Raised in England - irish blood. Irish?

bigar

There is an easy test. To be considered Irish, the person needs to:

- have ginger hair
- be drunk most of the time
- go to church every day and twice on Sunday
- be very lucky in whatever they do
- welcoming everyone they meet with "Top o’ the Morning"

If not, they are obviously not Irish.

Feenix

bigar wrote: »

There is an easy test. To be considered Irish, the person needs to:

- have ginger hair
- be drunk most of the time
- go to church every day and twice on Sunday
- be very lucky in whatever they do
- welcoming everyone they meet with "Top o’ the Morning"

If not, they are obviously not Irish.

That's embarrassing. Can't believe you posted that.

Bobblehats

bigar wrote: »

There is an easy test. To be considered Irish, the person needs to:

- have ginger hair
- be drunk most of the time
- go to church every day and twice on Sunday
- be very lucky in whatever they do
- welcoming everyone they meet with "Top o’ the Morning"

If not, they are obviously not Irish.

Big bushy ginger hair is it? And what about freckles, you forgot the freckles

Preferably not those dark freckles; that look like blackheads. An unsightly mutation that has come to my attention of late..

FlubberJones

Hoboo wrote: »

You really cant.

You're either Irish or something else, and you most definitely can't be Anglo Irish, a term which in itself is nauseating. It screams "I'm British but I think it's cool to claim some Irishness"

No proud Irish person would want to be half anything else, and that's what make you Irish. It's not about wearing green or having the craic. It's pride. The fact you're proud to be Irish and thankful you're not something else. Like British.

"it's cool to claim some irishness".... where on earth did this come from

SharpshooterTom

bigar wrote: »

There is an easy test. To be considered Irish, the person needs to:

- have ginger hair
- be drunk most of the time
- go to church every day and twice on Sunday
- be very lucky in whatever they do
- welcoming everyone they meet with "Top o’ the Morning"

If not, they are obviously not Irish.

Is this the Daily Mails official test for Irishness?

markest

They, you, me in fact everyone is a human being. We are all part of the country we know as Earth.

Hoboo

Hoboo wrote: »

You really cant.

You're either Irish or something else.

Bull****, of course you can be Irish and something else.

SharpshooterTom

bubblypop wrote: »

Bull****, of course you can be Irish and something else.

A lot of people don't understand the concept of dual nationality.

Larbre34

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

Plenty of people in the north do, certainly those from mixed backgrounds.

Brendan Rodgers described himself as a British coach after winning the FA Cup with Leicester on Saturday.

His Mother was a protestant though.

You're missing my point.

Plenty of Irish people in the 6 counties just want to be described as Irish, which they are constitutionally entitled to do and yes, they are absolutely Irish.

But anyone wants to describe themselves as Irish and British or Irish and Northern Irish or just Northern Irish, is not Irish. They are just yellow pack British.

There is so such legitimate entity as 'Northern Ireland' and so it follows that there is no such identity as Northern Irish. When it comes to people like Rory McIlroy, I'd respect his position a lot more if he just fessed up and said 'I'm British.' At least its legitimate and principled.

Larbre34

bubblypop wrote: »

Bull****, of course you can be Irish and something else.

Once its not British.

No, I'm not joking.

Bobblehats

bubblypop wrote: »

Bull****, of course you can be Irish and something else.

Imelda May says you can’t be Irish and racist

So that Vietnamese rapper’s more Irish than me?

ablelocks

there's a neighbour of mine who is English, his parents were NIrish who moved to London. He married a local lady, started a family and settled here for a long time now

he's as irish as anyone born and bred here, moreso in some ways (especially when he's playing or at a hurling match) - hasn't lost the accent though

Hamsterchops

Deleted User wrote: »

Morrissey says it all really......

Complications and tussles between the heart and the blood, belonging to Ireland and being part of England. England is where the heart is, Ireland is where your soul is and vice versa.

Basically you are what you say you are, be it English or Irish, or Anglo-Irish or whatever.

"Being English is a very subtle and specific version of being British, which is more encompassing.

... also, plenty of British people would never call themselves English, even many people born in England!

Galwayguy35

No

barney shamrock

Ah, Morrissey.... lead singer of the greatest Irish band of them all.

Pherekydes

What is Irish blood?

Just blood, no?

Cilldara_2000

Hoboo wrote: »

You really cant.

You're either Irish or something else, and you most definitely can't be Anglo Irish, a term which in itself is nauseating. It screams "I'm British but I think it's cool to claim some Irishness"

No proud Irish person would want to be half anything else, and that's what make you Irish. It's not about wearing green or having the craic. It's pride. The fact you're proud to be Irish and thankful you're not something else. Like British.

I sincerely hope most Irish people do not share your exclusionary views. I don't anyway and I see nothing wring with people claiming more than one nationality when they have substantial links to more than one country.

maureencol

Yes, I have had this discussion a few times. I was born in America to Irish parents...both McDonaghs ... so I'm a double Mac. We went back to Sligo when I was 5 for awhile since my father retired and lived in my granny's little house with no electricity or indoor plumbing, cooked in the hearth. Came back to America to go to school. Went back for visits a number of times. Took Irish dance, studied Irish language, dated Irish guys, married a man from Belfast. I go home twice or three times a year now. My DNA is 100% Irish. So ... am I more Irish than the Chinese immigrant's child that was born in Ireland and lives there?

JPup

It's interesting to think of this from the other side now, since we are now a nation of immigrants whereas historically we were a nation of emigrants.

In my child's primary school class there are a lot of children with two foreign born parents. Indian, Romanian, English in one case! etc. Are those kids Irish? I think they are, but they are at least as much the nationality of their parents. That's the language they speak at home and where their grandparents and cousins are by and large (less so in the case of the Eastern Europeans where the cousins have often moved over too).

NSAman

Depends, born in England raised in Ireland, have cousins who were born and raised in England, the differences between us are stark!

ILoveYourVibes

JPup wrote: »

It's interesting to think of this from the other side now, since we are now a nation of immigrants whereas historically we were a nation of emigrants.

In my child's primary school class there are a lot of children with two foreign born parents. Indian, Romanian, English in one case! etc. Are those kids Irish? I think they are, but they are at least as much the nationality of their parents. That's the language they speak at home and where their grandparents and cousins are by and large (less so in the case of the Eastern Europeans where the cousins have often moved over too).

The thing is though.....although i would never say this to them..a lot of them when they return to those countries ...are not considered of those nations ..but well irish.

2lazytogetup

does it matter, why do they have to be pigeonholed. are you planning mass genocide in England and figuring out what to do with these irish blood people

im born and bred Dublin. But i feel more European or citizen of the world than irish. i like alot of aspects of irish culture cead mile failte and friendliness. But i don't think that makes me more irish than others. this type of conversations leads to nationalism, xenophobia. ironic that Morrissey video is referenced in this thread.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Once its not British.

No, I'm not joking.

Why not?

SharpshooterTom

Poll results look a bit weird, not sure how honestly representative this is of real life.

As I said I'm born and raised in England to Irish parents, moved to Northern Ireland aged 14, still speak with an English accent.

Not sure I can recall any times where I've been referred to as 'Irish' in my 20 years of living here, if ever. I've never been seen as anything other than British/English.

SharpshooterTom

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

Poll results look a bit weird, not sure how honestly representative this is of real life.

As I said I'm born and raised in England to Irish parents, moved to Northern Ireland aged 14, still speak with an English accent.

Not sure I can recall any times where I've been referred to as 'Irish' in my 20 years of living here, if ever. I've never been seen as anything other than British/English.

That's because of your accent.
If you lost it no-one would ever refer to you as English

iamstop

To me it depends. England is not too far from Ireland and if they have travelled back occasionally over their formative years and spent any amount of time in Ireland it sure adds to their 'Irishness'. However, I've met a number of people here in Canada and also in the states who have one or two parents from Ireland (sometimes only a grandparent or two), have never been to Ireland and still try to claim 'being Irish'.
Having Irish heritage or ancestry is totally different to 'being' Irish. You need to be familiar with the way or life, the craic, the banter, the mannerisms and the culture of the country.
The people from the US and Canada with Irish ancestors who walk and talk like North Americans and not a tiny bit Irish are, in my mind, not Irish.

iamstop

iamstop wrote: »

To me it depends. England is not too far from Ireland and if they have travelled back occasionally over their formative years and spent any amount of time in Ireland it sure adds to their 'Irishness'. However, I've met a number of people here in Canada and also in the states who have one or two parents from Ireland (sometimes only a grandparent or two), have never been to Ireland and still try to claim 'being Irish'.
Having Irish heritage or ancestry is totally different to 'being' Irish. You need to be familiar with the way or life, the craic, the banter, the mannerisms and the culture of the country.
The people from the US and Canada with Irish ancestors who walk and talk like North Americans and not a tiny bit Irish are, in my mind, not Irish.

I guess the real test is how paranoid they are about leaving the immersion heater on.

I see only a simple majority for those like myself.

Jeez.

So the 'same old same old' attitudes in many counties are alive and well, in other words, "To be fully IRISH, Tommy would need to have gone to Mass in the local London / New York / Boston parish church every Sunday, been a good player on the London / New York / Boston GAA team, and drink 7 pints of Guinness / Murphy's / Kilkenny a week.

Capt'n Midnight

bigar wrote: »

There is an easy test. To be considered Irish, the person needs to:

- have ginger hair
- be drunk most of the time
- go to church every day and twice on Sunday
- be very lucky in whatever they do
- welcoming everyone they meet with "Top o’ the Morning"

If not, they are obviously not Irish.

Ah 'the luck of the Irish'.

Only used by those who don't know history.

mcsean2163

They are as you describe them. The label doesn't really matter and anyone that thinks that way is probably best avoided.

boardlady

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't consider them Irish. My in laws have raised their kids in the UK, they are English, they don't have any connection to this country bar the fact their parents are from here. My parents are also foreign born but I was born and raised here and consider myself Irish, my parents country of origin has no significance for me.

I think the answer lies in the person themselves - and where they identify with belonging. Two people in the same family can identify differently where there is a difference to be made. For example, two lads raised in Belfast then moved to the UK as adults. One identifies with being British through and through and in fact abhors the Irish, the other identifies with being Irish, although surrounded by Britishness and being fully immersed in its culture. Some people 'fit in' perfectly with their families, cultures and national identities, others struggle to 'belong' in the most blurred of identities.

SharpshooterTom

bubblypop wrote: »

That's because of your accent.
If you lost it no-one would ever refer to you as English

But the question is asking if they are raised in England and have English accents would you consider them to be Irish?

And a slim majority are saying yes which is not based on my experiences in real life.

SharpshooterTom

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

But the question is asking if they are raised in England and have English accents would you consider them to be Irish?

And a slim majority are saying yes which is not based on my experiences in real life.

I would imagine that they are saying they consider them Irish, if it is explained as per OP.
Not if they met someone with an English accent, without knowing the background.
They are Irish legally, so I would imagine most people are aware of that.

Brussels Sprout

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Personally, no. They are English. This blood thing gets messy.

For example, you say the parents are Irish, but what if they were born in Ireland to spanish parents? Doesn't that then make the parents spanish? And thus, the English born child is spanish?

But then the Spanish parents were actually born to Mexican and Algerian parents............

Ash.J.Williams

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Morrisey? Jonny marr? Johnny rotten? Mani? English

Bobblehats

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Personally, no. They are English. This blood thing gets messy.

For example, you say the parents are Irish, but what if they were born in Ireland to spanish parents? Doesn't that then make the parents spanish? And thus, the English born child is spanish?

But then the Spanish parents were actually born to Mexican and Algerian parents............

Yep it's all quite vague now. I used to enjoy putting faces to surnames, recognising geneology taking pride in the surnames when the credits roll on some classic film... its becoming immensely difficult. Some Spanish kid named Johnjo Finn who looks more like he may have emerged from the amazonian thicket is sure to confuse

mugsymugsy

Irish mother. Scottish father. Born/lived in uk for 25 years. Married to Irish and have kid born here and lived here last 10 years and have an Irish passport....conclusion I'm a mongrel!

XxMCRxBabyxX

I've dealt with this debate so many times. I was born in Botswana to Irish parents and moved to Ireland when I was 10. I travelled to Ireland every summer, my name is as Irish as can be, I've had an Irish passport since birth, I was taught Irish as a child and was surrounded by Irish people and culture as my parents were very involved in the local Irish society. I was once even accused of having a thick Irish accent (though I really didn't). I only ever considered myself Irish and it was a strong part of my identity. I don't even have any rights to citizenship in Botswana and never had.

There's no way that I could be called Setswana yet I was told that I couldn't be Irish either. Every situation is different but how you identify will depend on your personal experience and often the children of Irish emigrants will be taught more about their culture and heritage than those "home-grown". An accent can't immediately put you in a certain box any more than a birth cert can.

FunLover18

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

It really shouldn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Nationality is subjective and despite what some people think, not a competitive sport. It cannot be measured or weighed.

buried

FunLover18 wrote: »

It really shouldn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Nationality is subjective and despite what some people think, not a competitive sport. It cannot be measured or weighed.

What are you on about? Of course it can be measured and weighed, its certainly measured and weighed going through passport control at the near 20,000 international airports all throughout the globe. You or I are hardly going to go over to China as an Irish person and start trying to claim we are Chinese now are we, you'll be given short shrift at that type of sort of new fandangle logic you've been fed from wherever you've been eating.

Bobblehats

Ì

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Morrisey? Jonny marr? Johnny rotten? Mani? English

Mozzer's Irish; his auld lad is from around the corner. Grew up next to Robbie Keane's family the two are related. Record makers and breakers alike gary Mounfield often referred to me as his cousin which just isn't true, though the eyes do have it to a degree. He found his true family eventually

Ash.J.Williams

Bobblehats wrote: »

Ì

Mozzer's Irish; his auld lad is from around the corner. Grew up next to Robbie Keane's family the two are related. Record makers and breakers alike gary Mounfield often referred to me as his cousin which just isn't true, though the eyes do have it to a degree. He found his true family eventually

Mozzer is English like john Lydon

Bobblehats

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Mozzer is English like john Lydon

Johnny rotten is a paddy

Ash.J.Williams

He’s English

Bobblehats

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

He’s English

Bit of both I suppose. Hard to tell the difference when that closely related

Get Real

Going by your parameters for a person born to Irish couple in England: I'd consider a person born here to say, Polish parents, Nigerian parents etc and raised here, with an Irish accent as Irish

So, I suppose the person raised in England would be English, with Irish blood.

But ultimately its down to the person as what they identify as I think. And would love to think they embrace both cultures.

FunLover18

buried wrote: »

What are you on about? Of course it can be measured and weighed, its certainly measured and weighed going through passport control at the near 20,000 international airports all throughout the globe. You or I are hardly going to go over to China as an Irish person and start trying to claim we are Chinese now are we, you'll be given short shrift at that type of sort of new fandangle logic you've been fed from wherever you've been eating.

Nationality is a very broad term, of course we have things like passports and citizenship and milestones you have to reach before applying for such things but there's no barometer in terms of one's own feelings. Neither one of us is going to suddenly claim to be Chinese out of nowhere but in terms of the example in the OP where one has a good reason to consider themselves Irish due to parentage or residency, there's no way to measure how Irish they feel against how Irish anybody else feels.

buried

FunLover18 wrote: »

Nationality is a very broad term, of course we have things like passports and citizenship and milestones you have to reach before applying for such things but there's no barometer in terms of one's own feelings. Neither one of us is going to suddenly claim to be Chinese out of nowhere but in terms of the example in the OP where one has a good reason to consider themselves Irish due to parentage or residency, there's no way to measure how Irish they feel against how Irish anybody else feels.

Okay, lets say I start to "feel" like I'm Chinese, according to my "feelings" am I automatically then a 'Chinese' person?

Hamsterchops

Bobblehats wrote: »

Johnny rotten is a paddy

A very English paddy.

firemansam4

I was born in England, Irish mum and English dad. We all moved over as a family when I was 16, and I have been living in Ireland now for over 25 years. I still have a quite a strong english accent, something I have not been able to shake off.
I think ive always considered myself more Irish, and would only support Irish teams ect.

But whenever I meet anyone who doesn't know me that well they would always asume im English and would say things like Do you go home to England often?
I actually dont even try to explain things now, I just say I havent been back to England for a while, or if someone asks me how England got on in the football, i just say I never seen the game instead of explaining I actually support Ireland.

The strange thing now is that my children have a bit of my english accent as well, even though they have only been on holiday in England for about 2 weeks. I actually hope they lose that part of their accent.