Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

For all the talk of "genocide", "ethnic cleansing", "open concentration camps" etc.

I've just seen two videos that massages my own opinions...

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/31/gazans-head-to-the-beach-as-ceasefire-holds

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9631041/Thousands-armed-Palestinian-Hamas-soldiers-parade-Gaza-anti-Israel-rally.html

From the first link

Families flocked to Gaza's beaches on Sunday after spending almost two weeks largely confined to their homes

"We are psychologically tired, but for the sake of the children we came to entertain them a little," 

The sandy coast is one of the only outlets for recreation in Gaza, a narrow strip of territory where more than 2 million Palestinians have lived under an Israeli and Egyptian blockade since Hamas seized power from rival Palestinian forces in 2007.

But Gazans have few other ways of escaping the heat, especially in the summer months when temperatures regularly exceed 100 degrees Fahrenheit (40 degrees Celsius).

Yeah, how dare they try to have some sort of normality for thier children :rolleyes:

wes

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

From the first link



Yeah, how dare they try to have some sort of normality for thier children :rolleyes:

Palestinians enjoying themselves after Israel wiped out multiple families on purpose, reduced huge chunks of Gaza to rubbler, and that somehow negates Israel crimes is a brand new one from the apologists brigade, and especially tone deaf, but then that is that is the raison d'etre of these people.

wes

wes wrote: »

Palestinians enjoying themselves after Israel wiped out multiple families on purpose, reduced huge chunks of Gaza to rubbler, and that somehow negates Israel crimes is a brand new one from the apologists brigade, and especially tone deaf, but then that is that is the raison d'etre of these people.

But they are enjoying themselves is the point. We are led to believe that they are lined up in camps behind barbed wire before being summarily "exterminated" for their ethnicity judging by some of the hyperbole in this thread.

As for 2 weeks being confined to their homes, most of the world has been confined to their homes for well over a year now, in varying degrees of poverty but still the comparison to the likes of Auschwitz are an insult to everyone's intelligence. Nobody ever cares about the fact that Gaza is blockaded by Egypt either for some reason.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

From the first link



Yeah, how dare they try to have some sort of normality for thier children :rolleyes:

I think it's great that they have some sort of normality for their children. But some posters in this thread talk day and night about how Israel bombs children based on some video from years ago. Now if only the parents could stop supporting the rocket launchers of Hamas that might also be wonderful for kids to grow up in a peaceful society. Israel occupies no part of Gaza. It's possible to have peace there surely.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it's great that they have some sort of normality for their children. But some posters in this thread talk day and night about how Israel bombs children based on some video from years ago.

So you're saying civillians and children weren't killed?

Deleted User wrote: »

Now if only the parents could stop supporting the rocket launchers of Hamas that might also be wonderful for kids to grow up in a peaceful society. Israel occupies no part of Gaza. It's possible to have peace there surely.

Israel is in de facto control of Gazas access to resources.



You think that the Palestinians in Gaza should ignore the plight of their fellows in the occupied territories?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But they are enjoying themselves is the point. We are led to believe that they are lined up in camps behind barbed wire before being summarily "exterminated" for their ethnicity judging by some of the hyperbole in this thread.

As for 2 weeks being confined to their homes, most of the world has been confined to their homes for well over a year now, in varying degrees of poverty but still the comparison to the likes of Auschwitz are an insult to everyone's intelligence. Nobody ever cares about the fact that Gaza is blockaded by Egypt either for some reason.

While you were confined at home, On a scale of one to ten, what were the chances of you/your children being blown up while sleeping?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it's great that they have some sort of normality for their children. But some posters in this thread talk day and night about how Israel bombs children based on some video from years ago. Now if only the parents could stop supporting the rocket launchers of Hamas that might also be wonderful for kids to grow up in a peaceful society. Israel occupies no part of Gaza. It's possible to have peace there surely.

I'm sorry...what now?


They may not "occupy" but a complete air and sea blockade of Gaza and a partial blockade of goods and people through both land crossings must surely be the next worse thing right?

wes

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

They may not "occupy" but a complete air and sea blockade of Gaza and a partial blockade of goods and people through both land crossings must surely be the next worse thing right?

BTW, what Israel is doing to Gaza, would be considered an act of war, if it was done to lets say any other country. The fact of the matter is that Israel is still considered the occupier of Gaza, they just turned it into the world largest open air prison, where the crime is being born Palestinian.

Amazing, how apologists, just ignore all the facts of what Israel is doing. i guess that is the only way any reasonable person could support Israel, create a fantasy version in there heads.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

So you're saying civillians and children weren't killed?










Israel is in de facto control of Gazas access to resources.



You think that the Palestinians in Gaza should ignore the plight of their fellows in the occupied territories?

No I'm not saying civilians and children weren't killed. But out of the 250 killed how many were civilians and children and how many were Hamas militants?

I think the Palestinians in Gaza should prioritise their own territory. Firing rockets at Israel won't achieve anything with respect to the West Bank. On the contrary, it will only incite retaliatory strikes from Israel which will do nothing but exacerbate the poor living standards in Gaza by damaging the infrastructure as well as cost lives.

They need to ask themselves what do they value - Territory in a different area (West Bank) versus their own health and wellbeing in Gaza. If I was a parent in Gaza I'd be 100% against the rocket attacks as it will achieve nothing positive and plenty negative.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm sorry...what now?


They may not "occupy" but a complete air and sea blockade of Gaza and a partial blockade of goods and people through both land crossings must surely be the next worse thing right?

Why does Egypt implement the same policies as Israel with regard to borders?

wes

wes wrote: »

BTW, what Israel is doing to Gaza, would be considered an act of war, if it was done to lets say any other country. The fact of the matter is that Israel is still considered the occupier of Gaza, they just turned it into the world largest open air prison, where the crime is being born Palestinian.

Amazing, how apologists, just ignore all the facts of what Israel is doing. i guess that is the only way any reasonable person could support Israel, create a fantasy version in there heads.

This is what I don't like. "the world largest open air prison" is nonsense. What prison allows families to have recreation time at the beach? Or allows militants to drive around fully armed in a "victory parade"?

Is Gaza a bit of a kip? Yes. Open air prison? No.

wes

wes wrote: »

BTW, what Israel is doing to Gaza, would be considered an act of war, if it was done to lets say any other country. The fact of the matter is that Israel is still considered the occupier of Gaza, they just turned it into the world largest open air prison, where the crime is being born Palestinian.

On the flip side, if any country fired rockets at another country like Hamas did, that too would be considered an act of war.

So when Israel pulled out of Gaza and very forcibly evicted Israeli settlers in 2005, was that nothing? They are still considered the occupier even if they did the exact opposite of occupation?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But they are enjoying themselves is the point. We are led to believe that they are lined up in camps behind barbed wire before being summarily "exterminated" for their ethnicity judging by some of the hyperbole in this thread.

As for 2 weeks being confined to their homes, most of the world has been confined to their homes for well over a year now, in varying degrees of poverty but still the comparison to the likes of Auschwitz are an insult to everyone's intelligence. Nobody ever cares about the fact that Gaza is blockaded by Egypt either for some reason.

Oh.

So this isn’t a prison?

https://www.google.com/search?q=prison+yard+play&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=visn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOuZa8ivnwAhUICc0KHYI2BdoQ_AUoAnoECAEQAg&biw=375&bih=553#imgrc=cNfwjJJp_ZfupM

Look at these bastards having fun. Obviously that can’t be a prison right based on your logic?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is what I don't like. "the world largest open air prison" is nonsense. What prison allows families to have recreation time at the beach? Or allows militants to drive around fully armed in a "victory parade"?

Is Gaza a bit of a kip? Yes. Open air prison? No.

You can indeed get visited by the family in a prison. Or just have a conjugal visit. That doesn’t mean they aren’t prisons.

Gaza is blockaded by Israel reliant on Israel for food electricity and water. They cannot trade. They have no freedom of movement outside Gaza. It is an open air prison.

Ardillaun

Although I’m no fan of the current Israeli government and its 1.1 state solution, can anyone say Hamas is really serving the basic interests of the people of Gaza? Your ordinary person wants safety and prosperity but these goals are apparently much less important than pursuing a hopeless, forever war against a nuclear power.

Shebean

Ardillaun wrote: »

Although I’m no fan of the current Israeli government and its 1.1 state solution, can anyone say Hamas is really serving the basic interests of the people of Gaza? Your ordinary person wants safety and prosperity but these goals are apparently much less important than pursuing a hopeless, forever war against a nuclear power.

Hamas are a symptom of unchecked Israeli aggression.
If there were no Hamas do you think Israel would stop? The blockade is to suffocate Gaza.
I find it odd that Mosad are unaware or unable to stop missiles being brought in or manufactured. It's almost as if they use it to further their own agenda.

Overheal

Ardillaun wrote: »

Although I’m no fan of the current Israeli government and its 1.1 state solution, can anyone say Hamas is really serving the basic interests of the people of Gaza? Your ordinary person wants safety and prosperity but these goals are apparently much less important than pursuing a hopeless, forever war against a nuclear power.

How could they hope to begin serving basic interests when Israel has a stranglehold on those interests: electricity, water, food, healthcare etc.

Maybe if Palestine was allowed to exist as a state we would see them able to support their own basic interests and not be enslaved to Israel.

Timberrrrrrrr

Ardillaun wrote: »

Although I’m no fan of the current Israeli government and its 1.1 state solution, can anyone say Hamas is really serving the basic interests of the people of Gaza? Your ordinary person wants safety and prosperity but these goals are apparently much less important than pursuing a hopeless, forever war against a nuclear power.

Are Israel? They blockade the sea so fishermen cannot earn a.living, they decide what enters Gaza, they recently blocked vaccines from.entering Gaza!

Should the Palestinians just sit back as Israeli settlements expand? Should they just go quietly into the night because a family from New York has decided they want the house they have lived in for fifty years? Would you be a meek kitten and allow this or would you vote for the people who are at least fighting for your right to survival?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Oh.

So this isn’t a prison?

https://www.google.com/search?q=prison+yard+play&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=visn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOuZa8ivnwAhUICc0KHYI2BdoQ_AUoAnoECAEQAg&biw=375&bih=553#imgrc=cNfwjJJp_ZfupM

Look at these bastards having fun. Obviously that can’t be a prison right based on your logic?

What do you think my logic is that you are basing that on?

The exercise yard or 1 hour of freedom before being put back under lock and key for the other 23 hours of confinement? That is a prison. The people of Gaza can spend all day at the beach, nobody is rounding them up to go back to their homes or imposing curfews or anything. It's hardly the pile of rubble some people think it is.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What do you think my logic is that you are basing that on?

The exercise yard or 1 hour of freedom before being put back under lock and key for the other 23 hours of confinement? That is a prison. The people of Gaza can spend all day at the beach, nobody is rounding them up to go back to their homes or imposing curfews or anything. It's hardly the pile of rubble some people think it is.

So because their prison guards don’t go round them up from the beach it’s not a prison even though the prison guards control all the food water electricity healthcare and imports. Riiiiight.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

How could they hope to begin serving basic interests when Israel has a stranglehold on those interests: electricity, water, food, healthcare etc.

Maybe if Palestine was allowed to exist as a state we would see them able to support their own basic interests and not be enslaved to Israel.

If Israel has a stranglehold on food for example, and there is no way for Gaza to trade how do the people not starve to death?

Also, here's an idea - how about instead of building tunnel networks and acquiring rockets and guns, how about Hamas focus their attentions on providing something constructive for the people.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What do you think my logic is that you are basing that on?

The exercise yard or 1 hour of freedom before being put back under lock and key for the other 23 hours of confinement? That is a prison. The people of Gaza can spend all day at the beach, nobody is rounding them up to go back to their homes or imposing curfews or anything. It's hardly the pile of rubble some people think it is.

Maybe they are scared to go to the beach?

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-military-launched-missiles-children-playing-gaza-beach

The Israeli military launched missiles at a beach in the Gaza Strip during its 2014 offensive without first verifying that its targets were actually Palestinian children rather than combatants, according to investigatory materials that Adalah – The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel and Al Mezan Center for Human Rights (Gaza) received from the Israeli military.

In our research, we always work on the assumption that there are only Hamas members there.”

Israeli military did not take any measures to ascertain whether the targets on the ground were civilians, let alone children, prior to intentionally directing the attacks against them.

Not that the Israeli army give a shìt

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/gaza-beach-bombing-killed-four-boys-was-legal-says-israeli-army

But yeah, keep defending them.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So because their prison guards don’t go round them up from the beach it’s not a prison even though the prison guards control all the food water electricity healthcare and imports. Riiiiight.

Let's indulge your nonsense for a moment and say it's a prison. Why does Egypt not provide relief on the other border? Surely they are equally culpable?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If Israel has a stranglehold on food for example, and there is no way for Gaza to trade how do the people not starve to death?

So you’re arguing Israel really should commit daylight genocide and starve them out? Their support from the US still depends on them not doing something so monumentally dumb.

Also, here's an idea - how about instead of building tunnel networks and acquiring rockets and guns, how about Hamas focus their attentions on providing something constructive for the people.

With what permit? :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If Israel has a stranglehold on food for example, and there is no way for Gaza to trade how do the people not starve to death?

Also, here's an idea - how about instead of building tunnel networks and acquiring rockets and guns, how about Hamas focus their attentions on providing something constructive for the people.

Because they give them just enough to survive, you really don't know much about the situation there do you?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza

Israel calculated the calorie needs for Gaza's population so as to restrict the quantity of food it allowed in.

Israel imposed the blockade after identifying Gaza as a "hostile territory" in September 2007, following the takeover by Hamas. The Israeli resolution said it intended severe restrictions on civilians. Israel said the blockade was necessary to weaken Hamas. But critics say the blockade constituted collective punishment against Gaza's population of more than 1.5 million.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's indulge your nonsense for a moment and say it's a prison. Why does Egypt not provide relief on the other border? Surely they are equally culpable?

Sure. Egypt agreed to police its own border with Gaza. And they should be equally pressured to not. However I don’t think Egypt is through where Gazans get their electricity or healthcare etc. and Egypt’s involvement doesn’t mean Israel is not the prison warden here.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Sure. Egypt agreed to police its own border with Gaza. And they should be equally pressured to not. However I don’t think Egypt is through where Gazans get their electricity or healthcare etc. and Egypt’s involvement doesn’t mean Israel is not the prison warden here.

So the food, electricity, healthcare is provided through Israel? Egypt imposes a blockade but doesn't actually provide anything, and yet Israel are the bad guys? Why do we only hear about Israel and nothing about Egypt?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So the food, electricity, healthcare is provided through Israel? Egypt imposes a blockade but doesn't actually provide anything, and yet Israel are the bad guys? Why do we only hear about Israel and nothing about Egypt?

Because Egypt isn’t Bombing children? That might’ve been a clue.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So you’re arguing Israel really should commit daylight genocide and starve them out?

Are you from the Cathy Newman school of debate?

So what you're saying is the Israelis should roll over and let the Palestinians dance a little jig on their heads? Is that what you're saying?