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Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

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    #3482
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,585 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You think violence is the reason for no settlements in Gaza? Laughable.

    My point was - Gaza just got bombarded for over a week in retaliatory strikes. Israel did more damage to Gaza than Gaza ever will to Israel. That is why I mean by the "pointlessness of the violence option".

    You think israels bombardment of Gaza and the murder of children did no damage to Israel?


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    #3483
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Odhinn wrote: »
    What is the reason then so?

    The Israel Defense Forces left the Gaza Strip on 1 September 2005 as part of Israel's unilateral disengagement plan and all Israeli citizens were evicted from the area.


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    #3484
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Israel Defense Forces left the Gaza Strip on 1 September 2005 as part of Israel's unilateral disengagement plan and all Israeli citizens were evicted from the area.




    I know. I'm asking why.


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    #3485
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I know. I'm asking why.

    Because they realised it made no sense to occupy a territory in which they would be so heavily outnumbered. The point I was making is - they weren't forced out by Hamas through violent means. It was Israel who made the decision.


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    #3486
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because they realised it made no sense to occupy a territory in which they would be so heavily outnumbered. The point I was making is - they weren't forced out by Hamas through violent means. It was Israel who made the decision.




    ...a decision based on on the constant threat of Hamas and others.


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    #3487
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ...a decision based on on the constant threat of Hamas and others.

    If you say so. That has no basis in reality and defies Israel's long record of not negotiating with or kowtowing to terrorists, but I'm sure you have some solid Intel to back up that assertion.


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    #3488
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    The isrealis are amateur civilian killers, they should take a leaf out of Englands books and send their proxies in to do it for them, no bad press and it will make you look like the good guys.

    Call it the "Isreali defence association" or whatever.


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    #3489
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you say so. .............




    The IDF & the Israeli state withdrew in the face of unremitting hostility on the part of Gazans. You can stick your fingers in your ears all ye want.


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    #3490
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,585 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Because they realised it made no sense to occupy a territory in which they would be so heavily outnumbered. The point I was making is - they weren't forced out by Hamas through violent means. It was Israel who made the decision.

    So they were forced out through the threat of violence.


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    #3491
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Is he any worse than Netanyahu, or just more honest about his intentions?


    Naftali Bennett: Israel’s far-right prime minister in waiting




    Former leader of Jewish settler group is infamous for making incendiary comments about the Palestinians
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/naftali-bennett-israel-far-right-palestinians


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    #3492
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,842 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Bennett and Bibi used to be close, till they had a falling out.

    It's a bizarre coalition, a guy even more to the right than Bibi forms a coalition with a centrist and an Israeli Arab party.

    Maybe his lust for power and dislike for Bibi is the reason he agreed to it


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    #3493
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 21,053 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    i see the new president is a paddy ...should be fine now!


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    #3494
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,084 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    i see the new president is a paddy ...should be fine now!

    So long as he isn't also a cyclist. They are done for if he is.


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    #3495
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,443 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    i see the new president is a paddy ...should be fine now!

    Did they hold the vote already?


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    #3496
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Is he any worse than Netanyahu, or just more honest about his intentions?




    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/03/naftali-bennett-israel-far-right-palestinians

    He is saying what Netanyahu has already been doing for years, your classic honest racist. This is why I can’t really get into supporting either side. Both have values that are just alien to ours.


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    #3497
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,443 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    He is saying what Netanyahu has already been doing for years, your classic honest racist. This is why I can’t really get into supporting either side. Both have values that are just alien to ours.

    If he's more overt about it maybe it will be harder to get away with.

    Obviously though this is a pretty sad state of affairs. There are liberal Israelis but they are under the thumb.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8NJjp_3kHs


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    #3498
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 40,032 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I know it’s been reported that the opposition parties are united in that they want Netanyahu out of power and that’s all they seem to agree on. I mean it still has to be voted on by the Israeli parliament and that one issue is hardly a good basis for a long government.


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    #3499
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    There are about 10 ethnic wars going on in the world at present. But let's harp on about the Palestinians ad nauseum.
    If Israel didht exist they'd have been carved up among the **** Arab regimes around them.


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    #3500
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,443 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    There are about 10 ethnic wars going on in the world at present. But let's harp on about the Palestinians ad nauseum.

    Why not start a thread on any of the other 9, or does your concern for those only extend so far as being a tool in an effort to belittle discussing Palestine and Israel?


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    #3501
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    guy2231 wrote: »
    The isrealis are amateur civilian killers, they should take a leaf out of Englands books and send their proxies in to do it for them, no bad press and it will make you look like the good guys.

    Call it the "Isreali defence association" or whatever.

    They have done that in Lebanon. Their proxies there have killed Irish soldiers.


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    #3502
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    He is saying what Netanyahu has already been doing for years, your classic honest racist. This is why I can’t really get into supporting either side. Both have values that are just alien to ours.

    Palestinians are generally very moderate in terms of their islamic beliefs. There is a large proportion of christians there also although lots have left since Israel was created. Edit: Not so large now, was about 10% before Israel and is less than 1% in Gaza and 1-2.5% in the WB.


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    #3503
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Mimon wrote: »
    Palestinians are generally very moderate in terms of their islamic beliefs. There is a large proportion of christians there also although lots have left since Israel was created. Edit: Not so large now, was about 10% before Israel and is less than 1% in Gaza and 1-2.5% in the WB.

    That’s the way these tribal wars go. Moderation is seen as weakness, treachery. Thus the Christians have left and secular Muslims lose their legitimacy.


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    #3504
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    That’s the way these tribal wars go. Moderation is seen as weakness, treachery. Thus the Christians have left and secular Muslims lose their legitimacy.

    Sad to see diversity diminishing in the middle east. In Iraq that most Christians have left their homes and have to live in the Kurdish areas or have left altogether. More western interfering fecking up counties, there have been Christians for 2000 years in Iraq.


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    #3505
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    https://www.thejournal.ie/bds-department-of-foreign-affairs-occupation-5456981-Jun2021/

    “Justice for Palestine means dismantling the apartheid Israeli state and creating a single secular state’

    What a drooling moron, why not try that in any Muslim country first and see how it goes? Why not go over to a Muslim country and preach this nonsense? These are pro LGBT on the side of those that would not tolerate them. Women are second class citizens in Muslim countries. The disconnect displayed is astounding. Why would I listen to people that clearly know nothing about the Middle East and this situation.


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    #3506
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/bds-department-of-foreign-affairs-occupation-5456981-Jun2021/

    “Justice for Palestine means dismantling the apartheid Israeli state and creating a single secular state’

    What a drooling moron, why not try that in any Muslim country first and see how it goes? Why not go over to a Muslim country and preach this nonsense? These are pro LGBT on the side of those that would not tolerate them. Women are second class citizens in Muslim countries. The disconnect displayed is astounding. Why would I listen to people that clearly know nothing about the Middle East and this situation.

    I have some sympathy for your point. The Arabs have not taken to democracy. You can only blame the West so for this. However what is the alternative? The Israelis just keep taking more of the west bank and locking in the gaza strip?? What about Israeli Arabs? They will eventually unite. Demographics are not in the Jews favour though predictions of them being out bred are quite premature.


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    #3507
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,586 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I have some sympathy for your point. The Arabs have not taken to democracy. You can only blame the West so for this.

    Really? That's nonsense. It's the Arabs (whoever you mean by that), that haven't taken to democracy because they haven't. This predates Israel by a century at least.
    However what is the alternative? The Israelis just keep taking more of the west bank and locking in the gaza strip?? What about Israeli Arabs? They will eventually unite. Demographics are not in the Jews favour though predictions of them being out bred are quite premature.

    Visionary leadership on all sides, or nothing will change.


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    #3508
    guy2231
    Site Banned Posts: 339 ✭✭guy2231


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I have some sympathy for your point. The Arabs have not taken to democracy. You can only blame the West so for this. However what is the alternative? The Israelis just keep taking more of the west bank and locking in the gaza strip?? What about Israeli Arabs? They will eventually unite. Demographics are not in the Jews favour though predictions of them being out bred are quite premature.

    A lot of Arab countries realise the USA through the intelligence services and media control can largely influence the results of elections so they are actually doing the smart thing giving democracy a miss.


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    #3509
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I have some sympathy for your point. The Arabs have not taken to democracy. You can only blame the West so for this. However what is the alternative? The Israelis just keep taking more of the west bank and locking in the gaza strip?? What about Israeli Arabs? They will eventually unite. Demographics are not in the Jews favour though predictions of them being out bred are quite premature.

    Ireland only became secular very recently, so we have no right lecturing others on this. To add to this Muslim nations are not secular so it an idiotic idea to put forward.

    The boarders changed after WW2 in lots of places so they can complain all they want but that ship has sailed. You can try and blame the West all you want but we are not a homogeneous group. This is not our fight and these people certainly are not our allies.


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    #3510
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,332 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    guy2231 wrote: »
    A lot of Arab countries realise the USA through the intelligence services and media control can largely influence the results of elections so they are actually doing the smart thing giving democracy a miss.

    Because Islamic extremists are so much better?


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    #3511
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Really? That's nonsense. It's the Arabs (whoever you mean by that), that haven't taken to democracy because they haven't. This predates Israel by a century at least.



    Visionary leadership on all sides, or nothing will change.

    I'm not sure why you are attacking me over democracy and the middle East. I think the west and other powers held back democracy. Look at the French in Syria but at this stage the west can't be blamed for the lack of democracy. You can't blame the West in 2021


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