is why his diaries were admitted into evidence, they showed he was in fact a very troubled person with drink and drug problems and a history of beating his partner, well before this murder.

His partner's daughters won't even visit the house if he is there according to Jules herself.

The quote is a direct quote from your post with the context above it. Do you still think it was a good idea to suggest she should be flogged for robust questioning over his history?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889113#Comment_117889113

Any OTHER drug related beatings? In 2006 Chris Farrell, Marie's husband, admitted assaulting a man in a car park in Schull, a man he said had pulled a gun on him some months previously. But that wasn't drug related because he said it was about something entirely different.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887788#Comment_117887788

They drove off and we don't know where they went. IB and Martin both agreed they were attempting to compromise the gardai so it is entirely possible Martin had stashed cannabis somewhere beforehand and got it before returning to the photographer. He admitted he demanded the cost of flights to the UK and the photographer also said he demanded €1K in cash for the story. So yes, I think it is entirely feasible and even likely that that is exactly what happened. Martin was also on tape giving gardai information on where people had stashed their drugs in their houses. This completely contradicts what he told the West Cork podcast, that he told the gardai he had no clue where to get hash so they had to get some for him.

All we can say for sure is that Martin was a liar and an informer and tried to use the murder investigation to enrich himself.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889029#Comment_117889029

I think this is another good question which was never asked or thoroughly investigated. Now 35 years on that's nearly impossible.

Was this trip of Sophie's planned ahead longer? Or more a short notice trip? Did somebody in Ireland she knew motivate her to take that trip? What I've heard is that the reason for the trip was to fix something with the heating at the house. However she could have done that later on, during a longer vacation trip to the house?

It's always been one of my speculations that due to the short notice trip, Sophie noticed or seen something she shouldn't have.

Also, the worst speculation, but one I wouldn't rule out, is what is if Sophie herself had a role in a local drug gang? ( I wouldn't believe that any moment, but I would also want that possibility ruled out with certainty )

drumm23

... and apparently the heating had already been fixed by the cleaner...

... but countering that is that she appeared to be sleeping in the smaller room because the main room was too cold ...

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889265#Comment_117889265

Yes - this is the Garda, first name J*hn I believe, now deceased, that has been proposed as a possible suspect. There is no evidence at all to back it up - apart from gossip and the thought that he might have driven a blue fiesta (though I suspect half or Ireland had blue fiestas in those days). There were also rumours that the boot imprint on Sophie's face was from a Doc Marten of the type issued to the Garda - again, there is nothing much to back this up (the idea that it matches Garda footwear).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889552#Comment_117889552

How do you know there's no evidence?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889552#Comment_117889552

I take it, you're referring to the Gard, living in Bantry, who had a blue Fiesta and is also speculated to possibly having had a brief sexual encounter with Sophie?

The Gards would certainly not have investigated one of their own, especially if they were in on it as well.

jimwallace197

I dont necessarily find it crazy that she came to the house at this particular time. It was already well known she didnt like the hustle & bustle of Paris(I can only imagine what its like in the build up to xmas) and maybe she needed to get away for a few days to clear her head before returning for xmas like she intended to. Her husband was relatively rich so in effect she was and that's what people like them do from time to time, a few days break here and there. As for her son, he was with her husbands family so nothing too unusual there. On top of this, she liked solitude so for me, the exact reason why she came isn't that important, she had many reasons to come.

As well as this, I dont think she intended to meet a lover there because she had asked many friends and relatives to come with her & they all refused. So I wouldn't put alot of heed in that. Also, there was zero evidence of anything having happened in the house.

In my opinion, it sounds like a individual who knew her through her complaints (a garda, neighbour) or a local in the community who knew a little bit about her and where she lived. There was probably rumors in the community that she was married twice at 38 (fairly scandalous in 90's Ireland) and had previously had a man or two over in the house. Who then thought they'd chance their arm, probably high on drink or drugs and when she rejected him, went berserk & once he hit her a couple of times, knew he'd have to finish her off or he was done for. This is the most plausible theory to me and would explain why the bottle of wine as well found nearby & the sighting of the speeding car away from the scene. Like someone knew they had gone too far this time and panicked or was so powerful in the area that they didnt care and knew they'd be fine.

Bailey (if he did do it) was the very opposite of someone who panicked. Despite being inebriated, goes to Kealfadda bridge to wash himself down, comes back home, makes Jules a cup of coffee, then proceeds to the scene to report on it. Almost like some sort of professional. For a man who never killed anyone before or after (that we know of:)), it just doesnt sound plausible to me that Bailey did it.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889394#Comment_117889394

I believe the story that her parents had told was that they had been over and the heating wasn't working. The plan was for Sophie to go over and fix the heating so that the family could use the home later on in the New Year.

The problem with the French side of things is that we have quite a bit of contradictory information. Not unusual as people might not be 100% truthful on the reasons for doing things and they don't really ever expect something like this to happen.

If she was asking everyone she knew to go with her then that is kind of a red flag but we don't really know if that's true or even why she was asking.

Same as we don't know if it's true that she was supposedly meeting some poet she was worried about meeting. We know for a fact that she DID visit the Ungerer's place and the husband WAS a writer and an artist so there is maybe a grain of truth there? People say she was going to meet a writer and she did but the writer we want to point a finger at is Bailey so we kind of have to twist it a bit.

From the French side we also have the story that she was intending to stay longer but after some discussion decided to return home on the 24th? That's another area of uncertainty. She arrives in Ireland on the 20th to stay until the 25th? She has a call with her husband on the evening of the 22nd. During this call it is decided that she will actually now fly back on the 24th. Some time between the end of that call and 10.30am on the 23rd she is murdered.

It's so difficult to get a good handle on what "facts" are actually facts and keep all the bits of information together. Most reports say that her plan was to return to France FOR Christmas but I am sure that an interview with her husband had him saying that she decided to change her flights to the 24th after some discussion. So we don't actually know even a basic point like this.

From the Husband “I am saying that in a telephone call that I received on the morning, my wife had told me she had finally intended to return to France on 24th December and that she had been able to get a seat on a flight arriving in Toulouse at 8.00pm, though she had initially anticipated returning on 25th December. There was no particular reason for this change of plan and it was agreed that I would meet her at Toulouse-Blagnac, on the arrival of the Aer Lingus flight. During the last telephone conversation Sophie did not make any reference to any particular plan."

Is that not a bit strange? That she brought her flight forward probably by less than 24 hours and probably to the first flight she was actually able to get out of there. Like, there's a bit of urgency to that, maybe?

yaboya1

Would she have been to return on the 25th? I didn't know there were flights out of Ireland on Christmas Day.

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889710#Comment_117889710

There were no flights from Ireland to Toulouse. I put up the 1996 timetable further back on this thread. So he either made that up for some sinister reason or didn't really give a proverbial what had happened to her.

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889840#Comment_117889840

How are you so certain she wasn't getting a connecting flight, from the UK maybe?

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888841#Comment_117888841

So is Prince Andrew. Will MoonUnit be clamouring for one of her precious royals to be extradited?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889394#Comment_117889394

We've had it impressed on us how much Sophie Toscan du Plantier loved nature, the quiet life etc., but we must remember she also spent time partying with the rich and famous. We often get a glimpse of this world when some rehabilitated actor or whatever tells an interviewer how they went through an awful time drinking non-stop while taking cocaine by the bucket load. The interviewers rarely say "wow that's a lot of illegal drugs, it must have cost a fortune, where did you get it?". As the answer would be something along the lines of; I could tell you but I'd have to shoot both of us.

We know the answer, from fiction since we've seen "Love/Hate" or "The Guard", from fact since we've heard of Michaella McCollum. That one where the not so naive girl is told by someone to go somewhere with a lot of luggage in which is concealed a lot of money, but don't worry because customs are taken care of. Then go somewhere where there will be an exchange for a big bag of drugs and while this is often the riskiest part where the deal goes wrong and people get killed, don't worry as it's all taken care of. Then we'll tell you when to head to the airport when our customs guys or guards are working and they'll wave you through. Don't worry nothing can go wrong.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888143#Comment_117888143

Just seems like a real wasted opportunity to me.

If you really wanted to trip the guy up you'd just ask him about the case. He was covering it in his capacity as a journalist after all. Maybe he would accidentally let something slip. Even ask him about who might have been in the car with MF or ask anything about the days leading up to the night of the crime etc.

I absolutely hated his attitude around the domestic violence in the West Cork podcast because he is just so eager to brush over it. There's no point in dragging that all out again since everybody knows what he did at this point and all he will say is "water under the bridge" or other BS.

This guy knows A LOT about the case. It seems that before all this he was actually a pretty good journalist? I wonder if there would have been more value in framing the interview as "we know you say you are innocent and we know there is no evidence against you but nobody is closer to this case than you so lets hear your theories".

So wasteful.

He's basically saying it was a Grada, now deceased, who killed her but that's somehow not the main headlines? Would have really like to see if she could tease a full theory out of him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889296#Comment_117889296

Do you still think it was a good idea to suggest she should be flogged for robust questioning over his history?

He writes his posts in an (admittedly long winded) fictional style, as in an old style detective novel or movie. You should not take his suggestion of flogging Collete Fitzpatrick literally.

Do you have a difficulty distinguishing between literal and figurative speech? It is quite a common condition and not a problem but you should be up front about it if that is the case.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889199#Comment_117889199

Are you for real? Moonie continually provides us with the facts of the case. I suppose there`s nothing worse than facts getting in the way of your "otherwise interesting discussion".

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889935#Comment_117889935

It's what it reveals about the attitude, not the intention. I highly doubt it was said hoping for her actually to be flogged. It's just an interesting thought to have and then put out there on the web in the context of the woman questioning him on domestic violence, while lambasting her for doing so. It's all a matter of public record and is relevant in the discussion on how his life has been affected by the case.

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889872#Comment_117889872

He says "Aer Lingus flight" in his statement brains.

drumm23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889626#Comment_117889626

Fair point.

I should have said "evidence that we know of"

MoonUnit75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890025#Comment_117890025

Right, but as far as I remember in the 90s you either booked flights through a travel agent or had to ring the airline yourself, and then the tickets themselves had to be posted out to you. If she was using a travel agent then she would not be booking a connecting flight herself, the travel agents took care of organising connecting flights. Most people used travel agents for this kind of thing in the 90s. So it's entirely possible that as far as she was concerned, or at least all she needed to tell her husband, was that she was catching an Aer Lingus flight home on a certain date.

Wombatman

Did the boiler repair guy \ plumber ever show up to fix the heating?