Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Table Top Joe

SoulWriter wrote: »

when did she drive past him twice? in at least one of her statements she said she passed by kilfeada bridge, I think, three times that night [she was driving around with the mystery man] but only saw the 'Bailey' person one time

I have no idea how many times she saw him (or if she even did) but trust me, his size isn't as apparent in photos and the documentaries, this is a very big fella, like fill up the doorway big..... I will never accept that someone could mistake his size for 5'8 even from the bloody moon, its ridiculous

Gussie Scrotch

Gussie Scrotch wrote: »

With respect MoonUnit, your scraping the bottom of the barell there.

With respect to MoonUnit,
he has taken the bottom out of the barrel and is two feet down in the earth

chicorytip

odyssey06 wrote: »

GSOC are a joke. No disrespect to the individuals there but they are toothless.

The DPP knew this was a frame up job.

Do you have any theories as to who - apart from Bailey - might have been the killer and the reason she was killed?

odyssey06

chicorytip wrote: »

Do you have any theories as to who - apart from Bailey - might have been the killer and the reason she was killed?

I don't, and unfortunately much evidence has been 'lost' that could have led to further forensic analysis.
Bailey has said that re-analysis of a blood found on Sophie's boot was done in 2011 by an outside expert called by in AGS. It found DNA of an unidentified male. I am hoping more information will come to light about that - was the DNA of such poor quality it could only identify the gender of the person?
I don't know what his source is for that.

I'd be curious whether her phone records were analysed from Ireland and France to see who she was in contact with?

She seemed to have concerns someone had been in the holiday home or using the holiday home while she wasn't there.

MoonUnit75

Table Top Joe wrote: »

I have no idea how many times she saw him (or if she even did) but trust me, his size isn't as apparent in photos and the documentaries, this is a very big fella, like fill up the doorway big..... I will never accept that someone could mistake his size for 5'8 even from the bloody moon, its ridiculous

She said she couldn’t put his size down as a figure, she had no idea. She’s not a carpenter or a dress maker and was pressed by the gardai to give a figure they could write down. It’s not like she said ‘I looked over and there was a man who was 5’ 8”’ they had to repeatedly ask her to estimate a figure and she plucked one off the top of her head. She said he was probably as tall as her husband, she obviously wasn’t familiar with the imperial measure.

MoonUnit75

Table Top Joe wrote: »

I have no idea how many times she saw him (or if she even did) but trust me, his size isn't as apparent in photos and the documentaries, this is a very big fella, like fill up the doorway big..... I will never accept that someone could mistake his size for 5'8 even from the bloody moon, its ridiculous

Maybe his height isn’t as apparent from the counter of a shop across the street or as you speed past in a car. Unless there was someone beside him you knew and had a reference of I think it would be easy to substantially over or underestimate height.

Table Top Joe

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

It’s not like she said ‘I looked over and there was a man who was 5’ 8”’ they had to repeatedly ask her to estimate a figure and she plucked one off the top of her head. She said he was probably as tall as her husband, she obviously wasn’t familiar with the imperial measure.

Thats my point though (and a point made by others), we agree with you, she didn't say "he looked 5'8", I would expect a lot of people to have no idea what 5'8 looks like, I wouldn't argue with that, she said "he looked about the size of my husband" though.....who is (was)...5'8, she made a comparison to someone who's height she was obviously very familiar with...

This really shouldn't be so difficult to grasp....anyway, it's getting very silly now

odyssey06

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Maybe his height isn’t as apparent from the counter of a shop across the street or as you speed past in a car. Unless there was someone beside him you knew and had a reference of I think it would be easy to substantially over or underestimate height.

Which really should give you pause about relying on 'eye witness' testimony for accurate descriptions of suspects where the person is someone they just noticed in passing.
They are notorious for getting it wrong.

Gussie Scrotch

SoulWriter wrote: »

Gardai used the papers to that end

Yes, they did.

Weddings ahoy

Sophie said she thought someone was using her house when she wasn't there, is it a stretch to think someone could also have been squatting in the Richardson's house behind her house at the time, and perhaps she saw them returning or leaving the property that night and went to confront them ?
Also the husband Daniel and the open dislike the Bouiniol family had for him is very strange in my opinion, i wonder what that last conversation was like, this might seem a bit out there , but what if Daniel told her on phone that someone had flown over to see her as a surprise perhaps her son or brother or friend whoever as a ruse to get her to open the gate as they were to arrive late ??
to me it seems an odd relationship from the start she had an affair 1 year into marriage, they split for a while, he bought the house here she spent significant time in Cork, he had money issues, he never came to identify the body,
If the guards hadn't "got their man" in the 1st few days of the murder and than solely focused on nailing IB for murder, i wonder what else they would have dug up if they really looked into the spouse of the victim .

Mackwiss

chicorytip wrote: »

Do you have any theories as to who - apart from Bailey - might have been the killer and the reason she was killed?

Mentioned here before multiple times. MF behavior is extremely suspicious and in line with behavioral traits from known convicted killers.

Linked here before a number of police interrogations from JCS Criminal Psychology showing how killers behave and the lies they create on top of it.

https://www.youtube.com/c/JCSCriminalPsychology/videos

A few examples:

Chris Watts: There's three videos on him and you can see how his story changes and his behavior is truly analyzed in those three videos

Stephen Daniel: His whole interrogation is featured but the most important thing for this topic is in the first 5 minutes where he went from being confident on having committed the perfect murder to knowing part of the body was discovered and breaking down live on camera: https://youtu.be/HkRjIq8Cp2A

Finally and in connection with why I think MF did it. The way she changes her story constantly just reminds me of Jody

https://youtu.be/N274EurzpAA

This is well worth the watch, the constant victim playing, the amount of times her story changes is just so similar to MFs behavior leading me to think that 100% she is involved.

MFs behavior alone has completely confused this whole investigation numerous times. From the first statements, to the first case against the media, to Bailey's second case against the state. And even now, she was giving yet another statement after featuring in this documentary.

She 100% knows more than she states, this mysterious man she was with(if he even exists?) can be the key or was part of what happened.

Mackwiss

And to everyone that will 100% state IB did it I would strongly suggest watching this video. Pay consideration to the behavioral analysis in it:

https://youtu.be/BemHqUqcpI8

Once this is done compare it to IBs behavior in the so many interviews he has given.

odyssey06

Mackwiss wrote: »

Mentioned here before multiple times. MF behavior is extremely suspicious and in line with behavioral traits from known convicted killers... She 100% knows more than she states, this mysterious man she was with(if he even exists?) can be the key or was part of what happened.

Could she have lifted the murder weapon \ block?

Would it be more plausible that she is implicated in it somehow ... could she have been having affair with somone and using the holiday home as a love nest while Sophie was away?
The man she was with was the actual murderer...

Still it just seems a safer course of action to say nothing, rather than coming forward with a fake suspect sighting and coming to the notice of the police?

Hmm.

Mackwiss

odyssey06 wrote: »

Could she have lifted the murder weapon \ block?

Would it be more plausible that she is implicated in it somehow ... could she have been having affair with somone and using the holiday home as a love nest while Sophie was away?
The man she was with was the actual murderer...

Still it just seems a safer course of action to say nothing, rather than coming forward with a fake suspect sighting and coming to the notice of the police?

Hmm.

You're 100% on the same wave length as me...

And on that last statement, this is precisely why she's suspicious. Killers rarely remain quiet afterwards it's a known trait in criminal psychology. Suggest watching the videos mentioned above. Specially Jodi's video.

To add, when pressed in cross interrogation they normally just continue to create a web of lies, just like MF did constantly.

Now compare it to IB besides slight changes in his statements that can be forgiven by memory lapses, his statement has always been the same.

EDit

odyssey06 wrote: »

Could she have lifted the murder weapon \ block?

Would it be more plausible that she is implicated in it somehow ... could she have been having affair with somone and using the holiday home as a love nest while Sophie was away?
The man she was with was the actual murderer...

Still it just seems a safer course of action to say nothing, rather than coming forward with a fake suspect sighting and coming to the notice of the police?

Hmm.

Someone else answered this in greater detail several pages back… the jist was, if she was worried someone had seen her out and about overnight, proactively telling the cops she was out covers her arse. Add in seeing a mysterious fella, and you’ve totally taken the focus off yourself

Chuck Noland

I’m amazed that the state coroner gets such a pass in all this? He’s hungover after his birthday and doesn’t bother traveling to Cork until the next day?

Also the gate…. How was a gate lost?

I have started watching Murder at the Cottage now, after having watched the |Netflix series a few days ago. First of all, it is incomparably better as a documentary film.

Here is just a small weird observation. In the second part of Murder at the Cottage at 17.10 - 17.27 minutes approx., there is a re-enactment of the stranger that Marie Farrell says she saw, with the long dark coat and the black 'beret', following Sophie up the street in Schull the day before she died. And then the documentary switches to archive footage of the Garda Dermot Dwyer at the gate of the house being interviewed after the murder. I don't think it is a re-enactment, I think it is actual footage from 1996. And there is a man standing beside him who looks exactly from behind like the man in dark coat and hat seen from behind in the re-enactment.

Or maybe it is a re-enactment? is it?

nc6000

Chuck Noland wrote: »

I’m amazed that the state coroner gets such a pass in all this? He’s hungover after his birthday and doesn’t bother traveling to Cork until the next day?

Also the gate…. How was a gate lost?

Who said he was hungover? Back then the State Pathologist wasn't a full time role, it was more of a loose arrangement with Prof Harbison that he would assist when needed.

He wasn't contactable until the afternoon of the 23rd, the Gardai ignored his instructions to move the body to Cork hospital.

Mackinac

Deeec wrote: »

Many men think they are gods gift to women - it doesnt make them murderers though.

Has he tried it on with other women though? If he had this reputation there must be women out there who he has creeped out.

Yes he did. He made advances towards Jules Thomas’ 18yr old daughter on Christmas Day 1995.

“Ian also made advances on me on Christmas Day 1995 - I was in the car with him when it happened - he didn’t touch me physically but he made me understand that he wanted to get off with me,” said Ginny Thomas, who had turned 18 four months earlier.

He also climbed in to the bed of a female guest at the studio house.

Chuck Noland

nc6000 wrote: »

Who said he was hungover? Back then the State Pathologist wasn't a full time role, it was more of a loose arrangement with Prof Harbison that he would assist when needed.

He wasn't contactable until the afternoon of the 23rd, the Gardai ignored his instructions to move the body to Cork hospital.

He was un reachable until the afternoon after celebrating his birthday the night before and didn’t even leave to travel down till the following day

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-depth-tea-and-scones-at-the-table-of-sophie-toscan-du-plantiers-suspected-murderer-40608188.html


This lad certainly thinks he did it.

His argument is well framed.

monkeybutter

Chuck Noland wrote: »

I’m amazed that the state coroner gets such a pass in all this? He’s hungover after his birthday and doesn’t bother traveling to Cork until the next day?

Also the gate…. How was a gate lost?

He didn't do anything wrong

You can't have one person covering a country of 4 million and expect him to turn up 24/7/365

The forensics people turned up on the day, but as it was xmass, it was dark by the time they got there, the pathologist is there for the autopsy

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-depth-tea-and-scones-at-the-table-of-sophie-toscan-du-plantiers-suspected-murderer-40608188.html


This lad certainly thinks he did it.

His argument is well framed.

Lay it out for us, any selfrespecting person wouldn't pay to see an Indo article

monkeybutter

Mackinac wrote: »

Yes he did. He made advances towards Jules Thomas’ 18yr old daughter on Christmas Day 1995.

“Ian also made advances on me on Christmas Day 1995 - I was in the car with him when it happened - he didn’t touch me physically but he made me understand that he wanted to get off with me,” said Ginny Thomas, who had turned 18 four months earlier.

He also climbed in to the bed of a female guest at the studio house.

I wonder how many of us have a creepy story they could fish out when we were drunk and randy

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

I wonder how many of us have a creepy story they could fish out when we were drunk and randy

Hopefully not that many get drunk and randy with their partners teenage children.

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hopefully not that many get drunk and randy with their partners teenage children.

18 year old adult let's not forget

And people do lots worse than that

Mackinac

monkeybutter wrote: »

I wonder how many of us have a creepy story they could fish out when we were drunk and randy

You call that “drunk and randy”. You think that is acceptable to do to a woman? Are you serious?

nc6000

Chuck Noland wrote: »

He was un reachable until the afternoon after celebrating his birthday the night before and didn’t even leave to travel down till the following day

Ok, so maybe he took the morning of the 23rd off. Could have had some shopping to do or maybe was being brought out for a birthday breakfast or brunch.

He wasn't on call so it's not like he should have been available and couldn't be contacted.

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Lay it out for us, any selfrespecting person wouldn't pay to see an Indo article

Senan Molony

July 03 2021 02:30 AM

Ian Bailey is a convicted murderer — tried in absentia in Paris, without any defence, since he protested the legality of the process and the Irish authorities refused to extradite him.

Sentenced to 25 years, he remains free, insisting he is innocent of killing a Frenchwoman now known simply as Sophie.

Bailey sued eight newspapers over naming him a suspect in her gruesome slaying, but a Cork judge – rejecting the core of his case – branded him a “violent man”.

He also failed in a suit against the Irish State and gardaí, effectively the taxpayer. He is litigious, holds a law degree, and is now threatening to sue Netflix.


Sophie’s tragic tale is dominated by bizarre twists and Ian Bailey’s towering ego
Sarah Caden:
Ian Bailey is the story as Sophie is lost yet again
Jim Sheridan says Sophie Toscan du Plantier’s family are ‘stuck in this awful pain’
Thus, in telling something of my experiences – as demanded by all I meet, after contributing to Jim Sheridan’s Murder at the Cottage – let me initially offer a deposition given in November 2002:

“I first met Ian Bailey after Christmas 1996. I was asked to cover the story of the killing of Sophie Toscan du Plantier, which was receiving international attention.

“I had been told to link up with local correspondent Ian Bailey. We drove to the crime scene at Toormore, with Bailey briefing me as we went.


“He was a tall, powerful man who looked rather dishevelled. My first impression was he was someone who had embraced the bohemian lifestyle of West Cork. Bailey provided a series of details impressive in breadth and scope. I was able to fill a couple of pages of my notebook before we even arrived. This I no longer have [surrendered to gardaí].


“Two aspects seemed to show particular insight. He spoke of lights going on and off at the murder house, and of times. He described two wine glasses on the draining board.


“When we got to the scene Bailey hung around in the background and did not make any introductions to gardaí, despite my assumption his level of knowledge must have been a product of his relationship with local officers. I made my own efforts, but they were less than forthcoming. I tried to interview neighbours but found them reluctant to talk.

“Much of Bailey’s work formed the basis of a detailed catalogue of clues about the killing, published January 4, 1997, including that Sophie was wearing night clothes. with boots laced up, and that the bed upstairs had been slept in, its clothes rumpled.

“I have been asked do I remember a scratch on Ian Bailey’s face. I could not honestly say. I subsequently learned he had been arrested, a major development which came in February 1997. The newsdesk despatched myself and a photographer back to West Cork. Bailey was still in custody; then he was released and returned home.

“There was competition to be the first to obtain an interview, but he stayed behind closed doors and avoided contact. Eventually he did grant an interview to me, perhaps because of our previous meeting.”

Photographer Jim Walpole and myself roared in the drive, past the stakeout throng. We entered by the back door, a smiling Bailey coming out to meet us, wearing a holed old hand-knit and jeans.

Jules could not have been nicer, although the cameraman noticed a detail that I did not. She offered scones, and there were biscuits.

A copy of Paris Match, reporting the case, lay on the pine table. I flipped open my spiral notebook and got to work, Jim taking pictures. Bailey produced his home-made hooch, and we each knocked back a shot. Bailey then theatrically poured my tea – such a mannerly man.

There was no air of hostility or anxiety, as with other suspects I had met. Bailey, however, wanted to be in charge. There was something in this for him. He wanted to stitch into the record that thuggish guards had been out to do him down.

He alleged he had been threatened by them immediately on being taken off in a squad car for the long drive to Bandon station. He claimed he was warned that he would be found face down in a ditch with a hole in the back of his head. The car even stopped for a while, he said, while guards shouted expletives in his face. I wrote it all down faithfully.

But I didn’t believe a single word. I’d been a crime correspondent for six years and had met all sorts. Bailey’s eagerness to get this in the paper straight away was suspicious in itself, but he ignored how stupid it was on its face.

Arresting guards typically say not a single word on the way to a reckoning, the silence serving to swirl the tempests in a suspect’s head. It’s a simple psychological technique. Time enough, with a whole period of detention ahead. The cynic in me says a cop can always bellow or produce bullets afterwards, when driving the suspect home.

I later marked it as “claims about what happened while detained”.

But when he was finished fulminating, I asked questions myself: “What about the scratches, Ian?”

He said he had told the guards he had a sidebar selling Christmas trees. I can still see his mouth opening and closing like a goldfish, noiseless, when I asked him: “Who the hell buys a Christmas tree on the 23rd of December? They’ve already got them up!”

Turkeys came into it days later – belt and braces, perhaps – but he never said turkeys to me that night. He must simply have forgotten those vicious fowl.

Looking into that face of a non-plussed, shut-up Bailey has stayed with me all my life. After a 90-minute interview, with profuse thanks to Jules and shaking Ian’s meaty hand, we quit the warmth with a mission to file copy and pictures.

Cameraman Jim shot me a look across as he gunned his Toyota Camry. “What do you think?” he asked.

We both agreed he seemed dodgy. Seasoned hacks, we’d played this parlour game before.

Soon I was reflecting on my first encounter with him and on reasons to believe he had, in fact, met Sophie.

I also recalled he had honoured me by asking, since I was a crime corr, what kind of person might have done it?

I was pleased to offer an opinion. I said the scene we’d just left was its own signature. She had gotten out of bed, where she’d just been talking by cordless phone to her husband in France. She called out as to who was there? Reassured, she put on her boots and went down. She knew her killer, thus a local man. Had it been an intruder, she would have used the bedside phone to dial 999.

“Look at where we are,” I said. “Remotest part of Ireland. No passing Frankensteins thumbing a lift to Dublin, because no road to Dublin. Back of beyonds.” Bailey listened in silence.

“Tiny finger of land, maybe 200 houses. Half of them summer homes, unoccupied, leaves 100. Four-fifths of those remaining occupied by retirees and seniors, not enough strength to lift and wield a cavity block. So that’s 20 houses left. You’re looking for a well-built man in his prime, aged 25 to 40, living locally. How many of those are around here?”

Ian said he didn’t know. And still I did not see. Nor when he began filing stories to my paper pointing to a French connection, which I knew could not be true. What ‘Day of the Jackal’ contract killer eschews a high-powered rifle and telescopic sights to operate in the dark with bits of whatever is to hand – and a swing of the gate to finish things off?

When he was nicked, the scales fell from my eyes like the collapse of a stage curtain.

Leaving lots else aside, the arrest was utterly logical. And when I interviewed him immediately on his release I could also see the sheer illogicality of what he was saying. That exclusive interview led to a front page headline: “I Did Not Kill Sophie.”

Yet Bailey confirmed himself principal suspect: “It looks to me as if they are not looking for anybody else.”

He admitted his previous domestic violence. “Jules and I have had ups and downs”, with the guards involved. He had also had a very acrimonious divorce in the UK. And he admitted he liked to go for walks very late at night, and had been seen doing so. He and Jules both admitted he got out of bed and left the house that night.

The reason why is ridiculous to me, as a reporter. He wanted to work on a story for the Sunday Tribune. But this was a Sunday night – it wouldn’t be out for another week. He would have known instinctively its five-day week began on a Tuesday, with no need for inside copy before Thursday.

And yet we’re asked to believe he agonised over each of the fewer than 400 words that eventually appeared in a feature about the internet arriving in West Cork. Any hack would have written it in half an hour, blissfully unterrified of a deadline at least four days away.

In talking to former journalistic colleagues of Bailey in Gloucester and Cheltenham, I heard many stories of an attention-seeker who loved being the centre of notoriety.

All maintained that he had a talent for self-promotion and a taste for showing-off.

Former colleagues and friends repeatedly told me Bailey had liked being abusive to people for effect.

His former girlfriend, Ellie Carey, went on the record saying he could be “niggly” and “narky”, and enjoyed getting up people’s noses as a form of pastime. He liked to “push a situation to see what happened”.

For these, and many other reasons, I am 100pc comfortable in believing Ian Bailey a perfect model for the murderer of Sophie Toscan du Plantier.

And yet, the expected murder charge never came.

The DPP decided not to prosecute, there was no forensic evidence linking him to the scene.

A perfect model perhaps, but if it wasn’t Ian Bailey then who did murder Sophie?

Nearly 25 years have gone by — time for truth.

Who says you cant get away with murder?:eek::eek:

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