Murder at the Cottage | Sky

morettibirra

I don't think Bailey did it.

The West Cork podcast and the two documentaries both focussed on Bailey's odd character and circumstantial evidence.

An odd character plus circumstantial evidence does not equate to murder.

From the Praire cottage to Ms.Sophie's house was 40 minutes on foot and less on bike.

No media production has offered a plausible explanation as to how Bailey did it and covered his tracks.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667438#Comment_117667438

The most compelling competing theory as to the circumstances of the murder is that someone else did it.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667937#Comment_117667937

Circumstantial evidence does equate to murder if you have enough of it. Bailey liked to walk at night, but he could have just driven there. I`m currently in the middle of Foster`s book and I have to say that my opinion of Jules Thomas has changed. There is a lot of witness testimony that contradicts her whereabouts on the morning after the murder, including that of one of her daughters.

morettibirra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668901#Comment_117668901

Thanks for response.

I have Foster's book and look forward to reading it. My bias is that I have reservations given Foster's own self-promotion ("I put in a clue that only Ian would know")

Even if the method of transport, the car is correct, he drives there and kills Sophie after a failed tryst. Drives back and everything is fine.

What people perceive as erratic behavior from Ian could also be attributed to a journalist finally getting his foot in the game in Ireland after a hiatus from his success in England

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668933#Comment_117668933

I don`t see the issue about him promoting his book..... good luck to him. Bailey clearly lied in his initial testimony about his whereabouts on the the night of the murder. It also appears that Jules Thomas lied about her whereabouts on the morning afterwards. There is also a witness statement that implies that Marie Farrell was expecting a payout if Bailey won his court case against the Gardaí.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117668780#Comment_117668780

That's not really a competing theory, though. It's just another way of saying that Bailey is not guilty. A competing theory should have an alternative suspect, motive, means etc.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654362#Comment_117654362

The point I think in all of this is that IB likes to think he's clever as he messes around with people's heads with information he knows about the victim or crime.

He did something similar when he brought Donal McIntyre and Nick Foster with a camera crew out to a stone quarry and started smashing up rocks whilst carrying 15-20kg slabs.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669062#Comment_117669062

Well the gardaí started off with fifty or so potential suspects, known and unknown. Any of those perhaps someone living near, perhaps the driver of the blue ford, perhaps the other occupant if Marie Farrell's car, perhaps the mystery man seen in town the previous Saturday, perhaps the man who died saying he had done something terrible, perhaps whoever had been using her cottage, perhaps the possible passenger in Sophie's car, perhaps the person enquiring about B&Bs in West Cork and flights to France in the Galway travel agents, perhaps a former lover, perhaps a professional hit, perhaps whoever the unmatched DNA found near Sophie's boot lace, perhaps....

There are so many possibilities it does not make any sense to elevate one above another in the absence of solid evidence and without solid evidence I doubt there will ever be a conviction barring a confession.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669345#Comment_117669345

Are there so many possibilities?

For someone claiming to be innocent all he had to do was tell the truth. There are more holes in IB's story (and that of his partner) than there are in Swiss cheese.

marieholmfan

The 'cottage' she was murdered in was enormous. This woman was rich. Her husband remarried eighteen months after her death. This murder was IN West Cork but why the assumption that this was OF West Cork?

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669495#Comment_117669495

Yes, if its motive you seek, then you'll find a lot more in France the in west Cork

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669444#Comment_117669444

There are at least that many and I've just thought of another. Who knows how many more possibilities one might be able to identify if they had full access to all the Garda evidence, including the 139 missing statements.

Purely given the number of possibilities it is more likely that any one potential suspect did not commit the murder than they did.

Considering at least three potential suspects failed to come forward to eliminate themselves from enquiries, one has to ask why.

It is not unusual for two people's account of things to differ in detail, indeed accounts which match too closely can be indicative of collusion.

The DPP has twice ruled there is not the evidence to prosecute anyone for the murder. I wouldn't presume to know any better than the DPP.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669656#Comment_117669656

Who are the three suspects that have not come forward?

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669723#Comment_117669723

It is true that there were 50 people of interest on the radar of the Gardaí but they narrowed it down to one person - Ian Bailey.

There's not three others in the background.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667523#Comment_117667523

I didn't realise all evidence had been removed from the gate as you say .

By removed, do you mean destroyed or bagged and kept for future analysis?

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669495#Comment_117669495

I thought she was murdered outside her cottage?

TheW1zard

Jules knew about the murder before 2pm

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117666726#Comment_117666726

Quote from the Guardian..

'Daniel was the last person she spoke to: she called him shortly after 11pm at their home in Paris and then went to bed, taking with her a volume of WB Yeats's poetry. The book was later found open at the place Sophie had stopped reading, at a poem entitled "A Dream of Death"

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669723#Comment_117669723

The owner of the blue ford seen speeding in the area around 7:30am on 23rd

The man seen in town the previous Saturday, thumbing on the road the following morning and at Kealfada Bridge around 3am on the 23rd. Since identified in a photograph by Marie Farrell

The man enquiring about West Cork B&Bs and flights to France at the Galway travel office (may be the same person as above).

The other occupant of the car with Marie Farrell.

The person who had been using Sophie's cottage when she was not there.

The male passenger seen in Sophie's car in the garage in Skibbereen  on 20th, the day Sophie arrived in Ireland.

That's at least six unidentified people of potential interest.

It is true that there were 50 people of interest on the radar of the Gardaí but they narrowed it down to one person - Ian Bailey.

There's not three others in the background.

@Peter Flynt

True, there's six or more unidentified persons of potential intetest in the background that don't appear to have been investigated as thoroughly as they should have been.

With so many unknowns the gardaí may have narrowed it down prematurely to the detriment of the investigation.

Button_y

Apologies if already been asked (I can't see thread search in new version).

Sophie's family mentioned the heating not working and that Sophie was going to fix it. Firstly I see no mention of a plumber, electrician coming to fix the heating, was this something she did herself? It seems strange to come Christmas week to fix the heating and doesn't really sound plausible. Was she using it as an excuse? It sounded like Sophie was friendly with her neighbours did they have access to the cottage to let someone in to fix the heating.

briany

The case puts me in mind of that other famous whodunnit from a few years prior to this one - the child killings at Robin Hood Hills, West Memphis Arkansas, 1993. A grisly outdoor murder scene, a botched investigation, police corruption, dodgy confessions, recanted testimonies, eccentric prime suspect, sightings of mysterious individuals, lack of forensic evidence, and both have been the centre of significant media attention.

It strikes me that, having not paid much attention to the case prior to the renewed media interest, I would have just assumed Bailey was guilty as sin and just free because of some frustrating technicalities in the law. I suppose that the people in West Memphis in 1993 just assumed the guilt of the accused (who were convicted, but later released on an Alford plea). Worse in the later case because they even had an alibi and were still convicted. In the case of the WM3, it's pretty clear to me that they were innocent, but with Bailey, I don't know either way, but it just makes me think how potentially easy it could be to be put in the frame for a murder.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671009#Comment_117671009

The first time hearing of a male passenger in her car the day she arrived. Where is that reported?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671200#Comment_117671200

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sophie-with-mystery-man-before-death-qgr9jdm3f38

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671096#Comment_117671096

She had a local housekeeper, Josephine Hellen, who had turned on the lights, lit the fire and placed freshly cut holly on the windowsills to make the house more welcoming and Christmassy for Sophie's arrival on 20th.

It does seem strange to fly all the way from France to try and get heating fixed with less than a three day window in Christmas week to find a tradesperson. Surely that's something that could be more conveniently and easily organised by her housekeeper who lived nearby and would know local tradespeople.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671009#Comment_117671009

Is it true that Garda files on 5 other suspects went missing?

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671318#Comment_117671318

Tis like the Bermuda triangle for files and evidence going missing in this country , sure didn't Noreen and the hubby an him a detective an all seach hign an low for the laptop and mobiles that time an not a trace could they find, terrible altogether

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117670766#Comment_117670766

The body was found about 10:30, news travels fast in a rural community. There was a woman posting here earlier who said she had a phone call about the murder and who it was before 1pm. I believe she was working in Cork City and had a casual friendship with the woman who found the body.

Bailey and Jules knowing about the victim early is not at all strange. She was a photographer, he was a journalist. A lot of money to be made from pics and info from the murder scene.

TheW1zard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671441#Comment_117671441

They say they heard about it at 2pm.

Its numerous other people who contradict them.

Sure they may have heard, but why lie?

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671630#Comment_117671630

Bailey claims to have been told about the murder at 1340 by Eddie Cassidy - there are phone records to corroborate this story.

Who are the numerous other people who contradict him?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671441#Comment_117671441

Didn't Sophie's son say he could look across the valley and see the murderer's house?

That being the case traffic on the road up to Sophie's house could be visible from the upper floor of the studio or the prairie cottage

At 10:30 or 11 am on a dull morning headlights would be on, and the extra traffic would have raised suspicions.

Jules and Ian headed over with her camera, tried to take some photos from a distance .

Jules headed into town leaving Ian prowling around .

When he realised or was told it was a murder scene he decided it was not a good idea to be found around the area and headed home

on foot to wait for the 'official' news to break and returned to the scene at 2 pm.