Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Silence from the pro-Israel crowd as per usual or they'll try to blame the Palestinians.

Not at all.

I don't spend 24-hours glued to my PC commenting in fora.

Once I discover what has happened, I will report the facts objectively and offer my opinion thereafter.

wes

namloc1980 wrote: »

Silence from the pro-Israel crowd as per usual or they'll try to blame the Palestinians.

Honestly at this point, its clear that some people just expect the Palestinians, to just roll over and die. Israel can't even hold to a ceasefire for a single damn day.

Timberrrrrrrr

Ceasefire holding so Israel starts poking the Palestinians again

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has threatened "a new level of force" if Hamas breaks the ceasefire agreed on Friday, as it appeared to have so far held.

Speaking after the truce came into effect at 2am (12am UK time) on Friday, Mr Netanyahu warned: "If Hamas thinks we will tolerate a drizzle of rockets, it is wrong."

He vowed to respond with "a new level of force against any expression of aggression against communities around Gaza and any other part of Israel".

Mimon

Deleted User wrote: »

This idea that Jews were allowed to live in harmony alongside their welcoming Palestinian brethren is a nonsense made up by people who want to pretend that everything was perfect prior to 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1660_destruction_of_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Druze_attack_on_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2016/01/persecution-of-jews-in-muslim-countries.html

Jews may have lived there, but they lived there as an oppressed population. Their homes, lands and synagogues were taken away from them, they were put into ghettoes, jailed if they were suspected of having property. Sound familiar?

We're not children, and it's just not as simple as "good guys" and "bad guys". And attempts to make it that simple from the comfort of an armchair where the only siren you're likely to hear is the neighbour's RAV4 popping off, is not helping anyone. Least of all the people you ostensibly want to help.

Most of these cases have nothing to so with Palestinians ! If you took any spot on the planet you could point to incidents in the past and say the same.

When you look at Palestine before the Zionists arrived there was a hell of a lot more harmony than there is at the present time.

That's due to Zionists arriving and creating conflict by grabbing land, marginalising and murdering the people who previously inhabited the area.

Mimon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ceasefire holding so Israel starts poking the Palestinians again

I'm an atheist but really wish there was a hell for that war mongering cretin to suffer when the world is rid of him.

Fuascailteoir

namloc1980 wrote: »

Silence from the pro-Israel crowd as per usual or they'll try to blame the Palestinians.

Is a tough gig being an online troll for Israel. Spend days defending the indefensible and then when a ceasefire is announced, Israel go back and start from the beginning where they kicked the whole thing off to start with

paulaa

Deleted User wrote: »

The video is sad, nobody wants to see families and kids hurt like this. But you make it seem as though Israel deliberately targeted entire families who were completely innocent for no reason. As another person pointed out, if Israel wanted to commit genocide it is doing a terrible job of it, with the relatively low number of casualties in such a densely populated area.

The only options militarily for Israel to stop rocket attacks are to target Hamas leadership like this, or do a ground invasion of gaza. The latter would be far more bloody and painful and traumatic for everyone.

Gaza Lives Erased: Israel Is Wiping Out Entire Palestinian Families on Purpose
The numerous incidents of killing entire families in Israeli bombings in Gaza – Parents and children, babies, grandparents, siblings – attest that these were not mistakes. The bombings follow a decision from higher up, backed by the approval of military jurists

Fifteen Palestinian nuclear and extended families lost at least three, and in general more, of their members, in the Israeli shelling of the Gaza Strip during the week from May 10 through to Monday afternoon. Parents and children, babies, grandparents, siblings and nephews and nieces died together when Israel bombed their homes, which collapsed over them. Insofar as is known, no advance warning was given so that they could evacuate the targeted houses.

On Saturday, a representative of the Palestinian Health Ministry brought listed the names of 12 families who were killed, each one at its home, each one in a single bombing. Since then, in one air raid before dawn on Sunday, which lasted 70 minutes and was directed at three houses on Al Wehda Street in the Rimal neighborhood of Gaza, three families numbering 38 people in total were killed. Some of the bodies were found on Sunday morning. Palestinian rescue forces only managed to find the rest of the bodies and pull them out from the rubble only on Sunday evening.

Wiping out entire families in Israeli bombings was one of the characteristics of the war in 2014. In the roughly 50 days of the war then, UN figures say that 142 Palestinian families were erased (742 people in total). The numerous incidents then and today attest that these were not mistakes: and that the bombing of a house while all its residents are in it follows a decision from higher up, backed by the examination and approval of military jurists.(Cont)

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/gaza-israel-wiping-entire-palestinian-families-hamas-1.9820005

namloc1980

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Is a tough gig being an online troll for Israel. Spend days defending the indefensible and then when a ceasefire is announced, Israel go back and start from the beginning where they kicked the whole thing off to start with

They are just waiting for the talking points that will somehow spin this as Israel being the victim yet again.

biko

namloc1980 wrote: »

Israeli forces have moved into the Al Aqsa Mosque grounds in Jerusalem firing rubber bullets. Somebody high up doesn't want this ceasefire to last and is trying to goad a response.

Do you have a source for this?

Israeli police did storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque but that was last week.


Nm, found it myself https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-aqsa-police-raid-ceasefire

paulaa

Deleted User wrote: »

This idea that Jews were allowed to live in harmony alongside their welcoming Palestinian brethren is a nonsense made up by people who want to pretend that everything was perfect prior to 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1660_destruction_of_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Druze_attack_on_Safed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

https://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2016/01/persecution-of-jews-in-muslim-countries.html

Jews may have lived there, but they lived there as an oppressed population. Their homes, lands and synagogues were taken away from them, they were put into ghettoes, jailed if they were suspected of having property. Sound familiar?

We're not children, and it's just not as simple as "good guys" and "bad guys". And attempts to make it that simple from the comfort of an armchair where the only siren you're likely to hear is the neighbour's RAV4 popping off, is not helping anyone. Least of all the people you ostensibly want to help.

Who was oppressing Jews ?

paulaa

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ceasefire holding so Israel starts poking the Palestinians again

It wouldn't be the first time Israel broke a ceasefire.

xhomelezz

biko wrote: »

Do you have a source for this?

Israeli police did storm the Al-Aqsa Mosque but that was last week.


Nm, found it myself https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-aqsa-police-raid-ceasefire

Just quote from the article:

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said officers had been targeted by Palestinians who threw stones, and began "riot" suppressing measures.

At least 10 Palestinians have been wounded. Reuters reported stones and molotov cocktails being thrown towards police.

Now the question is who started it, before everyone jumps into conclusion Israel broke ceasefire..

paulaa

xhomelezz wrote: »

Just quote from the article:

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said officers had been targeted by Palestinians who threw stones, and began "riot" suppressing measures.

At least 10 Palestinians have been wounded. Reuters reported stones and molotov cocktails being thrown towards police.

Now the question is who started it, before everyone jumps into conclusion Israel broke ceasefire..

I doubt very much that is true. The people would be at their Friday prayers and as usually happens the police/IOF would try to get them to leave the Mosque before they were ready.

Tyrone212

Article from Mike Murphy . Quite mental what he witnessed.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/palestine-israel-ireland-5442467-May2021/

biko

Police dispersing crowds on the Temple Mount does not equal breaking ceasefire. There is no military action.

wes

An interview with Emily Wilder, recent Stanford grad fired from AP job over criticisms of Israel


Some interesting facts, reporter is Jewish, and wasn't even reporting on Israel/Palestine (reporting on stuff in Arizon). We see far worse conflicts of interest for people who actual report on Israel/Palestine, who do not get fired.

So AP gave into a right wing mob, and now they will be beholden to them, now that they know they can get AP to do what they want.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Police dispersing crowds on the Temple Mount does not equal breaking ceasefire. There is no military action.

They’ve gone straight back to what provoked the first attack in this skirmish. They know what they are at.

wes

Overheal wrote: »

They’ve gone straight back to what provoked the first attack in this skirmish. They know what they are at.

Its amazing that when the IDF does something its apparently ok.

Also, I fail to see how tear gas and "rubber" bullets fired indiscriminately into a crowd are somehow ok, but Hamas rockets fired indiscriminately are a war crime. I fail to the difference between to the 2. Both are imo wrong.

Igotadose

wes wrote: »

Its amazing that when the IDF does something its apparently ok.

Also, I fail to see how tear gas and "rubber" bullets fired indiscriminately into a crowd are somehow ok, but Hamas rockets fired indiscriminately are a war crime. I fail to the difference between to the 2. Both are imo wrong.

Go pile up some explosives and stand next to them as they ignite.

Then, if you can, go stand next to a canister of tear gas.

Is the experience different?

Timberrrrrrrr

Igotadose wrote: »

Go pile up some explosives and stand next to them as they ignite.

Then, if you can, go stand next to a canister of tear gas.

Is the experience different?

Go stand in front of someone and let them shoot you with a rubber bullet and them tell us how the expert wasn't that bad.

Overheal

Igotadose wrote: »

Go pile up some explosives and stand next to them as they ignite.

Then, if you can, go stand next to a canister of tear gas.

Is the experience different?

Sorry what explosives were at al-Aqsa? Why are you trying to make this equivalence?

wes

Igotadose wrote: »

Go pile up some explosives and stand next to them as they ignite.

Then, if you can, go stand next to a canister of tear gas.

Is the experience different?

Firing either at people indiscriminately is wrong.

Also, plastic bullets can kill people:
The Deadly Truth About Rubber Bullets

Igotadose

Overheal wrote: »

Sorry what explosives were at al-Aqsa? Why are you trying to make this equivalence?

My point was to not make them equivalent, unlike Wes's who said they were.

From one, you're likely to die.

From the other, at least the intention is to not kill you. As we know, if the IDF wants to kill you, they are very good at it.

Do we agree that having rockets fired at you, is worse than having rubber bullets fired at you?

Overheal

Igotadose wrote: »

My point was to not make them equivalent, unlike Wes's who said they were.

From one, you're likely to die.

From the other, at least the intention is to not kill you. As we know, if the IDF wants to kill you, they are very good at it.

Do we agree that having rockets fired at you, is worse than having rubber bullets fired at you?

Again I am flummoxed by your equivalence: are the Israeli police teargassing the al-Aqsa mosque because of rocket fire? From the mosque, or from yesterday?

If one has no direct, causal connection to the other I fail to see what you are going on about. They used gas to storm muslims, not to storm rockets.

Israeli police forces dispersing any civilian crowd, in any part of the country, is not - and cannot be taken as - a breach of a military ceasefire.

If, however, Hamas responds to the above with military aggression, that would constitute a breach of ceasefire.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Israeli police forces dispersing any civilian crowd, in any part of the country, is not - and cannot be taken as - a breach of a military ceasefire.

If, however, Hamas responds to the above with military aggression, that would constitute a breach of ceasefire.

Oh we know it’s not a breach of the military ceasefire, however, it’s Israel going back to the same circumstances that escalated tensions into a full scale exchange of bombs. It’s reprehensible to say the very least.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Again I am flummoxed by your equivalence: are the Israeli police teargassing the al-Aqsa mosque because of rocket fire? From the mosque, or from yesterday?

If one has no direct, causal connection to the other I fail to see what you are going on about. They used gas to storm muslims, not to storm rockets.

The original "equivalence" was made by wes, in a post to which Igotadose was responding.

I can't figure out if you're this repeatedly dishonest intentionally, but it really makes discussions you're involved in unpleasant to wade through.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Oh we know it’s not a breach of the military ceasefire, however, it’s Israel going back to the same circumstances* that escalated tensions into a full scale exchange of bombs. It’s reprehensible to say the very least.

...going back to the same circumstances in which Hamas issued a threat of military action - and backed that up with hundreds of rockets, prompting an Israeli military response.*

This is entirely in the hands of Hamas.

They can consciously choose to allow Israel to act as it chooses with civilian crowds, or they can exploit this as an excuse to break the ceasefire.

Will Hamas risk hundreds more Gazan casualties on the basis of Israel breaking up a crowd?

Let's hope not.

But as a terror organization, it is not impossible to concieve.

wes

Overheal wrote: »

Oh we know it’s not a breach of the military ceasefire, however, it’s Israel going back to the same circumstances that escalated tensions into a full scale exchange of bombs. It’s reprehensible to say the very least.

Both sides seem to have a different ceasefire. Hamas said it included attacks on Al Aqsa and Israel said it didn't, they both said this yesterday.

Either way imo, Israel is once again engaged in aggression that started the most recent conflict.

cnocbui

eskimohunt wrote: »

Israeli police forces dispersing any civilian crowd, in any part of the country, is not - and cannot be taken as - a breach of a military ceasefire.

If, however, Hamas responds to the above with military aggression, that would constitute a breach of ceasefire.

Oh look at the rubber bullets and IDF dispersing this civillian...



...hang on a minute, where are they?