Ballymurphy massacre

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

some murder victims have been done a greater injustice than others.

The Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday families were told their loved ones were gunmen/women and bombers and were legitimately killed.

It took decades to have their good names returned to them.

Do you understand this?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday families were told their loved ones were gunmen/women and bombers and were legitimately killed.

It took decades to have their good names returned to them.

Do you understand this?

We lived through terrible times.

You do realise £100,000,000s have been spent on enquiries into BS etc This is not tenable. If those amounts were spent looking into all the killings of innocence in ni it would pale covid costs into insignificance.

Miniegg

BonnieSituation wrote:

Can you take that to the appropriate thread and stop besmirching the memory of those 10 people MURDERED by the British State for no reason other than they were Irish in Belfast in the 1970's.

BonnieSituation wrote:

You know one of the victims of the State sanctioned massacre was in the British Army himself? You knew that right?

I believe at least two Ballymurphy victims were British army veterans (one had even lost a hand in service) , and a third victim was the son of a British army veteran.

I can't get my head around the view that those seeking justice for these men is "demonising" British veterans, but the UK murdering veterans and calling them IRA bombers for 50 years is grand, nothing to see here? Why are veterans who are proven murderers more important than veterans who were murdered, I wonder?

Miniegg

downcow wrote:

You do realise £100,000,000s have been spent on enquiries into BS etc This is not tenable. If those amounts were spent looking into all the killings of innocence in ni it would pale covid costs into insignificance.

downcow wrote:

We lived through terrible times.

Yup it's much cheaper to smear the victims and their families alright.

But then again, why should the enquiries cost 'billions' when the UK already have the evidence of this massacre, but have decided to seal the documents for 100 years.

Barry904

downcow wrote: »

The ira have not disbanded and well you know it

You really do give me a good laugh on here.

Barry904

Miniegg wrote: »

Yup it's much cheaper to smear the victims and their families alright.

But then again, why should the enquiries cost 'billions' when the UK already have the evidence of this massacre, but have decided to seal the documents for 100 years.

The Kingsmill Massacre is one of the events of the troubles that has been covered up more than anything, there are a lot of secrets about that massacre the Brits don't want to come out what them secrets are I'm not sure.

Alan Black, the only survivor of Kingsmill, believes that the IRA members (if they were even IRA members at all) involved in the massacre were double agents working for the British state, the man who was overseeing the operation had a crisp British accent which no one would have ever known about if Alan Black didn't survive despite being shot nearly 20 times.

He believes there was a "cover up" and that British security forces knew the massacre was going to happen but allowed it to, Karen Armstrong, sister of victim John McConville, said: "A lot of people were being protected back then and they still are".

It has been suggested that the gunman with the English accent could have been British Intelligence officer Robert Nairac, John Weir, a former RUC officer and member of the "Glenanne gang", claims he discovered that British Intelligence, through Nairac, was "playing republican and loyalist paramilitaries off against each other".

All the files related to Kingsmill had been destroyed\lost, the reason for the state doing so would have been to drain IRA support thus making it weaker while turning the guerilla war against the state into a sectarian conflict slowly draining IRA support down to nil thus defeating them and ending the resistance.

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

We lived through terrible times.

You do realise £100,000,000s have been spent on enquiries into BS etc This is not tenable. If those amounts were spent looking into all the killings of innocence in ni it would pale covid costs into insignificance.

What sort of weasel words are "we lived through terrible times"!? What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Do you think at all that state sanctioned murder might have in some way contributed to the times being so "terrible"?

50 years of denigration, defilement, lies, obstruction and cover up waved away blithely in a blink by downcow as "terrible times" as if one doesn't cause the other.

What sort of parallel universe do you occupy?

BonnieSituation

lawred2 wrote: »

What sort of weasel words are "we lived through terrible times"!? What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Do you think at all that state sanctioned murder might have in some way contributed to the times being so "terrible"?

50 years of denigration, defilement, lies, obstruction and cover up waved away blithely in a blink by downcow as "terrible times" as if one doesn't cause the other.

What sort of parallel universe do you occupy?

Same way the British can refer to a Civil War within their jurisdiction as "The Troubles". Same way that our Taoiseach can refer to the "Ballymurphy Situation".

If what went on in the NE of this country was happening anywhere else on the planet you'd have the Brits and Yanks intervening with some sort of diplomatic magic wand, pretending that they didn't cause it in the first place.

The biggest scandal was that it started at all and then let continue for 30 years as a fait accompli.

ILoveYourVibes

It just occurred to me that its TWO massacres now that parachute regiment have been responsible for. And the NEXT king of England is still a member. Not a word of apology about it or any distancing of himself from the regiment. He still appears in military garb on formal occasion.

My condolences to the families.

Baggly

Mod

My advice to everyone in this thread is to get back on topic (the Ballymurphy massacre) and calm it down / remain civil in discussing points.

Deviation from the above will mean people will lose their posting privileges.

Barry904

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It just occurred to me that its TWO massacres now that parachute regiment have been responsible for. And the NEXT king of England is still a member. Not a word of apology about it or any distancing of himself from the regiment. He still appears in military garb on formal occasion.

My condolences to the families.

Also the springhill massacre less than a year after this one.

A 13 year old girl was killed by the paras.

firemansam4

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It just occurred to me that its TWO massacres now that parachute regiment have been responsible for. And the NEXT king of England is still a member. Not a word of apology about it or any distancing of himself from the regiment. He still appears in military garb on formal occasion.

My condolences to the families.

Yes but the IRA something something, It was 50 years ago something something else....

Miniegg

Barry904 wrote: »

Also the springhill massacre less than a year after this one.

A 13 year old girl was killed by the paras.

...and shot dead two innocent Protestants in Shankill and wounded two more.
The UDR refused to carry out patrols in the area until they were removed - they were animals.

It is not uncommon to see banners supporting "soldier F" (he is the one believe carried out most of the killings) among those who want to protect the British Government from this mess. Apparently these aren't tolerated in Shankill out of respect to the Protestant families whose relations were murdered.

Barry904

Miniegg wrote: »

...and shot dead two innocent Protestants in Shankill and wounded two more.
The UDR refused to carry out patrols in the area until they were removed - they were animals.

It is not uncommon to see banners supporting "soldier F" (he is the one believe carried out most of the killings) among those who want to protect the British Government from this mess. Apparently these aren't tolerated in Shankill out of respect to the Protestant families whose relations were murdered.

Apart from a few locals on the shankill nobody cared, loyalist politicians didn't speak about it.

The paras were obviously crazed lunatics put there by the government to terrorise the Catholic population.

How they could go on blatantly and obviously murdering innocent people for years and then the murderers being given medals by the queen herself for their "good work".

There were thousands of violent assualts by them against innocent catholics.

volchitsa

Barry904 wrote: »

Apart from a few locals on the shankill nobody cared, loyalist politicians didn't speak about it.

The paras were obviously crazed lunatics put there by the government to terrorise the Catholic population.

How they could go on blatantly and obviously murdering innocent people for years and then the murderers being given medals by the queen herself for their "good work".

There were thousands of violent assualts by them against innocent catholics.

That doesn’t in any way contradict the post you’re replying to (maybe you were agreeing with it and if so my apologies but it looks like you’re saying that those two murders of Protestants were accidents or something).

IMV they weren’t - that’s what happens when you put psychopaths in the position of power that the Paras were in: they’re going to kill people, including people you didn’t want them to go for. They enjoy their job. So then the higher ups have to cover for them there too because the whole truth mustn’t be allowed to come out. And they know that.

Barry904

volchitsa wrote: »

That doesn’t in any way contradict the post you’re replying to (maybe you were agreeing with it and if so my apologies but it looks like you’re saying that those two murders of Protestants were accidents or something).

IMV they weren’t - that’s what happens when you put psychopaths in the position of power that the Paras were in: they’re going to kill people, including people you didn’t want them to go for. They enjoy their job. So then the higher ups have to cover for them there too because the whole truth mustn’t be allowed to come out. And they know that.

This is one of the very few incidents of BA violence against protestants brushed under the carpet by both loyalist politicians and shankill representatives no one cared about it really at the time or anytime for that matter.

Miniegg

Barry904 wrote: »

This is one of the very few incidents of BA violence against protestants brushed under the carpet by both loyalist politicians and shankill representatives no one cared about it really at the time or anytime for that matter.

That's very grim. Did the Loyalist/ British government claim they were terrorists etc or how was it swept under the carpet?

At least the families in Ballymurphy hopefully get some solace knowing that they have alot of people supporting them in their quest for justice, however little that would mean to them.

Must be very hard for the families in Shankill whose loved ones were killed and they received no support. They deserve justice and recognition from the British state the same as any families involved with Ballymurphy / Bloody Sunday etc.

guy2231

Miniegg wrote: »

That's very grim. Did the Loyalist/ British government claim they were terrorists etc or how was it swept under the carpet?

At least the families in Ballymurphy hopefully get some solace knowing that they have alot of people supporting them in their quest for justice, however little that would mean to them.

Must be very hard for the families in Shankill whose loved ones were killed and they received no support. They deserve justice and recognition from the British state the same as any families involved with Ballymurphy / Bloody Sunday etc.

Swept under the carpet as in Loyalist politicians and Shankill representatives kept quiet about it also the BA calling them terrorists and then saying no more about it is basically sweeping it under the carpet.

Baggly

Mod

Please return to the topic of this thread.