Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

tayto lover

PeggyShippen wrote: »

Hamas are a charity like the IRA are civil rights campaigners. I dont think all this helps. Hamas are a serious roadblock to peace. They kill dissenters and LGBT and anyone that doesn't agree with them.

As I said, Hamas started out as a charitable organisation.
Why do you think they changed? Why do you think Rabin had numerous meetings with Hamas as opposed to the PLO?

wes

https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1397014287193882626?s=20

Protesters being rounded by Israeli authorities. Peaceful protest is treated no different than violence. BDS is treated no different than violence. Any resistance peaceful or violent is considered to be terrorism and Anti-Semitism.

More violence in Sheikh Jarrah from the IDF:
https://twitter.com/theIMEU/status/1397181418934046722?s=20

Another appalling act of ethnic cleansing.

Also the IDF claimed most of the people they murdered in Gaza to be terrorists, that number includes the children:
https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/1396531111757598722?s=20

IMO, another example of what Israel is doing is genocide. Listing children as terrorists. Utterly despicable and a war crime.

Odhinn

For context

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Tony EH

PeggyShippen wrote: »

No serious scholar thinks there was higher than 2 million natives in North America prior to settlers arriving.

This is bollocks.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

This is bollocks.

Careful now, boards can be reported to the broadcasting standards authority for this type of post according to Peggy, you don't want to end up involved in a complaint with them.

Tony EH

DubInMeath wrote: »

Careful now, boards can be reported to the broadcasting standards authority for this type of post according to Peggy, you don't want to end up involved in a complaint with them.

Yeah, well Mrs Arnold is talking absolute tripe. "No serious scholar thinks..." :pac:

There's a large range of figures given for the numbers of Native Americans who were on the continent before the white man arrived put forth by various "serious scholars" who were whittled down to a few hundred thousand by the 1800's through genocidal means.

"Peggy's" musings on the subject is a fine demonstration of how facts get distorted by simple minded ideology.

Just another poster who isn't worth reading.

wes

wes wrote: »

Another appalling act of ethnic cleansing.

Also the IDF claimed most of the people they murdered in Gaza to be terrorists, that number includes the children:
https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/1396531111757598722?s=20

IMO, another example of what Israel is doing is genocide. Listing children as terrorists. Utterly despicable and a war crime.

Using children as combatants is even more despicable.
And a war crime.

Neither side are beyond reproach.

Fuascailteoir

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeah, well Mrs Arnold is talking absolute tripe. "No serious scholar thinks..." :pac:

There's a large range of figures given for the numbers of Native Americans who were on the continent before the white man arrived put forth by various "serious scholars" who were whittled down to a few hundred thousand by the 1800's through genocidal means.

"Peggy's" musings on the subject is a fine demonstration of how facts get distorted by simple minded ideology.

Just another poster who isn't worth reading.

Those fine detail in those musings are what happens from extended exposure to sites like stormfront

nacho libre

nacho libre wrote: »

It seems you are well able to call out bias you perceive in others, but are not able to see your own bias.

Not at all.

I am 100% biased in favour of Israel and against Hamas/PLO and Islamic terrorism.

There's no secret about that, and I'm quite proud of that fact too.

Mimon

eskimohunt wrote: »

Not at all.

I am 100% biased in favour of Israel and against Hamas/PLO and Islamic terrorism.

There's no secret about that, and I'm quite proud of that fact too.

Usually give people credit for self awareness but the fact you are aware of this and support children getting murdered makes it far worse.

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

Usually give people credit for self awareness but the fact you are aware of this and support children getting murdered makes it far worse.

Produce a direct quote where I stated this, or retract the allegation.

Mimon

Thanks for the videos Wes. The one with the 16 year old girl getting hit at short range with a rubber coated metal bullet as she goes into her house is horrific. They then throw tear gas in the house!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_ANlGNjM1E

She has multiple fractured spinal vertebrae.

How anyone thinks that a country that inflicts these type of war crimes on another people is a progressive democracy is delusional.

Mimon

eskimohunt wrote: »

Produce a direct quote where I stated this, or retract the allegation.

You have tried to justify the deaths of children at the hand of the IDF by dressing it up as fighting terrorism. It is an abhorrent stance.

You should have good look at your biases and not be proud of them as they are making you come up with some pretty fked up viewpoints.

paulaa

eskimohunt wrote: »

Anyone who has visited Israel would never come to such an absurd conclusion.

Tourists and other visitors to Israel and Palestine are given the sanitised tour. They don't see the conditions that non Israeli families are living in on the West Bank. They are steered away from the settlers setting fire to centuries old olive trees belonging to these people, protected by the IOF, of throwing whole families out of their homes and taking them for themselves.

They don't tell the visitors to Bethlehem and Jerusalem that they are in the process of taking land and property belonging to Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches. Instead they let the tourists think that Israel is a protector of Christians .

They don't see the destruction of Palestinian schools , built with money and materials sent from well meaning people in the west. Hundreds of solar panels have been destroyed and even stolen ,that were sent by the people of several churches in Dublin and Wicklow to give the indigenous families means to cook , wash and have light when Israel or her illegal settlers decides to cut off supply. Many Palestinian Christians have lost their businesses and homes

That is only the tip of the iceberg and it's time Israeli fans stopped lying about the true situation In Israel /Palestine. They're dishonesty is exposed everyday with the plethora of news and documentary makers around the world.

Snickers Man

This popped up in my Twitter feed.
It's an ad that was rejected by the New York Times until its content was toned down a little.

The author is Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, a vehement supporter of Israel, who wanted to "call out" some young female celebrities for their "terrorist sympathies".

If you can't see the link he describes supermodels Bella and Gigi Hadid and pop singer Dua Lipa (I guess I should know who they are but hey, not on my radar) as "The IT Girls of Terror Splaining" and accuses them of "Anti-Semitic bile" and of villifying the "Jewish State with an all-consuming hatred".

Their crime? "They accuse Israel..of ethnic cleansing"

Really?
He's effectively saying then that Israel (or the people who became Israelis after the state was founded in 1948) did not engage in the mass eviction of Arab residents from their homes, towns, villages and cities.

The eviction of Arabs from Jaffa, a city in existence since Biblical times and which has now been subsumed into Tel Aviv which is 90% Jewish, never happened.

The massacre of Deir Yassin and the emptying of other Arab villages nearby, never happened.

The expulsion of the Arabs of Lydda (now Lod) never happened.

The displacement of 90% of the Arab population of Haifa by 1948 never happened.

Or it was something other than ethnic cleansing. Maybe it was a considered decision by tens of thousands of people to "move up the property ladder" from where they lived with their families to seek new horizons elsewhere.

Fair play to the New York Times for not publishing this ad but they did let him publish a slightly toned down version.

Why is Nakba denial not a social, political and indeed legal taboo like Holocaust denial? Why are Israelis, and their supporters around the world, allowed to get away with preaching these lies?

wes

IMO, even the toned down version of the ad was libelous and racist trash. New York Times should be ashamed of itself for publishing even the toned down version.

Odhinn

The perspective of disaffected IDF veterans

"I remember the first time I broke into the home of an innocent Palestinian family in the middle of the night. It was in the winter of 2006, in the Jenin refugee camp, in the West Bank. I was serving in the reconnaissance unit of the Nahal infantry brigade of the Israeli army. I was a combat soldier on a sniper’s team.
We had received orders to set up a sniper ambush from a private Palestinian home.
I did not hesitate. I was 20 years old and had grown up knowing that when my turn came to serve, just like my grandfather, my father, and my brothers before me, I would do everything in my power to protect the state of Israel. That night is still vivid in my memory. We pushed open the door and yelled at the innocent people inside, threatening them with our weapons.
What I remember above all is the jarring sense of power that I felt.
Something just didn’t seem right as I looked at the frightened eyes of the little boy we had woken up in the middle of the night. Then there were the angry glares from his parents.
It was only after undertaking many more of these incursions into Palestinian homes that I realized that our role as soldiers was to maintain military control over Palestinians, not to safeguard the security of people in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem."

https://www.oneyoungworld.com/blog/life-exposed-nadav-weiman


Additional testimonies here
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

Overheal

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Using children as combatants is even more despicable.
And a war crime.

Neither side are beyond reproach.

Except Israel *is* beyond reproach.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Produce a direct quote where I stated this, or retract the allegation.

All throughout the thread you’ve argued as much between the lines. When called on it you whistle past the graveyard.

wes

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Using children as combatants is even more despicable.
And a war crime.

Neither side are beyond reproach.

Yes, it is a war crime, except Hamas didn't use children as combatants, so a completely irrelevant point.

All, I see here is apologetics for genocide and nothing more.

Why are you unable to condemn Israel calling children terrorists? Care to explain?

If you claim Hamas was using them as combatants during the recent assault on Gaza, then I expect a lot of proof that isn't from the IDF, due to them lying all the time.

Mimon

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Using children as combatants is even more despicable.
And a war crime.

Neither side are beyond reproach.

Yeh like how the people in Ballymurphy were supposed to be combatants and how that was found out to be total BS and in fact they were all murdered. Don't swallow the propaganda, think for yourself.

There is only one side who here who are the aggressor who doesn't want peace and are who are illegally grabbing land according to your own elected representaves. https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0525/1223908-dail-middle-east/

biko

biko wrote: »

In 2014 Halawa tweeted #HitlerWasRight, and then got job with BBC.

It seems to be a popular tag with anti-Semites. 17000 tweets in a single week according to ADL.

The Anti-Defamation League said it has documented "disturbing antisemitism" on multiple social media platforms, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

The group said its analysis of Twitter posts from May 7 to May 14 found more than 17,000 tweets used variations of the phrase, "Hitler was right."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/22/israel-hamas-conflict-jewish-groups-sound-alarm-antisemitism-us/5220334001/

Tony EH

Odhinn wrote: »

The perspective of disaffected IDF veterans

https://www.oneyoungworld.com/blog/life-exposed-nadav-weiman


Additional testimonies here
https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

I know a couple of Israelis who did their service. They said it was the most sickening time of their lives.

They moved to Ireland.

You should hear what they have to say about the place. They want to love their country, and they do in many ways. But they just cannot gloss over things any more.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Except Israel *is* beyond reproach.

*No they're not.*

wes

wes wrote: »

Yes, it is a war crime, except Hamas didn't use children as combatants, so a completely irrelevant point.

All, I see here is apologetics for genocide and nothing more.

Why are you unable to condemn Israel calling children terrorists? Care to explain?

If you claim Hamas was using them as combatants during the recent assault on Gaza, then I expect a lot of proof that isn't from the IDF, due to them lying all the time.

In not unable to condemn it...
Nothing to explain.

(I condemn it).

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

Yeh like how the people in Ballymurphy were supposed to be combatants and how that was found out to be total BS and in fact they were all murdered. Don't swallow the propaganda, think for yourself.

There is only one side who here who are the aggressor who doesn't want peace and are who are illegally grabbing land according to your own elected representaves. https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0525/1223908-dail-middle-east/

Notwithstanding the whataboutry, you're right, don't believe the propaganda, and keep and open mind.

Mimon

biko wrote: »

It seems to be a popular tag with anti-Semites. 17000 tweets in a single week according to ADL.


https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/22/israel-hamas-conflict-jewish-groups-sound-alarm-antisemitism-us/5220334001/

Israel by commiting atrocities unfortunately opens up Jewish people to extremists. This does not negate Israeli war crimes one bit and you are attempting to distract from this.

In terms of this thread this is discussing the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

Bringing in anti semitism to the discussion is an obvious ploy to undermine genuine criticism of Israeli atrocities.

Please don't as everyone still posting regularly here who do not agree with what Israel are doing are certainly not anti semitic and it is offensive to label anyone here as such.

Mimon

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Notwithstanding the whataboutry, you're right, don't believe the propaganda, and keep and open mind.

It's not whataboutery it's a direct comparison of what two colonial powers have ruthlessly done to justify their murdering of civilians.

History is not kind to the British for this murder spree and won't be to the Israelis for their latest one. You need to have a good long think about the kind of people you are backing here.

PeggyShippen

Mimon wrote: »

It's not whataboutery it's a direct comparison of what two colonial powers have ruthlessly done to justify their murdering of civilians.

History is not kind to the British for this murder spree and won't be to the Israelis for their latest one. You need to have a good long think about the kind of people you are backing

More of the 'your suffering is like the Catholics in Northern Ireland' claptrap. Its pathetic stuff. All in all the British army and the IDF did and do a good job in trying conditions. The IRA and Hamas are similar in that they don't really care who they kill and hide behind their own people,using them. What's the real doozy is that Ireland was a coloniser as part of the UK and did a decent job administering and soldiering I might add. Many Hundreds were in the Palestine police after the RIC was demobbed.

Odhinn

PeggyShippen wrote: »

More of the 'your suffering is like the Catholics in Northern Ireland' claptrap. Its pathetic stuff. All in all the British army and the IDF did and do a good job in trying conditions. The IRA and Hamas are similar in that they don't really care who they kill and hide behind their own people,using them. What's the real doozy is that Ireland was a coloniser as part of the UK and did a decent job administering and soldiering I might add. Many Hundreds were in the Palestine police after the RIC was demobbed.

What are your views on the settlements/colonies in the occupied territories?