Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Shelga

Shelga wrote: »

I wondered this too. When watching Pierre Louis I thought- has he ever, for a moment, allowed himself to sit with the possibility that it wasn’t Ian Bailey who killed his mother? It doesn’t seem like he has, despite extremely flimsy evidence. It’s like they just need something to work towards, something to focus on, rather than the agony of being back to square one with no suspects, no evidence, no leads. I don’t know how any of us would feel until we are in a similar situation (god forbid).

Was thinking about this earlier too, the gap between the Irish version and the French version, and where did that cultural differences come from?
I believe it's not a French/Irish issue at all, it's a class issue!
These people are the French elite. They are the ruling class, Jacquie Chirac, multi millionaire, film producers but name a film they made.

As any son I have ultimate sympathy for the grieving elderly parents. But the blinkered establishment view is them versus us.
They want Bailey's head on a plate.
Even though, be in no doubt, they understand he most likely is innocent.

StupidLikeAFox

nc6000 wrote: »

Hopefully it does cause them problems and at the very least they should have to explain how they made such a balls of this investigation.

Ian Bailey said the case is being reviewed on twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1408320009504542722?s=19

TomOnBoard

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Ian Bailey said the case is being reviewed on twitter yesterday:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1408320009504542722?s=19

Yeah, WoW!

Truly believable Twitter account!

Anyone wonder why THE Ian Bailey would suddenly start tweeting malarkey in June 2021???

Anyone?

Yeah, Ian! About as credible as all the other oul' ****e!

StupidLikeAFox

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Yeah, WoW!

Truly believable Twitter account!

Anyone wonder why THE Ian Bailey would suddenly start tweeting malarkey in June 2021???

Anyone?

Yeah, Ian! About as credible as all the other oul' ****e!

Maybe he set up a twitter account to capitalise on the new found interest in his case? You know, due to the documentary we are all talking about?

riclad

The French legal system is totally different , they simply looked at the evidence and info they got from the Gardaí mostly even though the Gardaí investigation was flawed
and badly organised

Yurt2

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Yeah, WoW!

Truly believable Twitter account!

Anyone wonder why THE Ian Bailey would suddenly start tweeting malarkey in June 2021???

Anyone?

Yeah, Ian! About as credible as all the other oul' ****e!

Ah c'mon that account is pure Bailey. I don't see what's so fantastical about him setting up a Twitter account is.

TomOnBoard

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Maybe he set up a twitter account to capitalise on the new found interest in his case? You know, due to the documentary we are all talking about?

New found interest????

It's like Y'All was born yesterday!!

NOTHING today would match the interest in this case back then!!

A Twitter account born in June 2021, alleging patronage by Ian Bailey is simply impossible for me to believe!

You: Do as you wish!

qwerty13

Watched episodes 1&2.

It’s so made for a non-Irish market. The opening credits, the lady in the lake stuff - just cringe, along with the general tone of it. JS really hams it up in front of the camera too. It’s like he needed a rather strict editor.

As remarked by others, I think Ian Bailey revelled in the attention he was getting as the star/connected reporter on this. And he’s a total arse. There really does seem to be a willingness from very early on to doggedly pursue the IB line of enquiry, rather than cast the net wide and follow the evidence. There’s something about the way that Garda who got subtitled (Dwyer, I think) speaks, which makes me feel that he’s enjoying the attention aspect too.

It’s still a fascinating story, after all these years. Unfortunately for Sophie’s family. It’s hard to see how anyone will be caught for it at this stage.

TalleyRand83

Yurt! wrote: »

Where were you on the night of the 23rd of December 1996? I have it that a local spotted you in the vicinity of the cottage wearing a long black coat. She's even willing to give a statement to the Guards to that effect and I've tipped off the Cork Examiner to your presence near the scene. I'd advise you to check tomorrow's edition.

You see how this works?

*I'm not seriously accusing you of anything btw, merely illustrating how one's 'innocence' can be stripped away when we play fast and loose with these things.

Did the poster you direct this at also admit on a couple of occasions to the killing? Admitted not being in the house all night at odd times to leave?
Did he have scrape marks on his hands and face?
Does he have previous for beating up his partner?

Mackwiss

Deleted User wrote: »

Was thinking about this earlier too, the gap between the Irish version and the French version, and where did that cultural differences come from?
I believe it's not a French/Irish issue at all, it's a class issue!
These people are the French elite. They are the ruling class, Jacquie Chirac, multi millionaire, film producers but name a film they made.

As any son I have ultimate sympathy for the grieving elderly parents. But the blinkered establishment view is them versus us.
They want Bailey's head on a plate.
Even though, be in no doubt, they understand he most likely is innocent.

Think about it from their point of view... they needed this trial to keep the case open. I wouldn't be surprised they only did all of this to keep Sophie's murder in public view and actually... I wouldn't be surprised they where expecting Bailey and his lawyers to go to France and present their evidence.

The whole trial, and documentary was in the works back in 2019 already.

Convicting Bailey in France while Ireland messed it up so much creates a very awkward situation, there can't be two different justices in two different countries, in Europe, in the EU.

The trial associated with both docs is a last push to put pressure on Ireland to re-open and fully investigate the case again and not just push it under a rug.

In both docs, whom really comes out really bad will be the Gardai. With the emphasis on Bailey convicted in France based on the "evidence" and case the Gardai initially built on him.

chooseusername

I remember the case in Bristol where the press honed in on Christopher Jefferies
for the murder of a young woman in Bristol.
He was labelled the "nutty professor ", "professor strange" etc.
He did look strange ;long scraggy hair, sometimes tinted blue.
A 65 year old bachelor, retired lecturer who gave the press some great headlines.
He was the exact opposite of Ian Bailey, introverted, loner who kept himself to himself.
The press had charged him, tried him and found him guilty simply on his appearance and behaviour.
He was arrested on suspicion but was cleared .
Unlike the Bailey fiasco, the police had not fixated on Jefferies and eventually
the killer was found and Jailed.
There was a 2 part BBC tv program made about the treatment of Jefferies
at the time .
Here's a Guardian article on the story.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/dec/07/-sp-peter-morgan-christopher-jefferies-tv-drama-joanna-yeates

fryup

bugsyb4 wrote: »

My opinion from watching it is that he didn't have anything to do with the murder and at the time was an eccentric who loved the attention and probably thought let them have me as a suspect until they actually arrest the real killer and it will all blow over in a few weeks/months, how wrong he was!!

yep, thats the way i see it too,

i'm the no1 suspect so i might as well play the part of the eccentric englishman the town character...sarcastically go around town proclaiming "i smashed her brains in" "talk to my lawyers" ...play it up till they catch the real culprit, but little did he know that all these years later he'll still be the no1 suspect

Fr Tod Umptious

fryup wrote: »

yep, thats the way i see it too,

i'm the no1 suspect so i might as well play the part of the eccentric englishman the town character...sarcastically go around town proclaiming "i smashed her brains in" "talk to my lawyers" ...play it up till they catch the real culprit, but little did he know that all these years later he'll still be the no1 suspect

All well and good, but for someone with a history of domestic violence it's not really a good idea.

Maybe the Gardai honed in on Ian Bailey so much because he was such a good fit for it.
The violence, the scratches, the bonfire etc.
Maybe they had other suspects but none went anywhere near the threshold of being able to arrest and question them.

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

the only scenarios left are a bit outlandish.
Affairs..angry tradesmen.

Or maybe combine the two, giving a Robin Askwith movie with a very dark twist at the end: Confessions of a West Cork Handyman...

chooseusername

fryup wrote: »

yep, thats the way i see it too,

i'm the no1 suspect so i might as well play the part of the eccentric englishman the town character...sarcastically go around town proclaiming "i smashed her brains in" "talk to my lawyers" ...play it up till the catch the real culprit, but little did he know

He saw an opportunity to insinuate himself into the story, and when he was made
the prime suspect he was in his element.
Unfortunately for him the gardai would then focus only on him.
If he is innocent then it backfired badly on him.

fryup

chooseusername wrote: »

If he is innocent then it backfired badly on him.

and if he's guilty then he must have a backbone made from titanium, cause there's no way anyone could go through the amount of scrutiny and focus he has without cracking

Mackwiss

chooseusername wrote: »

I remember the case in Bristol where the press honed in on Christopher Jefferies
for the murder of a young woman in Bristol.
He was labelled the "nutty professor ", "professor strange" etc.
He did look strange ;long scraggy hair, sometimes tinted blue.
A 65 year old bachelor, retired lecturer who gave the press some great headlines.
He was the exact opposite of Ian Bailey, introverted, loner who kept himself to himself.
The press had charged him, tried him and found him guilty simply on his appearance and behaviour.
He was arrested on suspicion but was cleared .
Unlike the Bailey fiasco, the police had not fixated on Jefferies and eventually
the killer was found and Jailed.
There was a 2 part BBC tv program made about the treatment of Jefferies
at the time .
Here's a Guardian article on the story.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/dec/07/-sp-peter-morgan-christopher-jefferies-tv-drama-joanna-yeates

Same thing happened with Maddie's parents, they where demonized by the press in Portugal (not much in the UK) as having killed Maddie and hidden the body. Turns out it may well be a German national that escaped authorities for decades...

BnB

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you write off Bailey as a potential killer, as I have after looking at the availabile evidence.....

How can you do that. While there is no proof that he did it, there is most certainly not proof that he didn't do it.

He has no alibi. Had unexplained scratches on his hands. Has a history of seriously losing his temper and violence against women.

Surely he cannot be discounted as a serious suspect.

chooseusername

fryup wrote: »

and if he's guilty then he must have a backbone made from titanium, cause there's no way anyone could go through the amount of scrutiny and focus he has without cracking

True, but don't forget the type of person he is .
If he's guilty he is revelling in the notoriety . Goading the gardai and people of Schull at his market stall.
Catch me if you can, I'm too clever for you.
Could he be that brazen?

tdf7187

The amount of nonsense being talked on this thread.

Commonsense suggests a crime of passion, my take is it was either Bailey or another bloke she'd turned down, it wasn't some randomer or a tradesman or a mysterious well-connected senior garda (not that AGS aren't involved in corruption, some of them clearly are). Simple as. Most likely Bailey but there isn't enough evidence against him, fair enough.

FrankN1

Maybe the reason she was down near the gate was to let a car in or out? It was open the next morning...

Also did they not DNA test the two glasses of wine?

Mackwiss

tdf7187 wrote: »

The amount of nonsense being talked on this thread.

Commonsense suggests a crime of passion, my take is it was either Bailey or another bloke she'd turned down, it wasn't some randomer or a tradesman or a mysterious well-connected senior garda (not that AGS aren't involved in corruption, some of them clearly are). Simple as. Most likely Bailey but there isn't enough evidence against him, fair enough.

Common sense is what you where led to believe by so many murder movies. Reality is a different thing...

Have a look at the case of Chris Watts or Stephen Daniels. Look at the behavior they demonstrate. Compare that to Bailey on the Christmas Swim video.

You could argue back with the case of Stephanie Lazarus but she still got away for a good few decades...

Did not meant random angry tradesman but someone with a severe psychopathy triggered by Sophie's behavior towards him.

Have a look at youtube channel JCS - Criminal Psychology.

Would suggest everyone in this thread have a look at this video:

https://youtu.be/BemHqUqcpI8

irishgeo

FrankN1 wrote: »

Maybe the reason she was down near the gate was to let a car in or out? It was open the next morning...

Also did they not DNA test the two glasses of wine?

Never mind that they found male DNA on her body and blood on a boot and seemingly never done anything with it.


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/ian-bailey-pleads-new-garda-24157056

Fr Tod Umptious

irishgeo wrote: »

Never mind that they found male DNA on her body and blood on a boot and seemingly never done anything with it.


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/ian-bailey-pleads-new-garda-24157056

If I recall from the West Cork podcast technology was not good enough to do anything with DNA off the boot at the time, but when they retested it years later the best they could get was that it was an unidentified male.

CoBo55

Xander10 wrote: »

because you find him unlikeable does not amount to evidence that he carried out a murder.

Unless you're a French judge.

nc6000

CoBo55 wrote: »

Unless you're a French judge.

Who was given a load of dodgy statements by the Gardai to use in the trial.

Champagne Sally

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If I recall from the West Cork podcast technology was not good enough to do anything with DNA off the boot at the time, but when they retested it years later the best they could get was that it was an unidentified male.

Is it established that the murder was committed by a male? Could it have been a female?

Fr Tod Umptious

Champagne Sally wrote: »

Is it established that the murder was committed by a male? Could it have been a female?

No it's not established that the murder was committed by a male.
It's more than likely, but not definitely established.

crackcrack30

Disappointed with the documentary... rehashed old news rather than explore new avenues..

At that time of the year alot of people return home from afar for x-mas...
Early release or festive release from jail.... has anyone not returned since?

Were the flights in and out of dublin/cork/ shannon examined... Her flight?

Most country homes have a bike, did she or Ian have a bike..

Old work rosters can be checked , accounted for, radio transmissions recorded.
(Silverfox)

I can only imagine that at that time of year most people on that peninsulla would have a purpose or place to stay, random backpacker dosent do it for me.

Alot of (passion) deaths in this country occur over property... land , rights of way , wills etc... rational people loose control.

***

I have worked in the emergency services and I can veirfy that depending on where/when crimes happen not much has been learned with regards to scene preservation.. I've seen scenes trampled on, destroyed..

And I can also verify that on almost every street or in most villages, large towns there is an type of unstable , violent , alcoholic, narcistic, peado, recluse, obsessed potential monster with one foot sliping off the reality cliff, but not all go on to act or kill.. most behave well.. Sleep safe.

odyssey06

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If I recall from the West Cork podcast technology was not good enough to do anything with DNA off the boot at the time, but when they retested it years later the best they could get was that it was an unidentified male.

So the only DNA evidence from the scene and it doesnt implicate Bailey?