Murder at the Cottage | Sky

EdHoven

Curious_Case wrote: »

Lifting a body and walking with it would increase the risk of forensic evidence either being picked up or left behind.
How visible was her body?, perhaps it was relatively hidden from passing cars?

There wouldn't be any passing cars. As far as I know there are only three houses up there - it is a cul-de-sac that is gated.
Logically if sex was the objective even after the killing the frenzied perp could have carried on. Perhaps there was screaming and knowing the proximity of Alfie's house the perp took off.

A lot of people must have bionic ears. Windows are closed in winter. Blankets up to the chin. Even in a remote place many of us once asleep do not hear sounds from a few hundred feet away outside. I hope this is normal!

thecretinhop

https://www.classichits.ie/the-niall-boylan-show/

more on this at 9pm

Curious_Case

EdHoven wrote: »

There wouldn't be any passing cars. As far as I know there are only three houses up there - it is a cul-de-sac that is gated.
Logically if sex was the objective even after the killing the frenzied perp could have carried on. Perhaps there was screaming and knowing the proximity of Alfie's house the perp took off.

I agree, it wasn't about overpowering her, it was about pure rage
Would a rebuffed, recent admirer get so enraged? I don't think so
This seems deeply rooted, something long term
Hardly a burglary gone wrong either, why would a caught burglar "hate" her so much?

irishgeo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A lot of people must have bionic ears. Windows are closed in winter. Blankets up to the chin. Even in a remote place many of us once asleep do not hear sounds from a few hundred feet away outside. I hope this is normal!

You have to learn to sleep through gale force storms as well. Not much wakes you after you learn to sleep through them.

If Sophie was leaving for the airport that early. Did she stumble on something she shouldn't. Perhaps a robbery or a drug deal and needed to be got rid of.

Curious_Case

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A lot of people must have bionic ears. Windows are closed in winter. Blankets up to the chin. Even in a remote place many of us once asleep do not hear sounds from a few hundred feet away outside. I hope this is normal!

All that, plus, older people may not have the best hearing

bb12

isha wrote: »

A lot of people must have bionic ears. Windows are closed in winter. Blankets up to the chin. Even in a remote place many of us once asleep do not hear sounds from a few hundred feet away outside. I hope this is normal!

if you're anyway vulnerable living in a rural place, you're always subconciously keeping an eye or an ear open for any unusual goings on. this includes old people, women living alone etc. it seems alfie and his wife were new to this type of living so probably weren't as aware as to what can happen in these types of areas and then this happened to them.

until you live rurally you have no idea of how alive the countryside can actually be at night and who can be lurking about.

Henry...

I thought this film wasn't supposed anti bailey

They really did a number on him on the alibi

Overwhelming majority watching it would come to the conclusion he did it same as the French and the gardai did

EdHoven

thecretinhop wrote: »

anyone hear classic fm lad was raging about ib guilt. he was on about ib buying bleach?

Classic FM the English radio station or Lyric the Irish classical music station?
Frank Buttimer might want to listen back.

SevenAte9

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was at work in Cork city when the call came through that Shirley had found a body and it was their neighbour. I have to admit our concern was for Shirley first. She was beyond shocked. It was an indescribably horrific experience.

Can you remember when the call came through that identified that Shirley was the one who found the body? Was it on the day? ie, before anything that was published in the public domain?

Reason I ask is that I have a suspicion/mad cap theory that IB was alerted to the location and some of the detail early in the day and he has never divulged this.

I can't imagine that after such a huge event that the locals were not on their phones from the get-go.

Ultimate Gowlbag

Henry... wrote: »

Overwhelming majority watching it would come to the conclusion he did it same as the French and the gardai did

Maybe if you havent listened to the podcast or just bury your head in the sand regards lack of evidence etc

Henry...

Ultimate Gowlbag wrote: »

Maybe if you havent listened to the podcast or just bury your head in the sand regards lack of evidence etc

Lol I seen enough he's lying through his teeth about the alibi and the turkeys

SevenAte9

SevenAte9 wrote: »

Can you remember when the call came through that identified that Shirley was the one who found the body? Was it on the day? ie, before anything that was published in the public domain?

Reason I ask is that I have a suspicion/mad cap theory that IB was alerted to the location and some of the detail early in the day and he has never divulged this.

I can't imagine that after such a huge event that the locals were not on their phones from the get-go.

Poster said earlier people knew in Cork an hour after discovery.

JeffKenna

Henry... wrote: »

Lol I seen enough he's lying through his teeth about the alibi and the turkeys

Don't forget the biar scratches from cutting the top off a tree.

Marcusm

thecretinhop wrote: »

https://www.classichits.ie/the-niall-boylan-show/

more on this at 9pm

Well unless Bannasidhe participates that will be the uninformed leading the highly opinionated!

odyssey06

JeffKenna wrote: »

Don't forget the biar scratches from cutting the top off a tree.

The scratches that didnt look like briar scratches which witnesses attest he had before the murder?
Or the ones he magically picked up at the scene without leaving a trace there?

bb12

JeffKenna wrote: »

Don't forget the biar scratches from cutting the top off a tree.

was it in the podcast where they said that the guards had a forestry expert investigate this possibility and he denied you would get scratches as described when cutting the pine tree

Henry...

Henry... wrote: »

I thought this film wasn't supposed anti bailey

They really did a number on him on the alibi

Overwhelming majority watching it would come to the conclusion he did it same as the French and the gardai did

I think you are right. A quick search for Ian Bailey on Twitter throws up waves of 'he definitely did it' type tweets.
The twitterati have him hung drawn and quartered.
The ironic thing is, if the guards had charged him 20 years ago the trial would have exonerated him and he would probably be living a normal life now.
Hard to predict how this will all end for him now.

EdHoven

If anyone is interested looking at the Michael Sheridan book and the Aer Lingus schedule from 1996 the flight from Paris CDG landed at Dublin but the same aircraft then left for Cork so Sophie didn't need to get off.

EI521 CDG to DUB 11:15-11:55
EI521 DUB to ORK 12:35-13:20

The same flight ex Ireland was

EI520 ORK to DUB 06:30-7:10
EI520 DUB to CDG 07:55-10:30

So if Sophie wanted the convenience of not changing aircraft on the way back as she had on the way out she would have had to leave Schull at 4 a.m.

But of course they had plenty of money so maybe she was going back via Heathrow then on to Toulouse.

Henry...

bb12 wrote: »

was it in the podcast where they said that the guards had a forestry expert investigate this possibility and he denied you would get scratches as described when cutting the pine tree

Was in this movie too

A gard scaled the tree and not a scratch on him

Henry...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you are right. A quick search for Ian Bailey on Twitter throws up waves of 'he definitely did it' type tweets.
The twitterati have him hung drawn and quartered.
The ironic thing is, if the guards had charged him 20 years ago the trial would have exonerated him and he would probably be living a normal life now.
Hard to predict how this will all end for him now.

Looked like Sheridan had it in for him in the end

cal naughton

I'm still amazed that the Guard's didn't get even a disposable camera pic of the scratches on his arms instead of the sketch. It would have been a closed case and a real "Book em Danno" moment for Dwyer.

I think the scratches weren't as bad as they wanted them to be so instead relied on the sketch.

irishgeo

EdHoven wrote: »

If anyone is interested looking at the Michael Sheridan book and the Aer Lingus schedule from 1996 the flight from Paris CDG landed at Dublin but the same aircraft then left for Cork so Sophie didn't need to get off.

EI521 CDG to DUB 11:15-11:55
EI521 DUB to ORK 12:35-13:20

The same flight ex Ireland was

EI520 ORK to DUB 06:30-7:10
EI520 DUB to CDG 07:55-10:30

So if Sophie wanted the convenience of not changing aircraft on the way back as she had on the way out she would have had to leave Schull at 4 a.m.

But of course they had plenty of money so maybe she was going back via Heathrow then on to Toulouse.

her husband said he was picking her up from an aer Lingus flight.

chooseusername

EdHoven wrote: »

If anyone is interested looking at the Michael Sheridan book and the Aer Lingus schedule from 1996 the flight from Paris CDG landed at Dublin but the same aircraft then left for Cork so Sophie didn't need to get off.

EI521 CDG to DUB 11:15-11:55
EI521 DUB to ORK 12:35-13:20

The same flight ex Ireland was

EI520 ORK to DUB 06:30-7:10
EI520 DUB to CDG 07:55-10:30

So if Sophie wanted the convenience of not changing aircraft on the way back as she had on the way out she would have had to leave Schull at 4 a.m.

But of course they had plenty of money so maybe she was going back via Heathrow then on to Toulouse.

Wasn't there 2 return tickets bought?
I can't remember the details offhand.

Henry...

Bailey's the type going round showboating and introducing himself to randommers and noticing people

She'd be the type too that would draw him in unknown to herself

Bullshlt about him not knowing her

He lied about the night

Burning stuff scratches confessions beatings

Bannasidhe

bb12 wrote: »

if you're anyway vulnerable living in a rural place, you're always subconciously keeping an eye or an ear open for any unusual goings on. this includes old people, women living alone etc. it seems alfie and his wife were new to this type of living so probably weren't as aware as to what can happen in these types of areas and then this happened to them.

until you live rurally you have no idea of how alive the countryside can actually be at night and who can be lurking about.

Alfie had been living there full time for a number of years, at least over a decade. Shirley spent most of the 6 weeks of UK school holidays, the Easter holidays, and Xmas holidays there.

They were far from being new to either the area, or living in that cottage.

Shirley was not Alfie's wife.

MoonUnit75

odyssey06 wrote: »

The scratches that didnt look like briar scratches which witnesses attest he had before the murder?
Or the ones he magically picked up at the scene without leaving a trace there?

Is this the witness who said he did have scratches?
"Musician Richard Tisdall told gardaí that Ian Bailey played the bodhrán with his group that night and he noticed that he had his sleeves rolled up to play the instrument but he saw no marks on his face and only one scratch on his hands, without specifying which hand."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/a-23-year-investigation-what-next-for-the-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-murder-case-1.4123633

However, from the same article:
"Among the witnesses, whose statements the French relied on, were those of sisters, Bernie and Sinead Kelly, who were both in the Galley Pub and near Bailey when he was playing the bodhrán between 11pm and midnight on December 22nd and neither of them noticed any marks or scratches on his hands and face.

Another witness, Chris Lynch, who had worked with Bailey in a fish factory in Schull for several months, told gardaí he saw him in the Galley Bar at about 11pm and spoke to him, but he again could not remember seeing any scratches on his hands or arms.

Venita Roche-Galvin, whose husband David owned the pub, told gardaí she had spoken to Bailey for 15 minutes and had not noticed any marks on his hands or face. Barman John McGowan, who served Bailey five times during the night, also did not notice any marks on his hands or face."

Another interesting series of statements about whether he actually cut down a tree at all:

McCarthy also told how he was with Saffron Thomas when she visited her father, Michael Oliver, over Christmas and she told him the scratches she had on her hands were from cutting down a Christmas tree and it was she, and not Bailey, who had cut down the tree and he was lying if he said otherwise.

And Michael Oliver, now deceased, also made a statement to gardaí to the effect that his daughter told him that Ian Bailey was “a lazy bastard” and that he did not even want to get them a Christmas tree and that she had to cut the tree and bring it into the house herself.

Henry...

Henry... wrote: »

Was in this movie too

A gard scaled the tree and not a scratch on him

He got promoted to chief inspector after it

Bannasidhe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Poster said earlier people knew in Cork an hour after discovery.

That was me.
I said We knew in Cork city an hour later by which I literally mean we not the entirety of Cork city.
My then in laws were very close friends of both Alfie and Shirley and were due to travel to West Cork that day.
Alfie rang them.

Bannasidhe

SevenAte9 wrote: »

Can you remember when the call came through that identified that Shirley was the one who found the body? Was it on the day? ie, before anything that was published in the public domain?

Reason I ask is that I have a suspicion/mad cap theory that IB was alerted to the location and some of the detail early in the day and he has never divulged this.

I can't imagine that after such a huge event that the locals were not on their phones from the get-go.

No sorry. I started work at 10:30 am and service started at 12:00. I was still doing prep and we hadn't any orders in yet so before noon.