Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Shebean

tara2k wrote: »

Why do so many people have an issue with Israel defending itself?

Where did you read that?
It's Israel evicting people and destroying homes to take the land for settlers, people have issue with.

Hqrry113

end of the road wrote: »

because iran is open about what it is and doesn't pretend to be a western style country, it is open about being a rogue state.
israel pretends to be a western style democracy all the while engaging in war crimes on a daily basis along with all possible human rights abuses, breaches of international law and human rights law, colonisation, expansion of it's borders at will, demolition of minorities homes within it's borders, arrests and abuse of children, stealing people's land, and loads more.
that is why it could be argued that israel is worse then it's neighbours, because while their neighbours behave awefully no question, they are somewhat open about what they believe, even if some states try and make out they are welcoming to westerners themselves.




nope.
while some people certainly have a problem with jews and they are wrong, the criticism of israel is based on it's behaviour, and comes from plenty of people who have no issue with jews what soever.




thankfully no other, but then again most first world countries don't engage in the actions israel engage in.
however the good news is that israel knows what it must do to at least help stop rockets being fired at it.



the last time israel went up against Hizbollah they got their arses handed to them dispite being a much much stronger force.
that is why there is no fighting between them and israel, because israel won't be so stupid as to expand that way for now.
if israel does, they will get their arses handed to them again.

Got a good laugh out of this one "Isreal pretends to be a western style democracy", how exactly do they pretend? By crushing the civilian population of foreign Arab countries in the exact same manner as the countries like the USA, France and the UK do?

Overheal

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Please think of my mama who is safe in a bomb proof bunker..

Also, tries to blame Hamas and PA having internal fighting for the Israeli forces evicting people by force, by brutalising people worshipping in a mosque..

Puke inducing bullsh!t.

She kicks up the screed when he asks about cracking down on the mosques.

Even she knows the reasons are bull****, the reasons are all wrapped up in ego and rage.

Shebean

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The aim of Hamas is to destroy Israel and kill all Jews not just in Israel but in the entire world. Not only that. Hamas also seek the conquest of the entire world for Islam.
Hamas ideologically are no different than the Taliban Boko Haram Al Qaeda and ISIS.

Do you think if Israel treated Palestinians with the same rights as it's own citizens and stopped taking Palestinian homes and land to give to settlers, support for Hamas and attacks might drop off?

Odhinn

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The aim of Hamas is to destroy Israel and kill all Jews not just in Israel but in the entire world. Not only that. Hamas also seek the conquest of the entire world for Islam.
Hamas ideologically are no different than the Taliban Boko Haram Al Qaeda and ISIS.

ISIS view Palestinians en masse as apostate.



You might explain why Israel is colonising the occupied territories, the majority of which is not under Hamas control. These colonies far predate the existence of Hamas.

tara2k wrote: »

Why do so many people have an issue with Israel defending itself?

...because its acting as an aggressor (eg evictions in Arab East Jerusalem, settlement expansion in the West Bank).

Overheal

tara2k wrote: »

Why do so many people have an issue with Israel defending itself?

Defense implies some measure of proportionality and we don't see that with Israel's missile strikes.

Frank Bullitt

tara2k wrote: »

Why do so many people have an issue with Israel defending itself?

Defending itself?

Using jets with advanced bombs to "defend" against people on their knees being persecuted and have their homes taken from them...I think more people have issue with its head use of force more than anything.

And of course, with those bombs killing small children and unarmed civilians.

namloc1980

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The apartment building destroyed by the IDF was a Hamas position. Fair game.

Israel cannot survive without controlling the Jordan River valley and high ground on the west bank. Jerusalem is the historic Jewish capital of Israel and the Temple Mount is where the Second Temple was and where the Third Temple will be built.

So civilians are fair game because of Hamas. No distinction between them in what effectively amounts to collective punishment. What a disgusting viewpoint to hold.

And evicting people from their homes is justified on the basis of some historic status of Jerusalem. Yet another disgusting viewpoint.

Hqrry113

tara2k wrote: »

What other western governments? I think that we, the USA, are on our own on this one. Biden is not going to rock the boat when it comes to Israel.



The Palestinians don't have the resources to defend themselves against Israel. I've lost count of the number of times that they've attached Israel, and Israel have turned around and kicked their ass. They need to sit down and talk with Israel.

The idiocy of the imperialistic zionists in this thread is hard to believe "they need to sit down and talk with Israel" and then what?

Israel is simply going to tell them to **** off and then they are back in the exact same situation they were fighting against.

One thing I don't get though is how horrible the palestinians are at guerrila warfare, I mean why do the hardcore palestinians blow themselves up? If you're already capable of giving your life it would be far better to try and attack, run away and live to fight another day rather than blowing yourself up and then that's that.

Northern Ireland was once the most militarised zone on the planet with the catholic population under constant surveillance yet the IRA were still able to constantly launch successful attacks against the Army and top tier of the British establishment while the palestinians (judging by the statistics) can barely manage to kill a soldier and when they do get someone ballsy enough to attack heavily armed soldiers they simply blow themselves up and then that's him gone.

Housefree

Overheal wrote: »

I do appreciate British punditry, no fear in cutting off bull**** at the heel.

However, I was hoping for a clear response to why they cracked down on Muslims during Ramadan? If anyone knows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XwYNvxnuYM

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group
https://www.ipsc.ie/

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign
https://bdsmovement.net/

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Shebean

Shebean wrote: »

Where did you read that?

Read this thread. Israel was attacked, and it acted in self defense. People seem to have a problem with that.

Shebean wrote: »

It's Israel evicting people and destroying homes to take the land for settlers. people have issue with.

Many of those settlers were aided by Palestinian brokers. I know a couple from the US who were thinking about moving there.

o1s1n

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The apartment building destroyed by the IDF was a Hamas position. Fair game.

Israel cannot survive without controlling the Jordan River valley and high ground on the west bank. Jerusalem is the historic Jewish capital of Israel and the Temple Mount is where the Second Temple was and where the Third Temple will be built.

Jewish biblical 'claims' on the land should have no bearing in the modern world.

Where do we draw the line? Can all religions begin claiming their 'historical lands' if they happen to belong to someone else?

Or are the Jews just special?

Overheal

tara2k wrote: »

Read this thread. Israel was attacked, and it acted in self defense. People seem to have a problem with that.

Do you see no problem with the manner in which Israel has "acted in self defense?"

Hqrry113

I hate isreal they're a pack of bullying cowards but the palestinian resistance is pathetic they seem to have no concept of guerilla warfare and mainly rely on finding suicudal idiots to strap bombs to.

Frank Bullitt

Housefree wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hh0dkscOXw

Aggressive propaganda in all its forms.

Horrible woman, if she is a proper representative of Israel, it tells us all we need to know.

Hqrry113

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Israel is simply going to tell them to **** off and then they are back in the exact same situation they were fighting against.

If they continue along this path, its only a matter of time before Israel populates the rest of the land. As I said above, I know a couple who were thinking of moving there. From talking to them, the transaction was as easy as buying a home anywhere, and a Palestinian broker was facilitating it.

Hqrry113 wrote: »

One thing I don't get though is how horrible the palestinians are at guerrila warfare, I mean why do the hardcore palestinians blow themselves up?

I know and I agree, which is why I suggested that they sit down and talk. What have they got to lose?

randd1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I rarely watch mainstream news, but I was surprised how little coverage there seems to be of this, judging online here.

People are bored with them. It’s the same old story that’s been told a hundred times before. There’s nothing new.

Two murderous tribes who hate each other and are intent on killing each other over religion and other such things.

And it will calm down in a few weeks. And then kick off again in a few months, in the same way with the same response.

And people with no skin in the game over here will roll their eyes, say to themselves “them crazy bastards are at it again” and watch something else in telly they haven’t seen before.

A sad state of affairs all round.

Hqrry113

randd1 wrote: »

People are bored with them. It’s the same old story that’s been told a hundred times before. There’s nothing new.

Two murderous tribes who hate each other and are intent on killing each other over religion and other such things.

And it will calm down in a few weeks. And then kick off again in a few months, in the same way with the same response.

And people with no skin in the game over here will roll their eyes, say to themselves “them crazy bastards are at it again” and watch something else in telly they haven’t seen before.

A sad state of affairs all round.

Nothing to do with religion, if you have no clue what you're talking about it's best to say nothing at all.

MeMen2_MoRi_

tara2k wrote: »

Why do so many people have an issue with Israel defending itself?

I've an issue when Israel is the instigator, this didn't start with Hamas firing rockets, it started days before with evictions of Palestinians by force from their homes. It escalated to the point where people were worshipping at the mosque and they were attacked there by Israeli forces..

randd1

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Nothing to do with religion, if you have no clue what you're talking about it's best to say nothing at all.

Really? Nothing to do with religion?

Best to follow your own advice there chum and say nothing.

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

Jewish biblical 'claims' on the land should have no bearing in the modern world.

Where do we draw the line? Can all religions begin claiming their 'historical lands' if they happen to belong to someone else?

Or are the Jews just special?

You don't get to draw any line. Like it or not, those biblical 'claims' are important to some people. They mean nothing to you, and me, but that doesn't mean that they are not important.

wes

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The aim of Hamas is to destroy Israel and kill all Jews not just in Israel but in the entire world. Not only that. Hamas also seek the conquest of the entire world for Islam.

https://twitter.com/theIMEU/status/1392552677167489032?s=20

Always amusing that apologists for Zionists pretend that Israel doesn't want Arabs dead as well.

This kind of carry on from Zionists has going on for weeks, since Israel started to try and ethnically cleanse Sheikh Jarrah.

Zionism is a racists ideology, no different than the likes of the KKK, and their aim no different than what Europeans did to native Americans.

Hamas is not trying to conquer the world. They are hateful racist assholes, but they are a nationalist movement. They could care less about the rest of the world, and their ideology is distinct from ISIS and their ilk. In fact ISIS think Hamas aren't extreme enough and have actually attacked Hamas in the past. It amazing the nonsense some people will spout here, thinking no one will call them on their bull****.

Frank Bullitt

randd1 wrote: »

People are bored with them. It’s the same old story that’s been told a hundred times before. There’s nothing new.

Two murderous tribes who hate each other and are intent on killing each other over religion and other such things.

And it will calm down in a few weeks. And then kick off again in a few months, in the same way with the same response.

And people with no skin in the game over here will roll their eyes, say to themselves “them crazy bastards are at it again” and watch something else in telly they haven’t seen before.

A sad state of affairs all round.

Jesus, how can someone be so brazen about the slaughter of people like this?

Israel does nothing but fan the flames to then give them a reason to use their Air Force to drop bombs on buildings where they THINK there might be a terrorist...just ignore the innocent people all around, they don't matter.

They have a rap sheet of this the length of the M50. Why do we see representatives go on news channels and just so animated when they are called out on it? That is the act of a right wing state, and a leader who is on thin ice as it is.

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs, but it is only made worse by one side, and they do this so they can use brutal force against a desperate people.

Stovepipe

J Mysterio wrote: »

Fair play to Sturgeon for being straight up on this - none of the 'both sides' rubbish.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1391012494345388035?s=20

Don't forget to wag the finger at those hateful Syrians for,youve guessing it, flattening mosques......oh, wait, the rioters had collected their stones and other weapons in the mosques? Bit naughty, that. Hamas rocket firers seem to have no problem firing at Israeli synagogues. Just saying.

Mimon

Housefree wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XwYNvxnuYM

How can anyone condone that? It's terrorism plain and simple. Israel is a fkn blight on the planet.

Shebean

tara2k wrote: »

Read this thread. Israel was attacked, and it acted in self defense. People seem to have a problem with that.



Many of those settlers were aided by Palestinian brokers. I know a couple from the US who were thinking about moving there.

Israel evicted Palestinians, demolished their homes and took the land for settlers, (an ongoing issue). There was a court case due last Monday and it was postponed for another month. People protested, there was violence. It escalated. We are were we are because Israel treats Palestinians as lesser beings and evicts it's people.




Might as well tell us the one where Palestinians aren't a real people. Skip to the chase.

cnocbui

This whole thing is just a deliberate attempt by Netanyahu to hold on to power.

4th May: Netanyahu failed to form a new government and lost his mandate

5th May Israel’s president asks Netanyahu opponent to form government

7th May: Scores of Palestinians hurt as Israel police storm Al Aqsa

So by deliberately provoking this strife, Netanyahu will likely hang on to power for at least as many more years as he can keep this carnage going for. Doesn't matter if some Israelis die in order to keep him in power a bit longer - look at the big picture; the ends justfy the means.

Palestinian deaths don't matter and never did.

Mysterypunter

Housefree wrote: »

Plenty of Jewish people are against the Israeli/Zionist actions.

I said perpetrated by the Israeli government and the strong Jewish lobby in the USA

Hqrry113

randd1 wrote: »

Really? Nothing to do with religion?

Best to follow your own advice there chum and say nothing.

I suppose you also believe the Northern Ireland conflict was all about religion, the conflict is territorial not a religious war.

randd1

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Jesus, how can someone be so brazen about the slaughter of people like this?

Israel does nothing but fan the flames to then give them a reason to use their Air Force to drop bombs on buildings where they THINK there might be a terrorist...just ignore the innocent people all around, they don't matter.

They have a rap sheet of this the length of the M50. Why do we see representatives go on news channels and just so animated when they are called out on it? That is the act of a right wing state, and a leader who is on thin ice as it is.

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs, but it is only made worse by one side, and they do this so they can use brutal force against a desperate people.

People can become fatigued by the constant killing, especially when we’re somewhat detached from it being so far away.