Will coffee shops survive?

caviardreams

James 007 wrote: »

That care free attitude about spending was around 2000 to 2008, then when everything crashed people changed their attitude, most of those young people were in school when the crash happened. Now those that you feel are older haven't learnt the lessons from the last crash. I don't mind having a coffee out, but I treat it as a treat when meeting someone, out for a cycle during a weekend but having coffees out during the working week is such a waste of your hard earned money.

they obviously get value from it in some way though otherwise they wouldn't do it? Value is subjective and different to everyone. Some people think a high end car brings is great value - others think cars are a waste of money full stop.

Hodors Appletart

I disagree that shop bought coffee is a waste of money - well, coffee bought from a proper indie coffee shop that's not all about the milky sugary mochachocaskinnyfrappalatte stuff - I nice single origin or well thought out blend from a shop like 3FE or similar is absolutely worth the spend, especially if you don't have the equipment at home.

I wouldn't go every day because I can and do make great coffee myself at home, so it's a treat.

whisky_galore

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Disgraceful to see the amount of coffee cups around the place destroying the environment

+1
Place is full of discarded cups. There needs to be a tax put on them and an incentive for reusable cups. It wouldn't be a huge ask for stall operators to take a cup, rinse it and fill it with their overpriced sludge

Tec Diver

They were/are really overpriced for what you get. Having a coffee has become a social norm, and until that changes we will be paying high prices and coffee shops cash in.

lisasimpson

whisky_galore wrote: »

+1
Place is full of discarded cups. There needs to be a tax put on them and an incentive for reusable cups. It wouldn't be a huge ask for stall operators to take a cup, rinse it and fill it with their overpriced sludge

Are there many coffee shops allowing you to bring your own cup. This was starting to gain momentum a year or 2 before covid but once covid hit it was reusable cups only

Hodors Appletart

On the reusable cup thing, in fairness every shop stopped handling them when the pandemic hit, I certainly remember about 6-12 months before Covid at least some shops were giving a discount to people with reusable cups.

whisky_galore

lisasimpson wrote: »

Are there many coffee shops allowing you to bring your own cup. This was starting to gain momentum a year or 2 before covid but once covid hit it was reusable cups only

Got one in my own cup about 3 weeks ago.
I'd put it down to laziness on part of customers or they're afraid to ask.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

+1
Place is full of discarded cups. There needs to be a tax put on them and an incentive for reusable cups. It wouldn't be a huge ask for stall operators to take a cup, rinse it and fill it with their overpriced sludge

most coffee cups are compostable now, at least in my locality

obviously doesnt mean you toss it away, and our collective attitude to littering is pretty appalling, but they are not the environmental threat that they once were

I get a coffee a day (during the week) - its the walk through the park and the ritual and the chats with the guys in the coffee shop as much as it is the coffee itself. That is part of the €3 for me

Hodors Appletart

Are you sure they are compostable here?

I know a person who was involved with the introduction of compostable cups to a certain petrol chain (rhymes with mapplemreen) and they ordered a load of supposedly compostable cups, but nowhere in Ireland had the facility to actually use them in compost.

As with all recycling etc, not everything is always as it seems

Black Sheep

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

On the reusable cup thing, in fairness every shop stopped handling them when the pandemic hit, I certainly remember about 6-12 months before Covid at least some shops were giving a discount to people with reusable cups.

Agree with this. There was huge momentum around this, and the pandemic was an unexpected set back.

fits

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

Are you sure they are compostable here?

I know a person who was involved with the introduction of compostable cups to a certain petrol chain (rhymes with mapplemreen) and they ordered a load of supposedly compostable cups, but nowhere in Ireland had the facility to actually use them in compost.

As with all recycling etc, not everything is always as it seems

A lot of them are compostable only in industrial facilities. Ie you can’t throw them on the heap out the back. Reusable cups were really gaining traction before the pandemic. Seems like little reason not to start up again since fomites seem to be a negligible factor.

whisky_galore

I very much doubt the ones I see fcuked around are compostable. Certainly not the plastic tops anyhow.

The cups I buy for home are definitely compostable, having a quick look it would be hard to find ones that aren’t.

cuculainn

Keyzer wrote: »

I got a moka pot about a year ago, best purchase I made. Made me realise how easy it is to make a superb cup of coffee at a fraction of the cost of takeaway. And astounded me how so many establishments manage to make a sh1t cup given the price your paying.

Any tips on how to get superb coffee from a moka pot?
I get boiled tar from mine!!!

El_Duderino 09

cuculainn wrote: »

Any tips on how to get superb coffee from a moka pot?
I get boiled tar from mine!!!

You've got espressos. So add a shot of espresso to a cup of water for an Americano?

Hodors Appletart

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The cups I buy for home are definitely compostable, having a quick look it would be hard to find ones that aren’t.

For home?

Why are you using single use cups at home, in any form?

Hodors Appletart

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

For home?

Why are you using single use cups at home, in any form?

I just prefer to drink from them and I don’t find a porcelain or “keep” cup pleasant to drink from. 90% of the time I’m taking one in the car with me anyway. Plus, they’re compostable.

Responder XY

I like my specialty/third wave coffee and think it's good value for €3.00ish for all the reasons folks have outlined above. You just can't replicate that at home without a significant investment in equipment that would take a while to pay for itself even with take out coffee at that cost. 
Thinking you can get the same quality from bean to cup machine or a moka pot is ludicrous, fair enough if you don't like coffee/just want the caffeine. Filter/Aeropress is probably the best that can be managed at a lower cost at home (Still require good beans though which are a minimum of €9 for 250g, usually more than that)

But having said that, I don't know how all the coffee shops will survive. Within 500m of my front door there are (at least) 26 different outlets selling barista made coffee, all at >€2.50 a cup. Admittedly I do live in an urban location that's considered quite hipster and has a good mix of offices and accommodation so has dealt with the pandemic reasonably well, but I've just no idea how they all survive. 
Quality amongst the 26 is mixed, I haven't tried them all, but only a small handful would I never go back to but 3 or 4 really stand out and tend to go to them most.

ckeego

whisky_galore wrote: »

Got one in my own cup about 3 weeks ago.
I'd put it down to laziness on part of customers or they're afraid to ask.

Incorrect.

Many shops have specific signs stating no reusable cups due Covid.

ckeego

cuculainn wrote: »

Any tips on how to get superb coffee from a moka pot?
I get boiled tar from mine!!!

Lower the temperature on the stove and don’t rush it.
Also make sure the grind is correct and the coffee is tamped down and not just heaped in.
Experiment a bit with the grind and the amount of coffee.
My son uses a stove top and I can honestly say it’s one of the nicest coffees (including the €4+ ones!!) that I’ve tasted.

whisky_galore

ckeego wrote: »

Incorrect.

Many shops have specific signs stating no reusable cups due Covid.

Well I wouldn't use them then.

MrMusician18

Coffee shops aren't going away but the market is completely saturated. Consequently we will see a lot of business failures in this sector.

We've been here before, doughnuts was the last one.

Granadino

Don't mind your Nespressos and all those fancy coffee pod machines, where you have to recycle loads of plastic anyhow.
Just get the classic mediterranean coffee pot. Job done. Don't mind your piss pods.

Yyhhuuu

ckeego wrote: »

Incorrect.

Many shops have specific signs stating no reusable cups due Covid.

These business are really clueless. The risk of Covid from Fomites as they're referred to is minimal. What about if the operator handles a psper cup and then handles cash? What's the difference with a reusable cup and cash? Social distancing, mask and ventilation far more important. These very same coffee shops have their doors closed. These signs are only to make the customer feel safe. They're not mandated by the state.

El Tarangu

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I just prefer to drink from them and I don’t find a porcelain or “keep” cup pleasant to drink from. 90% of the time I’m taking one in the car with me anyway. Plus, they’re compostable.

Jesus Christ - no wonder the planet is f**ked; do you have any idea how much emissions are produced chopping down a tree, processing it into paper, and then shipping that half way around the world?

El Tarangu

El Tarangu wrote: »

Jesus Christ - no wonder the planet is f**ked; do you have any idea how much emissions are produced chopping down a tree, processing it into paper, and then shipping that half way around the world?

I don’t like drinking out of the other ones and to be honest it’s something I have no interest in. It has nothing to do with the price and status of coffee shops anyway and if I don’t litter with them then I’m more than happy, plus I’m saving loads not buying many out.


.

enricoh

caviardreams wrote: »

they obviously get value from it in some way though otherwise they wouldn't do it? Value is subjective and different to everyone. Some people think a high end car brings is great value - others think cars are a waste of money full stop.

It's no skin off my nose, but 2 coffees a day is the guts of e8 , 5 times a week is 40, so the guts of 2k a year (after tax!).
horses for courses, but a lot of them would be young and on modest enough salaries. It seems a lot to spend on something they can get in the office for free.

shesty

The appearance of the Flat White was a jaw dropper for me.
Smaller than a cappucino, but the same price at 3.20.
Explain, please.It's just a very rip-off cappucino (and I like my coffee and am willing to pay!).
Lately I bought a milk frother/warmer for my house in Harvey Norman, and we have a moka pot.I am happy out and it is saving me a fortune.I may commit to a coffee machine in the future but while I dither, this set-up will do me.

thomil

There's one aspect about coffee shops that hasn't been addressed at all in this thread yet, namely the social & demographics side of the coin.

Particularly in the large "metropolitan" areas of Ireland, a lot of people, primarily the younger generations, are forced to live in shared and/or sub-standard apartments. This means that they have little to no personal space to invite friends over or study. Coffee shops, particularly those with a larger footprint, offer a safe and pleasant environment for that, whether it's meeting friends, or just hunkering down with a laptop and a notepad to get some studying done. The fact that noise levels in a cafe have been found to increase creativity and productivity (Mehta, Zhu, et. al., 2012, published in Journal of Consumer Research) further reinforces that trend.

Then, there's the demographics aspect. Back when I last actually sat down in a cafe back in December 2020, a lot of the customers there seemed to be either French or Spanish, who will most likely be used to dropping into a cafe from back home anyway. Hell, even I'm used to whiling away an afternoon in a cafe from my school days in Austria, so this group of customers alone will keep frequenting coffee shops no matter what.

So yes, coffee shops will survive, and will likely become a permanent fixture in Ireland. Granted, not every cafe will be successful, not every location is suited for it, but on the whole, they're here to stay and I for one can't wait to get back into one and actually sit down with a coffee!

shesty

shesty wrote: »

The appearance of the Flat White was a jaw dropper for me.
Smaller than a cappucino, but the same price at 3.20.
Explain, please.It's just a very rip-off cappucino (and I like my coffee and am willing to pay!).
Lately I bought a milk frother/warmer for my house in Harvey Norman, and we have a moka pot.I am happy out and it is saving me a fortune.I may commit to a coffee machine in the future but while I dither, this set-up will do me.

Are the flat whites (our version anyway) supposed to have piles of milk? I got one the other day that was well over half milk but I don’t remember them like that when they appeared first.