Will coffee shops survive?

El Tarangu

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I don’t like drinking out of the other ones and to be honest it’s something I have no interest in. It has nothing to do with the price and status of coffee shops anyway and if I don’t litter with them then I’m more than happy, plus I’m saving loads not buying many out.


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Do you know what - in a way my reaction was over the top; what you is essentially the same waste as people who purchase takeaway coffee every day.

ckeego

shesty wrote: »

The appearance of the Flat White was a jaw dropper for me.
Smaller than a cappucino, but the same price at 3.20.
Explain, please.It's just a very rip-off cappucino (and I like my coffee and am willing to pay!).
Lately I bought a milk frother/warmer for my house in Harvey Norman, and we have a moka pot.I am happy out and it is saving me a fortune.I may commit to a coffee machine in the future but while I dither, this set-up will do me.

Now multiply that further when you are charged 50c-€1 extra for the spit of oat milk in a macchiato..

Was talking to a barista about this yesterday and there are some dairy full milks that actually cost more than oat milk...

El Tarangu

El Tarangu wrote: »

Do you know what - in a way my reaction was over the top; what you is essentially the same waste as people who purchase takeaway coffee every day.

I reuse each cup minimum 5 times too, same if I buy a coffee in one (except insomnia as they leak). It’s not ideal but I can’t explain it - I just only like drinking it from them.

cmac2009

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Are the flat whites (our version anyway) supposed to have piles of milk? I got one the other day that was well over half milk but I don’t remember them like that when they appeared first.

Typically they should be in or around 150ml-170ml. But it varies widely.

whisky_galore

thomil wrote: »

There's one aspect about coffee shops that hasn't been addressed at all in this thread yet, namely the social & demographics side of the coin.

Particularly in the large "metropolitan" areas of Ireland, a lot of people, primarily the younger generations, are forced to live in shared and/or sub-standard apartments. This means that they have little to no personal space to invite friends over or study. Coffee shops, particularly those with a larger footprint, offer a safe and pleasant environment for that, whether it's meeting friends, or just hunkering down with a laptop and a notepad to get some studying done. The fact that noise levels in a cafe have been found to increase creativity and productivity (Mehta, Zhu, et. al., 2012, published in Journal of Consumer Research) further reinforces that trend.

Then, there's the demographics aspect. Back when I last actually sat down in a cafe back in December 2020, a lot of the customers there seemed to be either French or Spanish, who will most likely be used to dropping into a cafe from back home anyway. Hell, even I'm used to whiling away an afternoon in a cafe from my school days in Austria, so this group of customers alone will keep frequenting coffee shops no matter what.

So yes, coffee shops will survive, and will likely become a permanent fixture in Ireland. Granted, not every cafe will be successful, not every location is suited for it, but on the whole, they're here to stay and I for one can't wait to get back into one and actually sit down with a coffee!

I can see why the shops, the good ones, will survive.

The plethora of horseboxes and vans that people have left their office jobs and pinned their hopes and dreams to, maybe not so much, once the pandemic is behind us.

caviardreams

Coffee is an experience, moving beyond the take away argument, it's a place to work, get a break from the home office (which is like here to stay), a change of scene, a social space. It's actually pretty cheap in that regard versus a pub or restaurant.

Completely agree that the lesser quality / service places may likely close like in any industry but the top service / quality offerings will survive.

shesty

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Are the flat whites (our version anyway) supposed to have piles of milk? I got one the other day that was well over half milk but I don’t remember them like that when they appeared first.

As I understood it they aren't supposed to, but I have also had a couple that are the same size as a medium cappucino and full of milk.Generally they are a small size cup though, with less milk I think.Which begs the question why I am being charged 3.20 for one.(I don't buy them anymore).
So....yeah.

ckeego

shesty wrote: »

As I understood it they aren't supposed to, but I have also had a couple that are the same size as a medium cappucino and full of milk.Generally they are a small size cup though, with less milk I think.Which begs the question why I am being charged 3.20 for one.(I don't buy them anymore).
So....yeah.

Believe me, €3.20 is “skinny” for a flat white in some places..

And it’s interesting that around about that price point, some folk are saying “I’m out”

That’s the original point I was attempting to make-not really that coffee joints will disappear, more that some of the pricing and sharp practices will put some of them out of business.

El_Duderino 09

caviardreams wrote: »

Coffee is an experience, moving beyond the take away argument, it's a place to work, get a break from the home office (which is like here to stay), a change of scene, a social space. It's actually pretty cheap in that regard versus a pub or restaurant.

Completely agree that the lesser quality / service places may likely close like in any industry but the top service / quality offerings will survive.

That's a bit idealistic. It's not as simple as high quality = most likely to survive. Marketing, recognisability (chains), standardised menus in chains and franchises mean they're most likely to survive above a unique, small, high quality high cost cafe. The Starbucks "experienve" gives it an advantage, for example.

Restaurants have been around a long time and McDonald's does great business without having high quality or high cost food.

caviardreams

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's a bit idealistic. It's not as simple as high quality = most likely to survive. Marketing, recognisability (chains), standardised menus in chains and franchises mean they're most likely to survive above a unique, small, high quality high cost cafe. The Starbucks "experienve" gives it an advantage, for example.

Restaurants have been around a long time and McDonald's does great business without having high quality or high cost food.

Yes that's why I said top service or quality places will survive - cafes that provide a valued service (service being based on value for money, convenience, widespread availability, quality customer service, soft furnishings, whatever!) will continue to do well. It's about providing something people want to pay for - that's not necessarily just top quality, specialty coffee, but there are lots of cafes that don't offer either quality or service differentiation and these may fall by the wayside due to competition.

Mister Vain

shesty wrote: »

The appearance of the Flat White was a jaw dropper for me.
Smaller than a cappucino, but the same price at 3.20.
Explain, please.It's just a very rip-off cappucino (and I like my coffee and am willing to pay!).
Lately I bought a milk frother/warmer for my house in Harvey Norman, and we have a moka pot.I am happy out and it is saving me a fortune.I may commit to a coffee machine in the future but while I dither, this set-up will do me.

Costa do a nice big flat white. They seem to be tiny everywhere else so I usually get a cappuccino.