Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Bobtheman

guy2231 wrote: »

A lot of Arab countries realise the USA through the intelligence services and media control can largely influence the results of elections so they are actually doing the smart thing giving democracy a miss.

Simplistic drivel. So they love being locked up and torturesd in their thousands? The rampant corruption.

Bobtheman

Potatoeman wrote: »

Ireland only became secular very recently, so we have no right lecturing others on this. To add to this Muslim nations are not secular so it an idiotic idea to put forward.

The boarders changed after WW2 in lots of places so they can complain all they want but that ship has sailed. You can try and blame the West all you want but we are not a homogeneous group. This is not our fight and these people certainly are not our allies.

I think you are being simplistic here. We had democracy straight away in 1922. We consistently elected governments that backed the Church position. We had a free press. We had freedom of movement.
At anytime the electorate could have chosen more Liberal politics. They Choose not to until the 1960s-90s
Christianity had the enlightenment. We started doubting the Bible as an trusted historical document a while back. Muslims are only beginning this process.
The Church certainly had huge influence here you can't compare our state to say Saudi Arabia. Or any Arab or Persian state. You could get condoms in Ireland if you had money and the press did attack the Government. Our secularisation started only 40 years after we got independence.
In many middle ease states they went in a secular direction and then were driven back to more religious influence as time went on. Look at Iran for instance. Or Egypt. Its a fluid state.
I just don't think its fair to say we can't attack muslin states because we just got secular. Bollix. No substantial point there.. We started tearing down church and Conservative forces in the 196os. Many reforms. Your knowledge of Irish history does not go very far unless you believe gay marriage beats divorce 25 years ago!! Or condoms 35 years ago. They were legalised for all in 1986 and for married people in 1979 by Haughley who was a terrible hypocrite.
Ireland - for better or worse has been on a secular path since the 1960s. The Muslim world has rarely gone in a straight line in terms of throwing off religious influence. A lot of reversals.

guy2231

Bobtheman wrote: »

Simplistic drivel. So they love being locked up and torturesd in their thousands? The rampant corruption.

And democracy would change all that?

This happens everywhere in the middle east does it?

Bobtheman

No you seemed to imply they didn't want democracy.
But yes Liberal democracy and not the type practiced in say Russia.
Democracy needs a civil society and I'm not sure the Muslim religion or society encourages that.
Christianity had many values that encouraged civil society and eventually democracy from that.
I recommend Dominion by Tom Holland.

Bobtheman

In Liberal democracies we generally don't torture our own citizens.

Potatoeman

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think you are being simplistic here. We had democracy straight away in 1922. We consistently elected governments that backed the Church position. We had a free press. We had freedom of movement.
At anytime the electorate could have chosen more Liberal politics. They Choose not to until the 1960s-90s
Christianity had the enlightenment. We started doubting the Bible as an trusted historical document a while back. Muslims are only beginning this process.
The Church certainly had huge influence here you can't compare our state to say Saudi Arabia. Or any Arab or Persian state. You could get condoms in Ireland if you had money and the press did attack the Government. Our secularisation started only 40 years after we got independence.
In many middle ease states they went in a secular direction and then were driven back to more religious influence as time went on. Look at Iran for instance. Or Egypt. Its a fluid state.
I just don't think its fair to say we can't attack muslin states because we just got secular. Bollix. No substantial point there.. We started tearing down church and Conservative forces in the 196os. Many reforms. Your knowledge of Irish history does not go very far unless you believe gay marriage beats divorce 25 years ago!! Or condoms 35 years ago. They were legalised for all in 1986 and for married people in 1979 by Haughley who was a terrible hypocrite.
Ireland - for better or worse has been on a secular path since the 1960s. The Muslim world has rarely gone in a straight line in terms of throwing off religious influence. A lot of reversals.

You can criticise them all you want. I think we should be blocking immigration from there and only accepting Christians and Jews from the Middle East that integrate better and don’t bring Jihadism.

Bobtheman

I agree with you on mass immigration. Look at France etc. They failed to integrate people but a lot of Muslims in both Britain and France are alienated because of poverty. Poverty also drove a lot of the norths violence.

But you have to keep in mind 99% of Muslim immigrants are not interested in terrorism.
You seem young. You don't recall what it was like for Irish people in the UK 1970s as the IRA bombed Britain. A lot of people wanted all Irish people out of the UK.

Ardillaun

There are flickering glimmers of light in the Arab world. Things are grim in Tunisia at the moment for the lgbtq community but at least they are speaking up about it:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/10/kill-them-they-are-sodomites


In Lebanon too, queer and trans people are finding their voice:

https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/interactive/2020/05/07/if-not-now-when-queer-and-trans-people-reclaim-their-power

guy2231

Bobtheman wrote: »

In Liberal democracies we generally don't torture our own citizens.

And in non liberal democracies they generally don't either.

wes

Marathon in Sheikh Jarrah attacked by the IDF:

WATCH: Israeli Forces Attack Marathon in Support of Palestinian Families in Sheikh Jarrah


The IDF can't help themselves, always resorting to violence in the face of peaceful protest.

Bobtheman

Rohingya people have been oppressed for decades.
Even under democratic rule in mynamar but why bother investigating when a bit of jew baiting is available?

wes

Bobtheman wrote: »

Rohingya people have been oppressed for decades.
Even under democratic rule in mynamar but why bother investigating when a bit of jew baiting is available?

If you cared about that, you would start a thread. Disgusting for you the use the suffering of the Rohingya to defend violence against another group.

BTW, if you cared about the Rohingya, you would be aware of Israel selling weapons to the Myanmar regime:

Israel among 7 nations faulted in UN report for arming Myanmar army

guy2231

Bobtheman wrote: »

In Liberal democracies we generally don't torture our own citizens.

Plenty of instances of torture in the last 40 years or so just in Ireland.

British government authorised torture in Ireland in the early 70s, 80s and 90s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27714715

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/oct/11/inside-castlereagh-confessions-torture

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-torture-centre-northern-ireland-s-hooded-men-1.2296152?mode=amp

Igotadose

wes wrote: »

Marathon in Sheikh Jarrah attacked by the IDF:

WATCH: Israeli Forces Attack Marathon in Support of Palestinian Families in Sheikh Jarrah


The IDF can't help themselves, always resorting to violence in the face of peaceful protest.

Hmm. 6 or so IDF being spat on and kicked in the video. Hundreds of marathoners, and a celebration at the end for the marathon. Unfortunately not clear what provoked the IDF (cue the 'they just exist to exterminate Palestinian's chorus.) Not clear how peaceful the protest was - the Marathon started without trouble (Marathon, or jog around the area while throwing rocks for all we know, cameras at the ready of course.)

wes

This is how the IDF treats children:
https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1400483306400059404?s=20

and

https://twitter.com/huwaidaarraf/status/1400071459293257738?s=20

and

https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/1399115375380287489?s=20
https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1399068987602968576?s=20

An interview with Israel's new Prime Minister a few years ago, invoking a biblical justification for land theft:
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1399079468132622339?s=20

Bobtheman

guy2231 wrote: »

Plenty of instances of torture in the last 40 years or so just in Ireland.

British government authorised torture in Ireland in the early 70s, 80s and 90s.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27714715

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/oct/11/inside-castlereagh-confessions-torture

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-torture-centre-northern-ireland-s-hooded-men-1.2296152?mode=amp

Ah jaysus get a grip. Egypt locks up thousands on bull**** charges and tortures thousands and you drag up a few cases from the North.

Bobtheman

wes wrote: »

This is how the IDF treats children:
https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1400483306400059404?s=20

and

https://twitter.com/huwaidaarraf/status/1400071459293257738?s=20

and

https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/1399115375380287489?s=20
https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/1399068987602968576?s=20

An interview with Israel's new Prime Minister a few years ago, invoking a biblical justification for land theft:
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1399079468132622339?s=20

The Chinese lock up thousands of Muslims in reduction camps. Have you ever protested about them? Not trendy enough??

Bobtheman

I can see it now Israel makes peace treaty with Palestinians after reading boards.ie thread.
Until the US deserts them the Israelis are safe.
The surrounding brutality makes them a safe bet.
I kept looking for the protests against Assad.. Oh they never happened in Ireland.
You can't beat a bit of jew baiting. Hypocrites

Timberrrrrrrr

Bobtheman wrote: »

Rohingya people have been oppressed for decades.
Even under democratic rule in mynamar but why bother investigating when a bit of jew baiting is available?

Where the thread you started on this subject?

wes

Bobtheman wrote: »

The Chinese lock up thousands of Muslims in reduction camps. Have you ever protested about them? Not trendy enough??

Again, it is disgusting to use the suffering of another group of people, to defend the atrocities committed against another. Really repugnant thing to do.

wes

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1400765522795507716?s=20

Interesting information regarding the occupied territories. A lot of apologists with egg on their faces.

wes

First hand account from the IDF attack on marathon runners:
https://twitter.com/JalalAK_jojo/status/1400849274951409669?s=20

I guess during a "cease" fire, the IDF can still engage in violence.

Ten of Swords

Bobtheman do not post in this thread again

wes

Some details on the attack Palestinians running protest yesterday:
Israeli police attack Palestinians running to protest expulsions


The IDF inability to stop violence, even during a "cease" fire is astonishing. The hypocrisy of the West, that calls for Palestinians to stop violence, but then chooses to ignore it, when the IDF doesn't stop.

Odhinn

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know it’s been reported that the opposition parties are united in that they want Netanyahu out of power and that’s all they seem to agree on. I mean it still has to be voted on by the Israeli parliament and that one issue is hardly a good basis for a long government.

It's an 8 party coalition, so I'd say it'd be like herding cats for as long as it lasts.

Ardillaun

Bobtheman wrote: »

There are about 10 ethnic wars going on in the world at present. But let's harp on about the Palestinians ad nauseum.
If Israel didht exist they'd have been carved up among the **** Arab regimes around them.

Start a thread on any one of them, then.

Ardillaun

Bobtheman wrote: »

The Chinese lock up thousands of Muslims in reduction camps. Have you ever protested about them? Not trendy enough??

I’ve repeatedly discussed the plight of the Uighurs on forums such as this. To claim that Irish concern for Palestinian rights is all about anti-Semitism is extraordinary coming from an apparently Irish person. Have you read our own history at all?

wes

IDF assaulting a Al Jazeera journalist and arresting them:
https://twitter.com/LeahHardingAJE/status/1401231098919768071?s=20

I guess no free press in Israel, if they dare to report on the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

Timberrrrrrrr

wes wrote: »

IDF assaulting a Al Jazeera journalist and arresting them:
https://twitter.com/LeahHardingAJE/status/1401231098919768071?s=20

I guess no free press in Israel, if they dare to report on the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

But the pro Israeli crowd always tell us that Israel is the only true free country in that region.

OneMan37

It’s sad to see a modern army or terror network like Hamas use women and children as human shields. God bless Israel may God have mercy on those who wish Israel harm.


SCRIPTURES ABOUT
BLESSING ISRAEL

“I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
- Genesis 12:1-3