Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

paulaa

Overheal wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense to me. One of the most frequent reasons to register for a forum is to talk about things you don't know enough about, and are asking people for their view/experience.

Of course. The poster i was replying to said

"I keep reading this thread, but feck me, there's no discussion here at all. Cards been dealt since day one. Israel is a bad guy, Palestinians are good guys. None of us are living on any side of this conflict, yet plenty of posters here knows it all."

It was a whinge against people whom they didn't agree with, but they didn't put forward any insight themselves.

tipptom

Igotadose wrote: »

Not Bush I, II, Reagan? JFK? Eisenhower? Nixon?
Consistent misspelling of Israel is usually a sign of an agenda.

I didnt think i would need to run through them all and it would be covered by the etc.

I would love to know why you think my misspelling of Isreal is the sign of an aganda?

Mimon

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

Rabbi Sacks produced a video a couple of years ago on the link between antisemitism and Israel. I'm not endorsing everything he says, but suggesting people hear another view on this topic.

Sad that Jewish people around the world have to pay a price for Israeli war crimes.

Stopped watching as in the first 30 seconds as it accuses anyone who is an anti Zionist of being anti Jewish. Load of steaming horse manure propaganda.

Igotadose

tipptom wrote: »

I didnt think i would need to run through them all and it would be covered by the etc.

I would love to know why you think my misspelling of Isreal is the sign of an aganda?

Well, if you want to pick the POTUS that by far enabled Israeli aggression, it's the #IMPOTUS. You only mentioned Democrats, which was interesting.

As for spelling, typically it's the overt anti-semites that spell it "Isreal." But, looks like an honest mistake this time.

Danzy

Mimon wrote: »

Sad that Jewish people around the world have to pay a price for Israeli war crimes.

The people attacking would find an excuse regardless.

Mimon

Igotadose wrote: »

Well, if you want to pick the POTUS that by far enabled Israeli aggression, it's the #IMPOTUS. You only mentioned Democrats, which was interesting.

As for spelling, typically it's the overt anti-semites that spell it "Isreal." But, looks like an honest mistake this time.

:rolleyes:

Mimon

Danzy wrote: »

The people attacking would find an excuse regardless.

You should try debating my 3 year old with that level of insight :rolleyes:

We were talking about increasing levels of anti jewish violence due to Israelis genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Danzy

Israel aren't going to change course because normalization there will lead to their destruction and extermination.

When they look at the growth in radical islamists in Europe, the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism and at least a regard for it in the modern Left.

They'd be fools.

cnocbui

Mimon wrote: »

Sad that Jewish people around the world have to pay a price for Israeli war crimes.

Stopped watching as in the first 30 seconds as it accuses anyone who is an anti Zionist of being anti Jewish. Load of steaming horse manure propaganda.

Perhaps they would like to take a holiday in Gaza for a couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure it would cure any concerns regarding their own lot.

Akrasia

The reason why no American president will stand up to the Zionist elements in Israel is because the ‘right to exist’ argument has become so ingrained in the narrative

Anyone in America who argues for a secular democracy in Israel will be accused of denying Israel’s ‘right to exist’ as a ‘Jewish homeland’

It doesn’t matter if a ‘Jewish’ state by definition denies equal rights to non Jewish residents, the ‘right to exist’ argument has become entangled with Zionism which is a supremacist ideology

The myth of the two state solution, a Zionist Israel and a Muslim theocracy living side by side, or even sharing roads and essential infrastructure with each other will never work, because they would be two states each founded on the principle that they cannot coexist with each other and need to be separated

Israel and Palestine should be in talks over how to share the land peacefully with each other, but that won’t happen for as long as one side is allowed to get away with routinely subjugating and humiliating the other, knowing that they can act with complete impunity because the USA will shield them from any consequences for their crimes

Danzy

Mimon wrote: »

You should try debating my 3 year old with that level of insight :rolleyes:

We were talking about increasing levels of anti jewish violence due to Israelis genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Always an excuse ready with you boot boy types.

cnocbui

Danzy wrote: »

Israel aren't going to change course because normalization there will lead to their destruction and extermination.

When they look at the growth in radical islamists in Europe, the strong undercurrent of anti-Semitism and at least a regard for it in the modern Left.

They'd be fools.

No it wouldn't, no more than Ireland gaining independence lead to the destruction of the UK. The creation of a self determining Palestinian state would lead to greater peace.

The anti-zionism is given just cause by the way the Palestinians have been treated since occupation. If loyalists in the north regularly stole houses and land from catholics, kicking them to the street and making them destitute, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been a peace agreement and the IRA would still be going strong.

Mimon

Akrasia wrote: »

The reason why no American president will stand up to the Zionist elements in Israel is because the ‘right to exist’ argument has become so ingrained in the narrative

Anyone in America who argues for a secular democracy in Israel will be accused of denying Israel’s ‘right to exist’ as a ‘Jewish homeland’

It doesn’t matter if a ‘Jewish’ state by definition denies equal rights to non Jewish residents, the ‘right to exist’ argument has become entangled with Zionism which is a supremacist ideology

The myth of the two state solution, a Zionist Israel and a Muslim theocracy living side by side, or even sharing roads and essential infrastructure with each other will never work, because they would be two states each founded on the principle that they cannot coexist with each other and need to be separated

Israel and Palestine should be in talks over how to share the land peacefully with each other, but that won’t happen for as long as one side is allowed to get away with routinely subjugating and humiliating the other, knowing that they can act with complete impunity because the USA will shield them from any consequences for their crimes

Definitely parallels with their own history and manifest destiny and all that. They justified genocide of the Native Americans using the same logic.

Crazy that similar is happening in the modern world and they are sponsoring it.

Europe's response is disgraceful and history will not be kind to this generation of leaders.

cnocbui

Danzy wrote: »

The people attacking would find an excuse regardless.

Speaking of attacking - Netanyahu found an excuse to stay in power, regardless of how many women and children had to die to secure it.

Danzy

cnocbui wrote: »

No it wouldn't, no more than Ireland gaining independence lead to the destruction of the UK. The creation of a self determining Palestinian state would lead to greater peace.

The anti-zionism is given just cause by the way the Palestinians have been treated since occupation. If loyalists in the north regularly stole houses and land from catholics, kicking them to the street and making them destitute, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been a peace agreement and the IRA would still be going strong.

I've no problem with a Palestinian State, it would be just but it will only work with complete separation and distance.

Geographically that's an insurmountable problem.

Israel aren't going to give up the West Bank because it reduces their most dense population centre to a narrow militarily vulnerable strip.

tipptom

Igotadose wrote: »

Well, if you want to pick the POTUS that by far enabled Israeli aggression, it's the #IMPOTUS. You only mentioned Democrats, which was interesting.

As for spelling, typically it's the overt anti-semites that spell it "Isreal." But, looks like an honest mistake this time.

Im no Republican and i would have expected more from the democrats tbh especially Obama and Clinton.

Did not know there was a thing about spelling the name but now that i see it, it is the "real" that i suppose could be misconstrued as to my intentions

Mimon

Danzy wrote: »

Always an excuse ready with you boot boy types.

Your arguments consist of one line statements that are obviously from a position of ignorance and when you are losing the argument you accuse me of being a violent neo nazi.

Really sad.

Danzy

cnocbui wrote: »

Speaking of attacking - Netanyahu found an excuse to stay in power, regardless of how many women and children had to die to secure it.

Both sides have horrendous leaders, both sides have cultural and religious imperatives on the need to hate the other.

It's way more intractable than the war in the 6.

Just or not Israel won't change because that means that they die. It's that simple, they won't go along with it. Their grandparents experience in the Arab world still resonates, much more than any Hamas leader or Imam calling for the extermination of Jews.

Say you were gay or a woman, nevermind ethnicity etc.

They'll fight to the bitter end to keep Palestine at bay.

The 2 State solution is dead, it's not going to happen, other alternatives have to be put in to play.

agoodpunt

Israel captured East Jerusalem from Jordan during the 1967 Six-Day War and subsequently annexed it into Jerusalem the people who want it returned want to anilated the state that won that war.
Its sad Hamas only want resistance for its people who are used as pones in a wider conflict cheered on, and armed by other larger states aka Iran who seek dominance in the wider middle east where Israel is an obstruction.
If Iran got its way it would threaten the west it sees as weak and continually rolls over.

cnocbui

Danzy wrote: »

I've no problem with a Palestinian State, it would be just but it will only work with complete separation and distance.

Geographically that's an insurmountable problem.

Israel aren't going to give up the West Bank because it reduces their most dense population centre to a narrow militarily vulnerable strip.

There isn't an insurmountable problem, other than the zionists still driving the apartheid and expansionist policies with no intention of ever relinquishing land or allowing the formation of a palestinian state.

The continued theft of Palestinian homes and land, which has been ceasless since 1946, shows clearly that all the made up objections to a palestinian state are just disingenuous diversions and have nothing to do with security.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

The myth of the two state solution, a Zionist Israel and a Muslim theocracy living side by side, or even sharing roads and essential infrastructure with each other will never work, because they would be two states each founded on the principle that they cannot coexist with each other and need to be separated.

Israel and Palestine should be in talks over how to share the land peacefully with each other...

What do you suggest?

There can be no peace until Israel stops further displacement (ethnic cleansing) of Palestinians.

Unless the Nakba is to be reversed, is it accepted Israel must now exist. Or does "river to the sea" suggest not.

Other than compensation for displaced Palestinians (however its done), and the two state solution what else is there?

Living side by side in a New Palestine?

tara2k

tara2k wrote: »

What support? They have no support in Europe as is.

Total waffle.

Here is a map of the countries that recognise the state of Palestine.

Mimon

Really good documentary that shows what life is like in Gaza.

https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/gaza-fights-for-freedom/

cnocbui

Danzy wrote: »

Both sides have horrendous leaders, both sides have cultural and religious imperatives on the need to hate the other.

It's way more intractable than the war in the 6.

Just or not Israel won't change because that means that they die. It's that simple, they won't go along with it. Their grandparents experience in the Arab world still resonates, much more than any Hamas leader or Imam calling for the extermination of Jews.

Say you were gay or a woman, nevermind ethnicity etc.

They'll fight to the bitter end to keep Palestine at bay.

The 2 State solution is dead, it's not going to happen, other alternatives have to be put in to play.

The only thing 'simple' is stating that something is simple and inevitable. This all Israelis will die is utter drivel.

Israel is militarily highly competent. It is surrounded by vastly more religion driven states with huge populations, but none of them can or will wipe out Israel, but you are stating as inevitable fact, that a comparative handful of Palestinians being given self determination, despite starting with no resources or means, will overnight transform into a zealous, prosperous military superpower that will crush Israel, where a wealthy, vastly populous state like Egypt couldn’t? Absolute fairy story. It's a reds under the beds frighten the children assertion.

Remember Vietnam? If we don't stop the commies we are done for. We have to stop them at all costs or all of Asia will turn red. That garbage was sold as obvious inevitability and you and the zionists are still peddling the same nonsense. Reds under the beds, the inevitability of Communist world domination, Israel will be wiped out - all the same manipulative nonsense trying to sow fear to gain support for abhorrent policies and behaviours.

Israel wants Hamas, they nurtured them, because then they can use the fear of Iran - the current trendy substitute for imminent Communist world domination - to argue that all they do is justified because Iran, Islam.

There used to be a comparatively secular PLO under Yasser Arafat. They were literally freedom fighters - their cause was obviously just, so they had to go.

Movementarian

The whole situation is a losing game and has been from the start. One side believes the land is their inheritance gifted to them by God. There is no winning an argument or discussion with people when that is their starting position.

Also amazes me the amount of keyboard warriors who defend Israel's 'right to defend' itself. Its iron dome that intercepts 90 plus percent of missiles is its self defence. Blowing up woman and children to try kill a militant is not. Rules of war, the US and UK were held to these standards in Iraq etc and got serious grief when they accidentaly hit civilians. Israel do it deliberately and knowingly and its 'self defence'.

How many of these people defending Israel would tolerate being forcibly relocated from your own home because someone claimed rights to it? Think people living in the US would just accept being moved if American Indians tried to invoke their clear historic rights to land? But Palrestinians are backed into a corner with literally nobody supporting them politically and left with no choice.

Every other situation in the world that has similar position gets called for what it is, apartheid. But free pass for Israel because people either intenionally or mistakenly conflate it with anti-semitism. And that you cannot do. You can treat people as second class based on their race and religion but you cannot be seen to be anti-semitic. And sure they are Gods chosen people and what can you do about that.

Odhinn

Living under the occupation

JERUSALEM — Muhammad Sandouka built his home in the shadow of the Temple Mount before his second son, now 15, was born.
They demolished it together, after Israeli authorities decided that razing it would improve views of the Old City for tourists.
Mr. Sandouka, 42, a countertop installer, had been at work when an inspector confronted his wife with two options: Tear the house down, or the government would not only level it but also bill the Sandoukas $10,000 for its expenses.
Such is life for Palestinians living under Israel’s occupation: always dreading the knock at the front door.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/22/us/israel-gaza-conflict.html?fbclid=IwAR1rOUhBj6zOwuMLqAAfNXTraeIASwywXP3qvBlDSRimc_FT4YGqq43j5Xc

xhomelezz

paulaa wrote: »

Of course. The poster i was replying to said

"I keep reading this thread, but feck me, there's no discussion here at all. Cards been dealt since day one. Israel is a bad guy, Palestinians are good guys. None of us are living on any side of this conflict, yet plenty of posters here knows it all."

It was a whinge against people whom they didn't agree with, but they didn't put forward any insight themselves.

No point to post any of my insights, because if anyone try to back up Israelis or Israel, all what they get is, come on Israel deliberately kill children. Or being called to educate, that goes to your post, a bit arrogant approach I'd say. That's why I said, there's no discussion. Israel bad, Palestina good and that's it. That's how I feel about this thread. Without claiming 40 years of observation of situation there.

wes

A rather nasty and racist ad in the New York time a couple of days ago:
https://twitter.com/matthewduchesne/status/1396109317867294725?s=20

One of the targets of this libel replied:
https://twitter.com/DUALIPA/status/1396224254761488388?s=20

This is the kind of racist (accusing people who are Muslim or who are seen to be Muslim in the case of Dua Lipa, is an anti-Muslim trope) and libelous crap appearing the New York times, even as an ad. Shows the clear anti-Palestinians bias in the Western media. I doubt you would see such an ad allowed targeting any other group.

Also, the small pro-Israel protest (1500 in attendance) in the UK today, featured a racist Nakba denier Israeli Ambassador Tzipi Hotovely. The Nakba is well established fact, and you can read about it in detail in the book "The Ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by IIan Pappe, or a more concise read can be found here:

A Jewish case for Palestinian refugee return


Also, the infamous Tommy Robinson was in attendance, but his presence was thankfully condemned by organizers.

You can read about the protest here:
1500 demonstrate in solidarity with Israel


Also violence in Sheikh Jarrah continues, despite Israel agreeing to a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1396159298179379202?s=20

Also, admission of war crimes from IDF members coming out now:
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1396108367576408067?s=20

paulaa

wes wrote: »

A rather nasty and racist ad in the New York time a couple of days ago:
https://twitter.com/matthewduchesne/status/1396109317867294725?s=20

One of the targets of this libel replied:
https://twitter.com/DUALIPA/status/1396224254761488388?s=20

This is the kind of racist (accusing people who are Muslim or who are seen to be Muslim in the case of Dua Lipa, is an anti-Muslim trope) and libelous crap appearing the New York times, even as an ad. Shows the clear anti-Palestinians bias in the Western media. I doubt you would see such an ad allowed targeting any other group.

Also, the small pro-Israel protest (1500 in attendance) in the UK today, featured a racist Nakba denier Israeli Ambassador Tzipi Hotovely. The Nakba is well established fact, and you can read about it in detail in the book "The Ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by IIan Pappe, or a more concise read can be found here:

A Jewish case for Palestinian refugee return


Also, the infamous Tommy Robinson was in attendance, but his presence was thankfully condemned by organizers.

You can read about the protest here:
1500 demonstrate in solidarity with Israel


Also violence in Sheikh Jarrah continues, despite Israel agreeing to a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1396159298179379202?s=20

Also, admission of war crimes from IDF members coming out now:
https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1396108367576408067?s=20

The lies and spin that come from Israel and her followers are mindboggling at times.
Great post.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Total waffle.

Here is a map of the countries that recognise the state of Palestine.

That's less than I previously thought. My original misconception was the EU had. No NATO countries?

I think that should be a ballot initiative in Ireland IMHO