Murder at the Cottage | Sky

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081682#Comment_118081682

Seriously, where did you hear that?? that would explain a lot of thing if true

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081727#Comment_118081727

I'm asking if anybody knows whether they are related but it would be good to say it about Nick😀

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081727#Comment_118081727

Good to see you back Jim 😘

I think it was perhaps an assumption based on her surname... If he had any actual connections to the case he'd have boasted about it in his shite book, we can be sure of that 😂

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081618#Comment_118081618

The thing that always bugs me is that Alfie and Shirley didn't hear a thing that night and it's still hard for me to believe that the murder would have been totally quiet. However I don't think that they were directly involved, but it's not impossible they were. If they were involved, I'd suggest it's more likely a drug related motive and either one or both were coerced into something, either keeping their moths shut or actually doing it. I don't think that a neighbourhood dispute on property and access was the motive.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081991#Comment_118081991

I've tried to point out in the past that I believe the most interesting element of Alfie and Shirley's involvement is that they both had 'evidence' that was damning to Bailey which they would have been well aware of. In both cases this evidence was barely credible and was dismissed by the first DPP's report. Why would they get up to something like this? They could just have said what they said about the night of the murder; I know nothing. But they didn't. On balance of probabilities they lied. WHY?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082175#Comment_118082175

What kind of evidence was this that was damning to Bailey? I probably missed that one.

Under normal circumstances Alfie and Shirley had no reason to lie. I don't think that both out of their own accord had any reason to kill Sophie, planned or unplanned, that doesn't matter. I would be inclined to believe that if Alfie and Shirley had reason to lie, than it's most likely drug related coercion by somebody local. Or something drug related about Alfie's past and that past catching up with him?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082175#Comment_118082175

the most interesting element of Alfie and Shirley's involvement is that they both had 'evidence' that was damning to Bailey which they would have been well aware of.

what was that evidence?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082587#Comment_118082587

Precisely, it doesn't matter what you think as regards the motive for murder, or whether they were involved or not, in the case of Alfie or Shirley but you go on ad nauseam with speculation. We can only work with what we know and one fact is that Alfie Lyons' partial recollection of whether he introduced Bailey to Sophie was instrumental in starting a heap of bullshit around whether Bailey knew her which he obviously didn't. Alfie took the witness stand and his evidence was possibly the most important in meaning Bailey lost the libel trial. Alfie didn't have to go to the trouble so why did he? He is gone now so can't tell us.

Shirley Foster said something about meeting Bailey at a particular time and place on the day of the murder which he denies. This contributed to the story that Bailey had more knowledge of the murder than he was letting on and has meant many people consider him guilty. But Bailey's account of his movements were seen as being truthful by the DPP. Why was Shirley Foster never asked about this? Why have we never seen her in front of a camera given how central she was to everything?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082693#Comment_118082693

You haven't just joined

mamboozle

If anybody wonders why I insist that there are unanswered questions that should have been put to Alfie and Shirley, it is all due to the DPP's first report and reason for not pursuing a charge against Bailey. Even though Eamonn Barnes, the DPP at the time has made startling revelations about the investigation, this has been met with a shrug by the 'establishment' of media that, no matter, Bailey probably did it.

Given the revelations in that report, why weren't certain detective types and journalists more interested in chasing down some of the people that the DPP had stopped short of calling liars. Eddie Cassidy of the Examiner would be one of those. Why do we see his former colleague Barry Roche on Netflix suggesting that even though the police investigation was flawed that doesn't mean Bailey is innocent. He seems to have some information he just can't share with us but you'd think as a journalist he'd find a way. Wouldn't it be more illuminating to have Eddie Cassidy explain on camera why he changed his story around the timeline of phonecalls on the day the body was discovered two or three times?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081682#Comment_118081682

You haven't just joined

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082901#Comment_118082901

So you can give a definitive answer?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082901#Comment_118082901

Someone asked this on twitter this evening which surely can't be a mad coincidence 🤭😂

The surname, on the other hand, likely is.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077718#Comment_118077718

Nope!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081438#Comment_118081438

Bailey generally treated Jules like **** so if he were unfaithful it would hardly be a surprise. Did Jules daughter not allege that he once tried it on with her?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083030#Comment_118083030

We need to talk about Nick😉. What's the angle? Why this case? Lived in Caracas during Chavez. If he took the opposite line on the case but his name was Nick Bailey you can be sure we'd have more information on him than you get in "who do you think you are".

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082694#Comment_118082694

I think this only shows how badly managed the investigation really was. I myself honestly don't think if it matters to a murder conviction in a courtroom just who actually knew whom, or who may have known whom, or if somebody may be only 90% sure, that he introduced him to her or who slept with whom. Alfie's statement of being 90% sure is more than badly phrased, he should have stated that he didn't know, rather than this 90% statement. I would strongly suggest that on this peninsula everybody knew who everyone else was, or sort of was. Bailey could have even had a sexual relationship with Sophie however short, however secretive, it's still no evidence for murder. In the end, it wouldn't even have made any difference, since knowing somebody or sleeping with somebody or being out or supposedly being out at Kealfadda Bridge that night doesn't make you a murderer at all. For a conviction beyond reasonable doubt more is needed, whoever the killer is or was if he passed away....

What it all comes down to is that it was a complete failure to link murderer to crime scene and establish motive. The incompetence started in Ireland with the Guards and was finished in France. Also credible witnesses ( somebody other than Marie Farrell ) were missing or non existent in this case. Based on that or on that "nothing we have", you can't convict somebody to 25 years in prison for murder, - it's more like justice in a banana republic, I am very surprised that the French went for that, the Du Plantier family being influential or not doesn't matter here. It's also the French judiciary whose reputation is in the focus here, same as the Garda in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083120#Comment_118083120

Fair enough but a quick Fb search pulls up SF easily enough, verified by 2 Lyons and one Richardson in her friends list. No mention of NF.

It's a fairly common surname TBF

Deeec

Is Shirleys surname Forster or Foster - theres alot of articles where she is named as Shirley Forster instead of Foster.

As regards Nick Foster - hes a leech out to make money from Sophies murder. He knows nothing more than anyone else and should not be given airtime. The guy befriended Ian Bailey to try and find proof that he was guilty - he found nothing though. His posts on social media are just to create interest in him and his thrash books. He is a nasty individual and I suggest we dont discuss him anymore on this thread as we are doing exactly what he wants - creating more publicity for him.

kerry_man15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082175#Comment_118082175

As well as their claim of hearing nothing, I find their claim of going to bed at 10pm but not being up until 8am quite convenient and unusual. I don't know many people who sleep for 10 hours a night, especially older people who tend to be early risers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083030#Comment_118083030

Wasn't me on twitter, i don't have twitter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082961#Comment_118082961

No need to be smart with "You haven't just joined". I had forgotten about Shirley's claim re her meeting Bailey which he denied. Maybe IB lied?

I cant give a definitive answer re Nick. i doubt it. He was born in Liverpool.

I agree with you re Cassidy. He was shown by phone records to have lied but still stuck to his story. Why would he have lied?. Of course non of the so called journalists would ask that. I think he is senior in the examiner now which shows what joke they are

Wouldn't it be more illuminating to have Eddie Cassidy explain on camera why he changed his story around the timeline of phonecalls on the day the body was discovered two or three times?

Was Cassidy asked to take part? Doubt he would go on. And Barry Roche won't say anything about him. Like the cops. Stick together.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084497#Comment_118084497

Yah, it definitely begs the question, do they know more than what their letting on? I still can't for the life of me, see why they grilled Bailey & Jules Thomas to see if they would contradict each other in interviews but failed to properly question the neighbors who slept abnormally long that night, whose house STDP ran in the opposite direction of, who didnt hear a thing in what was an extremely violent crime, had links to drug activity in the area however tenuous those links were & who were known to have had a dispute with the victim over the gate to the properties.

Again, not saying they did anything but they definitely should have been questioned more thoroughly, even aggressively like Bailey & Jules Thomas were to see if they knew more than what they were letting on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084547#Comment_118084547

Don't worry, mamboozle outed themselves 🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084631#Comment_118084631

It only makes sense if, say, they heard something but perhaps saw who it was... And pretended they hadn't heard or seen anything.

This adds up if it was a garda who murdered Sophie, especially as Alfie had an ongoing situation awaiting court for cultivating weed.

That would be my theory anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084877#Comment_118084877

😀 OK i haven't been keeping up here much it is going round in circles

saabsaab

It is only speculation about the wine bottle but that is the realm we're in here. The wine bottle may have been part of the whole incident if not the cause. A weapon, a bribe, a make it up gift, an introduction, a Christmas gift (to or from someone), just something nice to have some evening? I can't see it not being involved somehow. Who throws away an expensive bottle of wine? Someone in a fit of pique or getting rid of evidence.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085111#Comment_118085111

Wine bottle is key, an unusual & expensive bottle of French wine is rare in those parts of Ireland, even more so back then. And what are the chances it turns up a short distance away from the only female French citizen in the locality who was murdered. Completely improbable. With some proper investigative work, it should have been possible to at least narrow down when & where it was likely to have been purchased.

I doubt Sophie brought it with her because why would it end up in the nearby field if she did, unopened, the killer would hardly have taken it from her, leave prints/dna on it and fling it away close by. That would be beyond the realms of stupidity. I think it points to someone who either knew Sophie from France, knew what type of wine she liked and knew she would be visiting this time of year. This points towards an ex lover from France who is yet unknown. Or alternatively it points to a local who sought to impress her with expensive french wine, knew where she lived & was arrogant enough to think she would get out of bed at that time of night for him.

It also points to the motive being a romantic one as who brings a bottle of wine around like that at that time of night unless they have one thing on their mind. It rules out the drugs angle, the neighbor dispute angle, the crazy wild man running through the woods naked and shouting angle😂 amongst others. It also points to a night time killing rather than a morning one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085371#Comment_118085371

All good points Jim.

I still think there's far more evidence that points to a morning murder however.

Of course we'll never known thanks to hungover Harbison not making it down for 30 hours 🙄🙄

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085446#Comment_118085446

Yah, some of the evidence contradicts each other which I guess tends to happen in cases like this sometimes.

If the gards had identified the bottle of wine, make type, region, they could have at least found out from Sophie's friends or family if it was a type of wine she liked. If it was, it would heighten the chances that the killer knew Sophie quite well & it wasn't a spur of the moment killing from a randomer or from a hitman.

Points to the senior gard theory who she was supposedly making numerous complaints to, Ian Bailey if he did actually know her but this has never been proven or an ex lover such as Bruno Carbonnair & few more.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085446#Comment_118085446

Daylight would have probably broken around 9am at this time of the year. Even if the murder took place around 6, 7 or 8am the murderer would have still had the advantage of darkness. Just wondering, which evidence would point to a morning murder?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085611#Comment_118085611

Regarding the bottle of wine, I am also inclined to think that somebody brought Sophie the bottle, rather than her buying it. Just wondering, when was the bottle of wine actually found? Forensics canvassed the area pretty well, I'd say. Would they have missed a bottle of wine? It's also possible that the bottle of wine was left there for some unknown reason later, after the murder happend.