Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

nacho libre

Shin Bet must have good intelligence, the top brass in the Hamas Military wing have been wiped out.
With this in mind it maybe interesting to note who the Israelis don't target within hamas the longer this goes on.
It looks like these Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades commanders thought they were safe in underground bunkers, maybe they had not reckoned with Israel using bunker buster bombs in Gaza city to get them. I suspect Hamas while in public saying they are ready for war, are in private seeking a ceasefire with the help of Egypt

If, as the elimination of the top Hamas commanders demonstrates, Israel with their technological superiority and human intelligence assets, really wanted to they could prevent Hamas from stockpiling all these rockets. As we see in Syria, they regularly prevent arm shipments from Iran reaching Hezbollah.
So the question is why do they allow Hamas to do this?

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah and look at the basket case South Africa is becoming as a result.
.

Condeming yourself with those remarks.

Deleted User wrote: »

RE the settlements/colonies.......honestly I'm not a fan, I would ideally like to see defence being purely defensive. However considering the level of hatred and hostility directed towards them, I have some sympathy for them wanting to create a bit of a buffer zone between themselves and their neighbours/rocket launchers. No amount of appeasement by Israel will win them any favour with the Arabs. Any weakness will be pounced upon. So I can understand a little bit why they give zero F's and do what they have to do.

....but they aren't creating a "buffer zone", they're creating apartment complexes and semi-detached housing. They don't "have to" expand outside their borders.

Housefree

livia21 wrote: »

Just seen the videos of some Zionist youth lynching a man whilst Israeli police stand by..Foking barbaric savages

Just looking at Aljazeera news and they reckon it was a Jewish person they attacked by mistake.

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group
https://www.ipsc.ie/

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign
https://bdsmovement.net/

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Strumms

I don’t think Biden is covering himself in glory whatsoever as regards this conflict...

He is in fact being trashed by his own press at home due to his cowardly quiet.

Almost like he expects the shît to hit the fan, but doesn’t want to be on either side of the fallout.

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So I can understand a little bit why they give zero F's and do what they have to do.

I agree with this, Israel must find the threat of conflict from all sides quite tiring.

I'm surprised there has been no response from the Syrian side at this stage.

namloc1980

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t think Biden is covering himself in glory whatsoever as regards this conflict...

He is in fact being trashed by his own press at home due to his cowardly quiet.

What do you expect him to do? Like every other US administration they will support Israel no matter what.

Overheal

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Israelis are not going to lose a wink of sleep over some of the posters venting here as if ragging on Israel is going to make a wit of difference to the conflict playing out.

You know what, I take it back, Israel may actually be very interested to know what is discussed here as the same energy here was once channeled through the Irish ambassador to the UN and shoved in the face of the Israeli ambassador to the UN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk4Vk0Iixrg

He did a great job and he should be up for a commendation.

edit: er - sorry, TD, at the Dail, but etc.

Hqrry113

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t think Biden is covering himself in glory whatsoever as regards this conflict...

He is in fact being trashed by his own press at home due to his cowardly quiet.

Almost like he expects the shît to hit the fan, but doesn’t want to be on either side of the fallout.

Same with most Politicians they just play it safe and say nothing until the opportunity arises to say something minimal and vague, I'm no fan of Trump but at least he used to voice his opinion on matters with Biden no one ever has any idea what's going on in that dopey head of his.

The Israelis are absolute animals. Very one sided.

A barbaric cruel nation of people.

Mimon

Northernlily wrote: »

The Israelis are absolute animals. Very one sided.

A barbaric cruel nation of people.

You bumped into them backpacking aswell ?

Strumms

namloc1980 wrote: »

What do you expect him to do? Like every other US administration they will support Israel no matter what.

I expect him to be an honest broker... call a spade a spade...

But he’s obviously not willing to loose votes from the Jewish/pro Israel lobby for the democrats though...

The Israelis could nuke x country off the map without provocation and there would be us presidents who’d be quiet to criticize, it’s a head scratcher..

nacho libre

nacho libre wrote: »

Shin Bet must have good intelligence, the top brass in the Hamas Military wing have been wiped out.
With this in mind it maybe interesting to note who the Israelis don't target within hamas the longer this goes on.
It looks like these Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades commanders thought they were safe in underground bunkers, maybe they had not reckoned with Israel using bunker buster bombs in Gaza city to get them. I suspect Hamas while in public saying they are ready for war, are in private seeking a ceasefire with the help of Egypt

If, as the elimination of the top Hamas commanders demonstrates, Israel with their technological superiority and human intelligence assets, really wanted to they could prevent Hamas from stockpiling all these rockets. As we see in Syria, they regularly prevent arm shipments from Iran reaching Hezbollah.
So the question is why do they allow Hamas to do this?

Besides Hamas' top brass peasants being "wiped out" the IDF warplanes have been targeting media, government and police institutions of Gaza over the past few days.

o1s1n

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah and look at the basket case South Africa is becoming as a result..

So they should have kept apartheid in place to avoid it turning into a 'basket case'?

Careful there, your veil is beginning to slip...

namloc1980

Strumms wrote: »

I expect him to be an honest broker... call a spade a spade...

I've got news for you, no US president will ever be an "honest broker" when it comes to Israel.

Overheal

Strumms wrote: »

I expect him to be an honest broker... call a spade a spade...

But he’s obviously not willing to loose votes from the Jewish/pro Israel lobby for the democrats though...

The Israelis could nuke x country off the map without provocation and there would be us presidents who’d be quiet to criticize, it’s a head scratcher..

Israel's media are blaming Biden for all of this...

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/biden-failed-the-rockets-and-riots-test-analysis-667920

They blame Biden for reversing a lame-duck decision by the Trump administration to designate Houthi rebels in Yemen as a terror organization, and for lifting Trumps ban on humanitarian aid to Palestine, which at the time Trump and his administration argued was largely due to them 'not being grateful enough to us.'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45377336

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pompeo-declare-houthis-terrorist-group-amid-fears-it-will-worsen-n1253676

ypres5

Odhinn wrote: »

Given the settlements/colonies, they most certainly are


Settlement building and land confiscation are not acts of self defence but clearly aggression.








It's the second most sacred in Islam.

3rd, the grand mosque and the mosque of the prophet are 1st and 2nd

Northernlily

Northernlily wrote: »

The Israelis are absolute animals. Very one sided.

A barbaric cruel nation of people.

Compared to whom?

Odhinn

Mimon wrote: »

You bumped into them backpacking aswell ?

??

Strumms

namloc1980 wrote: »

I've got news for you, no US president will ever be an "honest broker" when it comes to Israel.

Obama was the closest we got.

In his book, he is very positive about the leaderships of Israel... less about skullduggery and he also believed that...

“Regarding AIPAC, the pro-Israel lobbying group, Obama charges that its positions moved rightward in accordance with the political shift in Israel, “even when Israel took actions that were contrary to US policy.” He laments that politicians who “criticized Israel policy too loudly risked being tagged as ‘anti-Israel’ (and possibly anti-Semitic) and [were confronted with a well-funded opponent in the next election.”

Obama says he was the subject of a “whisper campaign” that sought to portray him as “insufficiently supportive or even hostile toward Israel” during the 2008 presidential race.

Basically Israel are more comfortable with a right wing buddy and ‘friend’ of Israel in the White House. Will undermine anyone and everyone not singing their song.

o1s1n

o1s1n wrote: »

So they should have kept apartheid in place to avoid it turning into a 'basket case'?

Careful there, your veil is beginning to slip...

Am not saying that per se, but there are always unintended consequences for seemingly well meaning decisions. Israel can't afford to lose a military conflict. They will be driven into the sea and exterminated. So regardless of what the world thinks, they have to be self sufficient and look out for numero uno. They can't rely on anyone to take care of them. If that means they have to make fought decisions, well that is unfortunate but let's not pretend that Hamas are innocent vegan pacifists here.

Overheal

Strumms wrote: »

Obama was the closest we got.

In his book, he is very positive about the leaderships of Israel... less about skullduggery and he also believed that...

“Regarding AIPAC, the pro-Israel lobbying group, Obama charges that its positions moved rightward in accordance with the political shift in Israel, “even when Israel took actions that were contrary to US policy.” He laments that politicians who “criticized Israel policy too loudly risked being tagged as ‘anti-Israel’ (and possibly anti-Semitic) and [were confronted with a well-funded opponent in the next election.”

Obama says he was the subject of a “whisper campaign” that sought to portray him as “insufficiently supportive or even hostile toward Israel” during the 2008 presidential race.

Basically Israel are more comfortable with a right wing buddy and ‘friend’ of Israel in the White House. Will undermine anyone and everyone not singing their song.

It does make me wonder about a Jewish American president: wouldn't this situation constantly place them in a crisis of dual loyalty?

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Am not saying that per se, but there are always unintended consequences for seemingly well meaning decisions. Israel can't afford to lose a military conflict. They will be driven into the sea and exterminated. So regardless of what the world thinks, they have to be self sufficient and look out for numero uno. They can't rely on anyone to take care of them. If that means they have to make fought decisions, well that is unfortunate but let's not pretend that Hamas are innocent vegan pacifists here.

But they do, in the form of the US. Without US (or another UNSC state) backing its game over.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I expect him to be an honest broker... call a spade a spade...

But he’s obviously not willing to loose votes from the Jewish/pro Israel lobby for the democrats though...

The Israelis could nuke x country off the map without provocation and there would be us presidents who’d be quiet to criticize, it’s a head scratcher..

Give uncle Joe a break, he's probably due a nap anyway. Honestly it scares me that the US effectively has a puppet president.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

But they do, in the form of the US. Without US (or another UNSC state) backing its game over.

Game over meaning what exactly? Sounds ominous.

I think a lot of counties rely on the US as a friend, none more than ourselves. But the Israelis know that might not always be the case.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Give uncle Joe a break, he's probably due a nap anyway. Honestly it scares me that the US effectively has a puppet president.

A very thinly veiled "Biden has dementia" post. Sad.

batman75

This is a complex topic for me to comment on. I enjoy visiting Israel and love Tel Aviv. I find Jerusalem to be a fascinating city historically and a completely different experience to Tel Aviv. I love the food and the weather. That being said I would completely condemn Israel for their attacks on Gaza. The horribly irony is that Israel view Arabs as the Nazi's view Jews. Clearly no lessons learned.
As has been said before no US president is an honest broker when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict. They will always side with Israel. Their is a troubling lack of humility by Israel towards its Arab neighbour. An Arab life has as much value as a Jewish life. Until that basic principle is
recognised by Israel there can be not true equal relationship between Israel and the Palestinian territories. The Palestinian people are truly oppressed and within Israel treated as second class citizens. Just for the record I would condemn Hamas attacks on Israel.
That being said Israel has, by denying the Palestinian state a port and airport at Gaza, helped create a slum in the Gaza Strip. This is not acceptable and the world has been shameful in allowing one country to deny another basic infrastructure. Again this harks back to how the Nazi's viewed Jews as inferior beings. It is equally shameful how Palestine's Arab neighbours watch as their brethren are treated like the blacks were in South Africa under apartheid.
I would love Michael Martin to grow a pair and call out Israel for how they treat Palestinians. I believe he has a duty too considering how Catholics in Northern Ireland were treated under Unionist rule.
My last point is, it is no longer or should no longer be that criticism of Israel gets batted away with cries of being anti semitics. It is the state of Israel which is out of order here. The attacks on Palestine must stop. The land grabs must stop.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

A very thinly veiled "Biden has dementia" post. Sad.

I like Biden he seems nice. But it's clear he is losing his cognitive abilities. It's horrible to watch.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Game over meaning what exactly? Sounds ominous.

Game over meaning no more impunity, no more expansion.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think a lot of counties rely on the US as a friend, none more than ourselves. But the Israelis know that might not always be the case.

They do indeed, its why they're terrified by BDS.

Strumms

Overheal wrote: »

It does make me wonder about a Jewish American president: wouldn't this situation constantly place them in a crisis of dual loyalty?

By my maths, it’s been 232 or so years since the election of the first US president.

In that time there has never been a Jewish or a person of Israeli ethnicity elected to become president. I can’t recall any VP either.

I think there would be a conflict...yes.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

It does make me wonder about a Jewish American president: wouldn't this situation constantly place them in a crisis of dual loyalty?

Wasn't this bigoted line of thinking used against JFK? His enemies thought he would be more loyal to the Vatican than to the US.

Would you have a similar thoughts about a Muslim politician facing Mecca several times a day to pray?