Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Cluedo Monopoly

Thanks mainly to the Gardai handling of this case, nobody will ever found guilty of the murder. Ever.

It's not just the lack of evidence, it's the loss of evidence like the farm gate which any defence barrister will rip apart.

Even if Bailey wrote a confession today I imagine a good barrister would get him off.

mailspaining

Apologies because I'm not convinced this hasn't been asked earlier but has anyone ready Nick Foster's Murder at Roaringwater? Sheridan and McInytre have cameos and Foster worked with him on it but I'm asking about the easter egg Foster says he has hidden it in that tells the killer he knows the truth. I think it's just a line to sell books but any other ideas?

BQQ

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649298#Comment_117649298

Despite all the documentaries / pocasts, (or maybe because of them) People seem to be greatly misinformed about this case

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/blood-stained-gate-in-sophie-murder-inquiry-wasnot-lost-gardai-reveal-40647261.html

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649592#Comment_117649592

I think you are right in your assessment.

Imagine going to the trouble of researching and writing such a book, befriending and actually living with Bailey for a time, and then saying: 'I've written my book and hidden a clue inside it that only the killer will understand'.

He is basically admitting that his book is rubbish so resorting to the free toy in the cornflake box strategy.

Has any serious author ever done this before? It's quite pathetic in my opinion.

ShamNNspace

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649647#Comment_117649647

Senan seems to contradict himself quoting Sophies son as saying he was not offered the gate, the whole article is ambigious, "it is said".. "senior sources", the usual stuff from Senan who from his demeanour on the documentary still holds a bit of a grudge because Bailey didn't hold his hand on his arival in cork.. That a gate from a murder scene was quickly believed to be of no evidential value by the forensic lab frankly beggars belief and I for one would raise a sceptical eyebrow at Senans scribblings on this matter.. If the gate was too large to store longterm for heavens sake cut off the areas with the blood splatters taking multiple pictures as they go along so there could be no mistaking it was the gate from the murder scene and store them in a sterile environment with the rest of the evidence, the whole garda investigation was a complete shambles and its fair to wonder why this was so, imv a mouses fart would hold more weight than any of Senans ramblings on this case

nc6000

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649647#Comment_117649647

But the 2018 GSOC investigation found the Gardai lost a number of items of evidence and witness statements. Its all in the report.

They are changing their story now that their incompetence is being highlighted in two TV series.

EdHoven

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647525#Comment_117647525

Yes, I didn't realise it was a nine inch by nine inch by seventeen inch block. The cavities are not all that large either. It might be 25kg. I wonder if any experiments were ever done to see the effect of that on something like a head or face? Dropped or smashed from a height it would be hard to see anything being left of the unfortunate victim.

The photos from the crime scene show what look like foot prints on it. I would have thought if it was smashed on the face there would be some matter from the victim on it. It looks clean It also looks like it is placed next to a metal fencing pin that wire ties to. Maybe it was placed there to support the pin.

I was reading yesterday online the chapter on Sophie in the book "The Things I've Seen : The Nine Lives of a Foreign Correspondent" by Lara Marlowe. She says the blood spots on Sophie's long johns were circular droplets deposited as if descending from above, as if from the perp not the victim. She was hopeful the droplets could be analysed in the future.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650936#Comment_117650936

"I was reading yesterday online the chapter on Sophie in the book "The Things I've Seen : The Nine Lives of a Foreign Correspondent"

link please?. EDIT OK saw it https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Jax8AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT80&lpg=PT80&dq=tomi+ungerer+ian+bailey&source=bl&ots=LcU0DiUSDA&sig=ACfU3U3F0o7wzzYRhM3CTDA3nrLkOyq3-A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwis4Pub5OfxAhUNNuwKHfsyDk8Q6AF6BAgQEAM#v=onepage&q=tomi%20ungerer%20ian%20bailey&f=false

FishOnABike

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650936#Comment_117650936

From what I've read in various articles French forensic examination in 2011 also found DNA near Sophie Toscan du Planter's bootlaces. That DNA has not been identified. That a French Court found Ian Bailey guilty in absentia in the face of such potentially exculpatory evidence demonstrates how much of a farcical showtrial the French Court case was.

The case has more loose ends than a pot of noodles. The Office for the Director of Public Prosecutions twice ruled that there was not evidence to prosecute anyone for the murder.

EdHoven

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651244#Comment_117651244

I haven't been around long enough to link. Don't blame me!

And I didn't just make up a book and an author and a chapter.

Google websleuths forums thread ireland sophie toscan du plantier 39 murdered county cork 23 dec 1996 568507 page 5

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651511#Comment_117651511

OK I found it. It never occurred to me that you made it up. Nothing new to me though

EdHoven

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117651565#Comment_117651565

For anyone not quite so dismissive here is the quote from the State Pathologist's report:

"the curious situation that the drops of blood on the clothing were for the most part quite circular, a few with slight 'blobs' on the edges, as if they had fallen vertically on to the long johns rather than dribbled downwards from the deceased's head onto her legs"

"the impression that this blood therefore fell on these trousers while in that infolded state" i.e. the blood fell when she was already not moving and her clothes were in there final position

chooseusername

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644916#Comment_117644916

I do believe there was some truth in Maria Farrell's early testimonies.

The fact she saw the stranger in Schull on Sat as Sophie was in her shop.

The Fact she saw who she believed to be the same man on Sunday at 7am in Airhill Schull as she left for Cork market.

The fact she saw him again at 3 am on the Monday morning of the murder on Kealfada bridge about 9 km from Schull and 3 km from Sophie's house.

She said this man was around 5'8".

The Gardai were fixated on the persona non grata; Ian Bailey.

Maria Farrell was Gullible or they had something on her , benefit fraud in England , motoring offences .

They set to work to make her testimony put Bailey at the crime scene.

Ian Bailey is 6'3".

Eventually she said what they wanted to hear, and they had their patsy.

The man seen around Schull that weekend may have been with Sophie and they wanted to keep it discreet .

Or he may have arrived in Schull separately to confront Sophie, but either way things went horribly wrong.

Before buying their house in Schull Sophie had visited her French friends several times in Galway and used the travel agent there

who reported dealing with a French man on the afternoon of the 23rd similar in description to the man Maria Farrell described .

But his efforts fell on deaf ears, they already had their man.

I now believe the answers lie in France, and we are looking at a "crime passional".

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652794#Comment_117652794

"For anyone not quite so dismissive here is the quote from the State Pathologist's report:"

It is not dismissive to say there was nothing new in the The Things I've Seen : The Nine Lives of a Foreign Correspondent". Just a fact

The drops of blood on her clothing is covered in one of the docs, I cannot recall which.

notahappycamper

I wonder how many cells of DNA are available from this case. See this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57947785

briany

I also think that it probably was Ian Bailey who did it, but I'm just not comfortable with anyone being convicted of a crime based on hearsay and circumstantial evidence. It's just too open a system for unfortunates to be convicted for things they didn't actually do. Investigation was completely mishandled and there'll probably never be justice for it.

Do find it quite weird that Bailey is still flouncing around Schull as a resident local character, singing in pubs and dressing in odd attire and sort of enjoying the notoriety. I know he can't leave the country, but I'd have thought he'd gradually be less and less welcome in that particular town.

Skerries1234

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649678#Comment_117649678

Nick Fosters book is a great read - he was fairly rigorous in his investigation and his dealings with Bailey very insightful - his evidence for me suggests Bailey knew Sophie and that they had discussed her work - he found a very interesting bit of evidence overlooked by everyone and it’s pretty compelling - it’s not hidden in the book it’s laid out in plain sight

Yurt2

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654278#Comment_117654278

What is the evidence regarding him knowing Sophie in the book?

Skerries1234

I won’t do Nick Fosters writing justice but I’m summary - He found writings from Sophie about a trip she took to Calcutta in 1989 - she mentioned and was fascinated by the goddess Kali and how they worshipped her - basically a godess of violence I believe - in Feb 1997 Paris Match sent over a female journalist to interview Bailey - she was fairly wary of him and uncomfortable etc and gave a Garda statement to that effect - she mentioned in her interview a a god Bailey kept referring to her that unnerved her as it was Apropos nothing - Kali she said it was - a Hindu goddess of violence.

this is all on record and what are the chances Bailet just happened to know about this obscure goddess - remote I’d say - to me it shows he knew Sophie abd that they had talked - Bailey never visited India - she has and she had written about it

Padraig Mor

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654347#Comment_117654347

Kali is far from being obscure, she's arguably the most famous Hindu god out there!

EmmetSpiceland

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654278#Comment_117654278

What is it?

Skerries1234

Fine I’ll doth my cap to you on that one - may be a total coincidence right ?

anplaya27

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654347#Comment_117654347

Kali ? Sure every man and his dog of a certain age probably knows that goddesses name in the western world thanks to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom sure.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654362#Comment_117654362

Exactly right. Foster may be a good writer but his talent lies in fiction. Blurring the lines between fact and fiction is a shameful endeavour when dealing with real lives and real consequences. And still to this day he grifts magazine interviews off the back of it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57947785

Maybe we are getting closer to a DNA link, that's if the Gaurds haven't somehow lost the last of the evidence. Or are they even bothered to test it?

OwlsZat

Ya there was male DNA on the boot too. The recently identified man from Paris you'd like to test straight away.

I've heard of Kali and I a not surprised IB did One of the reasons i wouldn't buy Foster's book is his childish easter egg secret message sales ply and the other is an interview I heard with him. He's as full of himself as IB

Skerries1234

Well I’m not sure where the fiction is - you have a s statement from a Journalist in 1997 and writings made by STDP - now I guess he believes it’s remote that it’s a coincidence that Bailey just randomly mentions to a journalist a subject that was deeply personal to STDP. Personally i think it’s a random thing to say to someone - and in the book and from what’s in the statement given he knew a lot about the practices and the offerings given - sinking paper boats etc - something STDP has also mentioned - but who knows eh

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654430#Comment_117654430

The fiction is in using the Hindu goddess of death to link Sophie and Bailey.

Think about it.

Yurt2

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654416#Comment_117654416

https://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Exclusif-Ian-Bailey-recoit-Paris-Match-1683299

Here is an interview with Ian Bailey conducted by that Paris Match journalist in April of last year. No mention of Kali or any other Indian goddesses for that matter.

Would any French or anyone else familiar with France know if this is a magazine of repute? It seems to be a glossy lifestyle magazine rather than a serious periodical. Happy to be corrected by anyone more in the know.

Did the alleged reference to Kali by Bailey come from 97 or another year?