Murder at the Cottage | Sky

OwlsZat

AGS knew when they surveyed the scene. Fiesta seen speeding away. Doc Martin boot mark beside the body. French police want to help, no thanks. Pathologist says to move the body. No thanks. It's Bailey, show us your proof. Sorry we disposed of all that evidence but we definitely had it. Small town cops protecting small town cops. They will take it to the grave. Love to see Dwyer and Bailey take a live lie detector test. Now that would be TV!

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989574#Comment_117989574

I don't know if you are kidding or not with your speculative theories. Those you mention seem very far fetched indeed!! A bullet in the brain would be the 'RA' method. In cold blood. Witness the McCabe shooting. Major British drug traffickers were known to land huge shipments of Cocaine destined for European markets along the West Cork coast at that time. Did Sophie perhaps come into conflict with one or more of their locally based facilitators? A large number of English ex-pats reside in the area. It's a theory that should not be discounted completely, I suppose, but is pretty outlandish. Look, given the exact nature of her killing, this has the hallmark of a crime of passion committed by an enraged, rebuffed and probably psychotic individual acting completely alone who, for various reasons, managed to avoid capture and may well be still living in the local community.

mamboozle

I don't believe for a minute there has ever been collusion in murder in AGS. They(we) are simply not able to carry out black ops like the murder of someone like Pat Finucane because of the independence of the ordinary Guard. Maurice McCabe is almost proof of this. So the idea that there are Guards who know what really happened is naive. I can easily undersrtand a Gardai cover up where most of the local Guards don't realise that they're being used. That's what this looks like.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990848#Comment_117990848

I am not kidding, I am just speculating as everyone else however far fetched it is. I also considered that since she and her husband were producers, maybe the killing was motivated by somebody not liking or taking offense in their work. I also had a look at her husband's work, but found nothing that would arouse the interests and fantasies of extremists, or at least nothing that came to my attention.

However the speculation you're describing sounds more likely. As I have written so often before, the main reasons for murder are either financial, sexual, or drug related matters. She's interfering in my drug business, am I losing large amounts of money because of her, or doesn't she want to sleep with me (anymore)? She needs to be out of the way thinks the killer..... I still believe it's one of these three motives or a combination of it.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990636#Comment_117990636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990688#Comment_117990688

The killer was/is a possible psychopath or, at least, a sociopath. It would be unlikely he would exhibit any emotional distress, agitation or changed patterns of behaviour even after committing such a terrible act. He would be calmness personified, pottering about in the kitchen before brewing a morning cuppa for his sleeping partner upstairs.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989574#Comment_117989574

Also if it was Garda cover-up, what were they covering up for and why? The sexual intentions of their fellow officer from Bantry, or their involvement in drug trafficking?

If it was purely the former, I don't find it plausible that the guards spontaneously instigated a massive plot to cover up for him and frame Bailey. Is there a history of them doing such a thing to cover up for other individual 'bad apples' in the force? Whatever reputational damage they would suffer if it emerged that one of their number did such a terrible thing on his own bat would surely be dwarfed by that if it came out that they had engaged in an extensive campaign of witness tampering, destruction of evidence etc. to conceal the crime.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990947#Comment_117990947

you geezers always want to drag us back to was she hit with a fence post or my mother's walking stick, when we already have a number of court cases where someone has been convicted in the public eye. looks to me like there's a vested interest. No worries, we've loads of time

mamboozle

Oh btw if there is anyone I haven't offended I'm sorry

how could I offend mr. lovely, mr agreable tinytobe. I call him Father T

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991014#Comment_117991014

I don't really understand what you call offensive here? You know the old saying, "I've been offended far worse by people far better than yourself".....

Also I am certainly not Father Ted, - the actor is long dead as far as I know.

Everything is just a speculation here, exploring possible motives and ability to kill. Essentially, we have nothing to pin anything on anybody. Theoretically any of us here could have done it, given one was alive and capable to lift a cavity block back in 1996.

lintdrummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117988157#Comment_117988157

It's been stated numerous times in this thread that the Gardaí confirmed the house was locked up. Here is a post that claims it was Superintendent JP Twomey that stated this, as reported by the French Magazine Paris Match:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947611#Comment_117947611

I can't find this article, Google results for Paris Match are all in French, perhaps @tibruit has a link?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990810#Comment_117990810

Agree

I also don't think it was a "huge cover up", there were likely a few key players who knew they were protecting one of their own, some ineptitude thrown into the mix, lower rank lads just doing what they were told and a VERY convenient loudmouthed journo who knew to much and drank too much for the perfect fall guy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990170#Comment_117990170

Well, others know about this gard so your grand. Still doesn't mean it will ever come to light as it should unfortunately. Like others have said, it's basically hearsay in terms of evidence. Doesn't make it any less true, just hard to prove.

Think I quoted the wrong person there sorry!!

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991014#Comment_117991014

There's very few on here have been offended by your childish attempts at acerbic wit.

But to quote yourself;

" No worries, we've loads of time"

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991816#Comment_117991816

Of course you have and will be again. We've loads of time

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991325#Comment_117991325

A few key players protecting one of their own. Is that business as usual?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990810#Comment_117990810

AGS knew when they surveyed the scene. Fiesta seen speeding away. Doc Martin boot mark beside the body.

'Evidence' for the former is very tenuous. Story first emerged in a tabloid article nearly 20 years after the crime that provided no source. Even if it was true would the guards have known it when surveying the scene? So would they have concluded with certainty it was one of theirs based on the print resembling a Doc Marten beside the body? I was probably wearing Doc Martens back then...

mamboozle

The most plausible scenario in this murder involves Alfie. He was aware of the comings and goings, so any investigation into him was going to mean revealing things, like the Bandon guard, that would have been embarrassing.

His alibi and silence would have meant he couldn't be convicted even if they believed him the murderer. So there was no serious investigation for a number of reasons.

He was the person who told Bailey about blood on the back door, kicking off the idea that there was an attack at the house. He was later prepared to half remember damning evidence against Bailey.

Any forensics that put Alfie and Shirley at the scene could have easily been explained away in court.

Who else is remotely near having reasons they might be a suspect?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991870#Comment_117991870

No idea. I just can't imagine the entire force including the Dublin boys were in on it.

There's one name that always crops up in any coercion or dodgy behaviour in this case including bandon tapes so I'd say him for a start.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991183#Comment_117991183

I pulled that out of one of the books.....Sheridans I think. There is no doubt that the doors were locked. It was widely known at the time. Even Bamboozle linked an Irish Times article that said the doors were locked several pages back.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991327#Comment_117991327

Who are the "others" that know about this guard? The fact is that this is all classic Chinese Whispers. There is no evidence at all that Sophie knew this guy. No evidence of a physical relationship, no evidence that she made a drugs complaint to him and no evidence of a death bed confession by him, or anybody else either. No evidence that Alfie had a bandaged hand, no evidence that Bailey came to Alfie`s door on the night of the murder, no evidence that the Gardaí tried to pin it on the innocent Englishman to get Alfie, the guard or anybody else off the hook. There are some people here as mad as a bucket of frogs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992297#Comment_117992297

And how exactly do you know there's no evidence for any of this?? Because you don't know about it??

I'll tell you what there's absolutely no evidence for, either in the public domain or the garda files.

IB being guilty.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992329#Comment_117992329

You mean apart from the fact that he said he did it?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992329#Comment_117992329

What do you know about it?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992342#Comment_117992342

You should look at the DPP's report. I know it's like a science book to a fundamentalist Christian like yourself. I thought since you hadn't been around lately you might have been persuaded of the absurdity of your take on things.

Sure there's no evidence, when people go to the trouble of taking a scissors to cut it out of a book.

The idea that people who find a murdered body might have something to do with it. Did you ever in your life? Madness

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992342#Comment_117992342

If you asked someone to do something and they answered "I will, yeah" would you expect them to do what you asked?

mamboozle

@tibruit You believe that a woman alone in a country house was woken at 3am by banging on a door and decided to put on some boots to go out and see who was there. She could have asked who was there from a top window, she could have picked up the phone to call the Guards but she did what any sensible person would do. Go on tell us the rest.

mamboozle

I think people should consider how the debate has opened up on this case now that Alfie Lyons has died. Why all the documentaries this year? Especially the joke Netflix documentary with a range of contributors like Michael Sheridan, Lara Marlowe etc., who obviously don't like Bailey and appear to believe that because of domestic abuse he's a murderer. If that's the case we have thousands of murderers in Ireland. Michael Sheridan is like the Garda press officer.

Bailey has always been and still is used to distract people from looking at others. I also heard about the infamous Guard who knew Sophie, from people who live close by. The deathbed confession might be pushing things a bit, but it could be that he was troubled for allowing the murderer go free for his own selfish reasons.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992685#Comment_117992685

I only thought the matter came up again, not because of Alfie's death, but because of the trial in France. I don't know about Sheridan or the Netflix documentary, however it's hard to find unbiased journalism anywhere in the world, so why would this be any different.

There is no proof that Alfie or Shirley did it, same as there is nothing to proof that Bailey did it. I would find it hard to believe that Alfie and Shirley had a motive, I would also find it hard to believe that a neighbourhood squabble resulted in a murder so brutal in the way she was killed. At the same time, I will always find it hard to believe that Alfie and Shirley didn't hear anything at all that night, - whatever the reason may be, and maybe there is a perfectly good explanation for this, but it's still an unanswered question.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992546#Comment_117992546

If it was Bailey, then there are four witnesses that have testified that she knew him. I live in a rural area and the natural assumption for a 3 am door knock is that there was an emergency that needed attention. So for example, a knock on her back door might have Sophie thinking that Alfie had taken ill, especially if there was no car. Sure who would walk all the way out there at that time of night? Oh wait....And don`t forget, Alfie, Shirley and Sophie were on good terms. Mrs. Hellen said so.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992685#Comment_117992685

There is no new debate about Alfie. It is all going on in your delusional mind. You have been telling people that there is DNA and fingerprint evidence associating Alfie with this murder. Yet when I ask you what it is, you tell me to use my imagination. The fact is that there is no evidence associating Alfie with the murder. Nothing to prove he lied about anything, no DNA or fingerprints at the scene, no footprints, none of his hair. You are also making Shirley an accessory to murder. She is still alive.