Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Mackwiss

starting to think that the murder happened just before sunrise on Monday. This according to the autopsy finding berries and nuts in her stomach and the photo from inside the cottage showing a loaf of bread ready to be sliced.

This would mean she saw the car at the gate, or could be the killer was opening the gate, she had no idea who it was and she went down to confront him? Things get out of hand and killer hits her on the head with the stone. Understands he needs to finish her off and gets the block to do so.

Realizes what he has done and drives madly away.

Murder around 8 to 8:30 AM
Ford seen on the bends at high speed around 9 AM
Body found at 10:30 AM

Locating that car and owner would answer so many questions... is there any kind of database that could be looked into to locate the vehicle? Or wouldn't that be publicly available

If the situation was sexually motivated, killer would have gone ahead with it and kill her afterwards, there's plenty of cases where perpetrators do this.

There's also some reports of a German ex-lover of hers that killed himself around 2000 stating he had done something terrible?

Bannasidhe

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Overall, this is really just a story of the Garda's making a mess of it. They thought they had their man and just ignored any other suspect. They probably realised they messed up the early evidence gathering and just wanted to close the case no matter what, coupled with the attention this was getting from the French police.

.

There's a bang of the Kerry Babies cock-up about the whole thing.

It really looks to me like local Gardaí were (hopefully this has stopped) allowed far too much leeway when it comes to investigating a serious crime, and for whatever reason - cover up and/or incompetence - create a mess from the very beginning.
It's like there was (is?) no system where trained investigators immediately assume authority and the only role of local Gardaí is to secure the scene. From then on the locals should be there to provide support to the investigators, not decide who dunnit.

Fr Tod Umptious

Cona44 wrote: »

Something about their cat getting into Sophie’s house and destroying the place in soot from chimney.

Also it’s interesting that Sophie ran away from the houses instead of towards Alfie’s. Was there a car inside the gate based on tire marks?
Why not run up to your neighbours?

Also, there was no lights on in the house. You would imaging if she got up during the night she would have left a light on. Could easily have been the morning time when this happened.

Was there two people involved in the murder? One got the slate whilst the other got the block?

I'm late to all this and I have not seen the TV show, I've only listened to the West Cork podcast.

In west Cork it does not get bright until close to 9am around 23rd December.
Having lights on in the house is necessary up 'till at least 9am if not later.
So the theory that it happened in the morning rater than the night because there was no light on in the house does not hold up.

milehip

Joe Don Dante wrote: »

Jeremy Iorns, he would have been 47 then and a known womaniser

Those French birds are goers!

robwen

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1408320009504542722?s=19

Loafing Oaf

robwen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1408320009504542722?s=19

gurave mille amorogut

Not sure channeling Gregory Campbell is the way to gain sympathy among the plain people of Ireland...

BnB

I happened to listen to the West Cork Podcast just a few weeks ago so it was all fairly fresh in my head before watching the Sky Documentary this week. My views on the program and some of the characters involved:

The West Cork Podcast is a vastly superior piece of work in comparison to the documentary. There was very little (if anything) that I learnt new from the documentary. All I really got from it was that it put a face to some of the characters that I wouldn't have known before.

It might sound harsh to say but, even if he is not guilty, I don't feel any pity whatsoever for Bailey. He beat up his partner 3 times including putting her in the hospital twice. I believe that he has absolutely loved all the attention that has come from all this. He has never tried to fade into the background in any way and has always kept himself in the limelight delighted to give interviews, ring radio shows, write letters to newspapers etc.

Bailey is undoubtedly an alcoholic

After listening to the Podcast, I felt really sorry for Jules. She has continued to provide a home (remember, he has nothing himself) for a man who has beat her up three times. I know she has now finally thrown him out now, but why did she let him stay for 20 odd years. After watching the documentary, I felt a lot less sorry for her. She never really seemed happy with him and most of the time she seemed to be really really (rightly) p1ssed off with him when he was being a complete drunken ar5ehole. To be honest with you, I just can't understand her at all.

I wouldn't believe a breath out of Marie Farrell's mouth, either in favor of or against Bailey. She should be charged with and jailed for wasting Garda time/perverting the course of justice.

The one thing that cannot be explained away is the scratches on his hand which, even though we don't have pictures, he acknowledges that he had. His Christmas tree and Turkey excuse is BS. We reared Turkeys growing up and I saw hundreds of Turkeys meet their end on Christmas week and no matter what you did, you would not get a scratch from them. They would flap their wings like hell but not scratch with their feet or beaks.

The French Justice System is utterly Nuts. Thinking they can charge and find Bailey guilty for murder in Ireland based on an old law they used for controlling their colonies. Arrogant f**kers.

I still believe that he's guilty

I told ya

Have listened to 3 of the podcasts and watched 2 of the Sky programmes.

IB did himself no favors and brought a lot upon himself. MF, I don't know what to think of her.

JS does not appear to be asking the Gardai the hard questions. The Super is allowed to talk about IB and generally waffle on.

As I understand it, at the time, the Super was the senior Garda in the District. He is the investigating officer although the day to day work is delegated to other ranks assisted by the Technical Bureau and the Pathologist. He is responsible for the proper conduct of the investigation.

Does not appear to be asked any of the hard questions. What orders did you give when first informed? We know the scene was not preserved. But why? Did it not become apparent early on in the investigation that there were problems? What actions did you take. Why did evidence go missing on your watch? Why are people claiming that Gardai under your command were bribed with money and drugs?

Why was Jules Thomas arrested on suspicion of murder? Any thing to say about the DPP stating that her arrest was unlawful? About her Solicitors complaining to the DPP?

I suppose the answer is that he wouldn't take part if the hard questions were asked.

You could always keep listing the questions and keep stating that he refused to offer any answers.

Unfortunately, I think that without a confession this case will not be solved.

Mackinac

Watched the first episode of Murder at the Cottage last night, found it a bit slow but will persevere.
A couple of things caught my attention.
Why did she run towards the road when surely it would have been quicker to go to one of the neighbours houses?
If Sophie was being chased by an attacker from inside her house I don’t think she would have stopped to put on her boots. I think she went outside to chase someone away from the cottage.
I had read that Sophie was suspicious that someone had been in her house whilst she wasn’t there, she thought the bath may have used. I was wondering if a couple having an affair had used the cottage as a meeting point whilst it was unoccupied. Possibly the couple wanted to hook up before Christmas so head up to the cottage as they expect it to be empty. Sophie heard noises downstairs, got out of bed, put on her boots and grabbed something to defend herself, meanwhile the couple start to make a retreat down the lane. Sophie goes after them and a struggle ensues.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^^

i don't think she was chased i reckon all the interaction happened down by the gate

as for a couple using the cottage for an affair?? nah

if anything maybe a local hobo..but surely he/she would have been caught by now

Loafing Oaf

milehip wrote: »

Those French birds are goers!

TBH, a lot of the speculation about Sophie Toscan Du Plantier's personal life in this thread seems to be echoing that stereotype.

I told ya

Just a bit of information, talking to a person familiar with the area. Alife Lyons died in April.

JimmyVik

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Quick trip to France would solve that problem for him!

Being serious.
It does seem, while he did himself no favours with putting his name out there and does seem to really like the sound of his own voice, he had no motivate, atleast none that was ever established, to want to kill her. It was questionable if he ever even met her and while I know that doesn't mean he definitely didn't kill her, it greatly reduces the likelihood. Its incredibly rare for someone to just wake up some night and randomly go kill someone for no reason. If they were having an affair etc, they really managed to keep that a secret! If it was to create a story and be the big fish in a small journalist pond, he would have really jumped in the deep end there.

Overall, this is really just a story of the Garda's making a mess of it. They thought they had their man and just ignored any other suspect. They probably realised they messed up the early evidence gathering and just wanted to close the case no matter what, coupled with the attention this was getting from the French police.

Question, why are the French allowed, try and convict a person for a crime that was not committed in their jurisdiction? Did this action not undermine the Garda and Irish Justice system?
Ian Bailey is now technically a convicted murderer and as someone said earlier, it will be interesting to see how the Netflix will take this.

My own opinion is that when he was a suspect he thought they would eventually go elsewhere after not being able to prove he did it (well because they couldnt if he didnt do it).
And after that he was planning a book something like "My nightmare as a murder suspect", so he played it for all it was worth.


It backfired because of lazy incompetent police work and media frenzy and he is where he is now.

JimmyVik

SoulWriter wrote: »

In relation to the blood on the door of Sophies house. Sheridan says it was someone opening the door who had blood on their knuckle. Sophie had a cut at the base of her index finger shown in the doc at 9.35 mins in. Maybe she tried to get back in but was pulled back and then ran. Her hand is all brusided too was a block dropped on it? Or maybe she hit the killer in self defense.

I any normal crime investigation that blood would be swabbed and the door kept in case future advances in technology could be used. Which it turns out would have been the case actually.

Mackinac

JimmyVik wrote: »

I any normal crime investigation that blood would be swabbed and the door kept in case future advances in technology could be used. Which it turns out would have been the case actually.

Were all the fingerprints and DNA taken from the house explained and accounted for or were there any unknown ones?

chooseusername

I told ya wrote: »

Just a bit of information, talking to a person familiar with the area. Alife Lyons died in April.

That's further back in the thread,
House for sale now;
https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/mapArea/houses?showMap=true&geoSearchType=BBOX&top=51.55456475352193&left=-9.738432626020767&right=-9.602470203532505&bottom=51.49935674663473&mapView=true#3182114

I told ya

chooseusername wrote: »

That's further back in the thread,
House for sale now;
https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/mapArea/houses?showMap=true&geoSearchType=BBOX&top=51.55456475352193&left=-9.738432626020767&right=-9.602470203532505&bottom=51.49935674663473&mapView=true#3182114

Thanks. Clearly missed that.

notahappycamper

robwen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1408320009504542722?s=19

Is this definitely IB’s account? He needs to get himself verified!

Creamy Goodness

notahappycamper wrote: »

Is this definitely IB’s account? He needs to get himself verified!

There's no need, an imposter would never be that good at writing as IB as IB himself would.

fryup

chooseusername wrote: »

House for sale now;
https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/mapArea/houses?showMap=true&geoSearchType=BBOX&top=51.55456475352193&left=-9.738432626020767&right=-9.602470203532505&bottom=51.49935674663473&mapView=true#3182114

nice house not a bad price either, but don't think i'd fancy living so close to a murder scene..might attract too much macabre interest from wannabe columbo's

* just did a google streetview meander down the local boreen, and there's no way on this earth you'd find that house without having local knowledge...and back in 96 before satnav not a chance...it had to be local who did it or someone who was there on a previous occasion

I told ya

fryup wrote: »

nice house not a bad price either, but don't think i'd fancy living so close to a murder scene..might attract too much macabre interest from wannabe columbo's

* just did a google streetview meander down the local boreen, and there's no way on this earth you'd find that house without having local knowledge...and back in 96 before satnav not a chance...it had to be local who did it or someone who was there on a previous occasion

I'm inclined to agree with you re: someone local.

Talk of a hitman /prof kill doesn't seem right. You would expect a hitman to be clinical.

Being struck 50 times makes it sound like it's personal. I would assume that would have to leave some evidence behind.

I read somewhere that a local man said that around 7.30 am on his way to work that he was overtaken by a car at speed being driven dangerously. I wonder was that ever followed up. The local said he didn't recognise the car. Could be something, maybe nothing.

Creamy Goodness

I told ya wrote: »

I read somewhere that a local man said that around 7.30 am on his way to work that he was overtaken by a car at speed being driven dangerously. I wonder was that ever followed up. The local said he didn't recognise the car. Could be something, maybe nothing.

That's the blue ford (think fiesta) with red reg plate that was a good topic of discussion a few pages back. I'm of the firm believe that whoever was driving that car has a lot more knowledge on this and it's awful nothing came of it.

odyssey06

I told ya wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with you re: someone local.
Talk of a hitman /prof kill doesn't seem right. You would expect a hitman to be clinical.
Being struck 50 times makes it sound like it's personal. I would assume that would have to leave some evidence behind.

Well, the last thing I'd expect a hitman hired in this case to do is make it look like a clinical mafia style hit because then it would point towards the husband hiring someone in such an obvious way even to the Gardai here.

No, they would make it look more like a robbery \ assault that went out of control scenario.
It would have to have some element of 'messiness'.

But this seems too far to the other extreme.

Deeec

fryup wrote: »

nice house not a bad price either, but don't think i'd fancy living so close to a murder scene..might attract too much macabre interest from wannabe columbo's

* just did a google streetview meander down the local boreen, and there's no way on this earth you'd find that house without having local knowledge...and back in 96 before satnav not a chance...it had to be local who did it or someone who was there on a previous occasion

It would be very easy to find if you had been there before. If the murder was planned research would have been done on where the house was. The murderer wouldnt have needed local knowledge to pull this off. I dont see the location of the house as an indication that the murderer was local.

A rural location like that is the perfect location for a murder.

thecretinhop

this was outright rage. rejection. maybe humiliation. if i cant have her noone else will.
how about the culprit has a few drinks drives down. he buys french wine to impress her she wants to go back to bed its over etc leave me alone.
were any tire tracks recorded i heard on podcast feet plaster cud not set fk me so incompetent..

monkeybutter

fryup wrote: »

nice house not a bad price either, but don't think i'd fancy living so close to a murder scene..might attract too much macabre interest from wannabe columbo's

* just did a google streetview meander down the local boreen, and there's no way on this earth you'd find that house without having local knowledge...and back in 96 before satnav not a chance...it had to be local who did it or someone who was there on a previous occasion

Don't even need a map, but there were maps back then I believe



Just simple directions will get you there



1. Take the road west out of schull

2. turn right at Kealfadda bridge, before the OSKA store

3. second left road



easy peasy


it was harder to find stuff in a city than out in the country

jimwallace197

odyssey06 wrote: »

Well, the last thing I'd expect a hitman hired in this case to do is make it look like a clinical mafia style hit. Make it look more like a robbery gone wrong scenario.

But this seems too far to the other extreme.

I think a hitmans main concerns are getting in and out cleanly & silently. No witnesses and and no dna/fingerprints etc. How the crime scene will look to garda siochana would be low down on the list of priorities I'd say. I'd imagine a silencer being used to put a bullet in her head would be the preferred method & in a location more isolated than where she was was.

I really dont think the crime scene would have ended up like it was if it was a hitman and if he was staging it or covering it up, why didnt he move her body back to the house where it would have been another few days before she was found. Buying himself a lot more time.

The manner of the death and the location of the body leads me to believe it was definitely a crime in the heat of the moment by someone possibly rejected who is most likely local but definitely Irish. Someone not used to killing and who was probably high on drink or drugs at the time.

I told ya

odyssey06 wrote: »

Well, the last thing I'd expect a hitman hired in this case to do is make it look like a clinical mafia style hit because then it would point towards the husband hiring someone in such an obvious way even to the Gardai here.

No, they would make it look more like a robbery \ assault that went out of control scenario.
It would have to have some element of 'messiness'.

But this seems too far to the other extreme.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the hitman trade:). Could be a woman warning her off her husband/partner and got out of hand.

All joking aside, I don't know. I would suspect that a lot of people's view would be coloured by what they see on TV/films, read in books, etc.

In a lot of cases the facts of what happened are not spectacular.

Shocking that the Gardai are never held to account.

notahappycamper

The DNA found on the laces iirc by the French pathologist of a male. Can no more be done on that I wonder? It was mentioned in the West Cork podcast.

Mackinac

jimwallace197 wrote: »

I think a hitmans main concerns are getting in and out cleanly & silently. No witnesses and and no dna/fingerprints etc. How the crime scene will look to garda siochana would be low down on the list of priorities I'd say. I'd imagine a silencer being used to put a bullet in her head would be the preferred method & in a location more isolated than where she was was.

I really dont think the crime scene would have ended up like it was if it was a hitman and if he was staging it or covering it up, why didnt he move her body back to the house where it would have been another few days before she was found. Buying himself a lot more time.

The manner of the death and the location of the body leads me to believe it was definitely a crime in the heat of the moment by someone possibly rejected who is most likely local but definitely Irish. Someone not used to killing and who was probably high on drink or drugs at the time.

Totally agree that this was a heat of the moment crime and not planned.
Have thought there was a man and a woman involved who have both been covering up for one another.