Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

wes

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'd be all for that. You see it's hard for me to take sides because at the end of the day they're all *****. Europeans as you say invaded and absolutely ruined the natives and the same in Canada and South America.

The Jews in Israel have more in common with the native Americans who unlike the Jews were unsuccessful in taking control back of most of their area.

The genetic evidence says you wrong:
DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in modern Arabs and Jews

ypres5

wes wrote: »

Again, you assume Arab = Muslim. Arab Christians do exist.

Also, genetic evidence of the current day, shows Palestinians, who again can be Christian and Muslims and yes other Religions are descended from people who have always lived there.

An 18th century diatribe written by an apologist for templars is not really proof of anything, and as I said the fact it equates Arab to Muslim is a pretty big red flag and the fact that people seem to be repeating this is utterly bizarre. Its not the 18th century, surely people know Religion and ethnicity are not the same thing.

I know Arab christians exist, just barely though their presence in the middle east is precarious with a few exceptions like Jordan, Lebanon and ironically enough Israel where Arab christians are one of the most educated and wealthy groups.

jimmycrackcorm

markodaly wrote: »

The victim is the one who is shooting hundreds of rockets into civilian areas with no care in the world who they kill, like a 6-year-old boy.

You do know that targeting civilians areas is a war crime.

Do you condemn war crimes committed by Hamas, a yes or no answer, please?

The Israeli response has always been totally disproportionate. The equivalent for us might have been for every British soldier or citizen killed by the IRA that the British would kill 50 Irish in response.

wes

ypres5 wrote: »

One of the less so decent destroyed the original Church of the Holy Sepulchre, arguably the most sacred site in the Christian world. This whole idea that the Israelis are monsters is a bit unfair when you look at how religious and ethnic minorities across the rest of the middle east have been decimated to the point their community's barely exist anymore such as the Assyrians, Copts, Yazidis, Armenians, Greeks etc are all barely hanging on for dear life when their presence in places like Anatolia, the Levant and Egypt predates Islamic and Arab presence.

So basically Israel are not bad due to other people doing horrible things in the distant past.

Have you read the Bible btw, full of historical example of all kinds of horrible stuff.

Sure what about the sea people, we can't condemn later Arab invaders, as the sea people destroyed bronze age civilization.

Sorry, but you reasoning is that due to people doing bad things in the past, we don't dare call Israel bad is imo kind of absurd, and completely irrelevant.

Again, I will reiterate, the people who live there today (Palestinians and middle eastern Jews), have always been there. They are the result of the various migrations, invasion's etc that have happened over the centuries.

wes

ypres5 wrote: »

I know Arab christians exist, just barely though their presence in the middle east is precarious with a few exceptions like Jordan, Lebanon and ironically enough Israel where Arab christians are one of the most educated and wealthy groups.

Yeah, and Zionist mobs didn't distinguish between Christian and Muslim Palestinians, as they attacked Palestinians, and their property last night. The mobs even attacked a Jewish man they mistook for Palestinian.

RoyalCelt

From an English man on Facebook.

"Also I find it super weird as an Englishman who thinks we should just release NI back to the Republic, that people seem to think that Israel has no claim to that land due to how long its been under someone else's rule.

As England's occupied Ireland since 1169. And I'm fairly certain most if not all here present think Ireland should have it back?"

He has a point. Should we just accept Britain has a divine right to the north because they've controlled it for about as long as the arabs controlled Palestine?

Ideally you want a shared state with peace but the Jews will never accept that and the arabs won't either. So two separate states with freedom of movement? Sounds good but we all know it would become suicide bomber heaven.

Odhinn

RoyalCelt wrote: »

..........................

Ideally you want a shared state with peace but the Jews will never accept that and the arabs won't either. So two separate states with freedom of movement? Sounds good but we all know it would become suicide bomber heaven.

you mean Palestinians?

markodaly

KeepItLight wrote: »

Who gives a toss? They don't get to dictate reality for the rest of us, as much as they might want to try.

Yes, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, which is recognised as the gold standard in defining Anti-Semitism by many know nothing about what constitutes anti-Semitism.
Instead, some people on an Irish internet forum do.

Inconvenient truths are still truths.

As we have seen in this thread and in recent posts, it's dripping with both overt and unconscious anti-Semitism.

wes

RoyalCelt wrote: »

From an English man on Facebook.

"Also I find it super weird as an Englishman who thinks we should just release NI back to the Republic, that people seem to think that Israel has no claim to that land due to how long its been under someone else's rule.

As England's occupied Ireland since 1169. And I'm fairly certain most if not all here present think Ireland should have it back?"

He has a point. Should we just accept Britain has a divine right to the north because they've controlled it for about as long as the arabs controlled Palestine?

Ideally you want a shared state with peace but the Jews will never accept that and the arabs won't either. So two separate states with freedom of movement? Sounds good but we all know it would become suicide bomber heaven.

Again, Palestinians have always been there. You seem intent on ignoring that inconvenient fact for some reason. Why do you keep referring to Palestinians as Arabs? They have their own identity, and imo you seem to be repeating the phrase the same way Zionists do, to deny Palestinians exist, which imo is problematic.

Also, when was the last time their was a suicide attack in this conflict?

Also, who cares what a British man on facebook says.

Lmkrnr

Odhinn wrote: »

Attacking Jews because of their ethnicity/religion is unacceptable, regardless.

That wasn't my point. My point is the reason Jews will get attacked is because of the current policy of the Jewish government.

Attacking inocents is always wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It will and its better to know the why, otherwise the cycle will never end.

wes

Lmkrnr wrote: »

That wasn't my point. My point is the reason Jews will get attacked is because of the current policy of the Jewish government.

Attacking inocents is always wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It will and its better to know the why, otherwise the cycle will never end.

Same thing happens to Muslims after an ISIS terror attack. Sadly we live in a world, where people will blame entire groups of people on the actions of extremists.

Lmkrnr

wes wrote: »

Same thing happens to Muslims after an ISIS terror attack. Sadly we live in a world, where people will blame entire groups of people on the actions of extremists.

Lets be honest a lot of the blame towards Muslim countries is to improve geopolitical situations. ISIS/FSAwere supplied by the jews/Israelis in South Syria.

Housefree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYB5Qc30fo

We need to keep pushing for the Occupied Territories Bill to pass in Ireland.

In real life I have not met an Irish person unsympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Which makes me question some posters on here

Israel employs an army of social media warriors
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

cheezums

Its crazy how tiny and populated gaza is. It must be hellish there. At what point do the people turn on hamas and refuse to used as human shields anymore?

Not excusing israel by the way, they are acting appallingly as usual.

namloc1980

markodaly wrote: »

No, you are getting your dates and timelines all mixed up.

The UN General Assembly voted to accept resolution 181, which created the state of Israel in 1947.
The Arabs rejected this binding and agreed upon an International agreement and treaty and launched an invasion of Israel. They were the first to break international law.

So again, why did the Arabs reject this UN resolution?

I'm afraid you are all over the shop there. The state of Israel did not come into existence until mid-May 1948 - the UN plan was never put into force and was NOT a binding agreement in any way and there was NO Treaty. Why are you making this up?

The UN resolution gave the majority of the Palestine land to Israel and meant Palestinians would have to be moved out of their homes on the proposed Israeli lands. Why would they just accept that to their own detriment?

Jewish groups then almost immediately began forcibly removing Palestinians across Palestine and by April 1948 nearly 300,000 Palestinians had been displaced. The Jewish groups also committed mass atrocities in this time period e.g Deir Yassin massacre where over 100 Arabs were slaughtered by Jewish militants in April 1948. These massacres caused panic among Palestinians who fled or were expelled by Jewish militants.

Israel unilaterally declared independence in May 1948 and increased the expulsion of Palestinians which was the cause of the entry into the war of the Arab nations neighbouring Israel. It was mass ethnic cleansing with over 700,000 Palestinians expelled by Israel. The nonsense in your post is a fantastical alternative history that is commonly pushed by Israeli authorities.

Lmkrnr

cheezums wrote: »

Its crazy how tiny and populated gaza is. It must be hellish there. At what point do the people turn on hamas and refuse to used as human shields anymore?

Not excusing israel by the way, they are acting appallingly as usual.

Educate yourself man, why is Gaza so small ffs.

cheezums

Lmkrnr wrote: »

Educate yourself man, why is Gaza so small ffs.

Excuse me? I merely commented on how small it is, i know the history of the conflict.

Lmkrnr

cheezums wrote: »

Excuse me? I merely commented on how small it is, i know the history of the conflict.

Exactly, so you know why its so small now?

Sadler Peak

Times like this you miss Robert Fisk.

jam_mac_jam

I don't really understand the logic of argument about what happened a thousand years ago having any bearing of having what bearing now.

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself but not to evict families because they want Jerusalem. Where are the Palestinians meant to go. What are they meant to do.

They should give up their land and homes because a magical book says so. Or because two thousand years ago it was Jewish.

They all have to live there and a solution needs to be found beyond we have a god given right to keep expanding without any consideration for millions of people.

jam_mac_jam

Lmkrnr wrote: »

Educate yourself man, why is Gaza so small ffs.

He didn't ask that. Just commented that it is.

Lmkrnr

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

He didn't ask that. Just commented that it is.

He said when will people stop being "used" by Hamas as Human shields. Maybe when Gaza is only 1 square foot from Jewish expansion.

joseywhales

Yeah like do we cede all claims globally to Sudan or Ethiopia, if we follow this logic of who was here first? Or is it about religion? Perhaps the Zoroastrian people can lay claim to Jerusalem?

cheezums

Lmkrnr wrote: »

He said when will people stop being "used" by Hamas as Human shields. Maybe when Gaza is only 1 square foot from Jewish expansion.

Dont know what your problem is honestly. I even condemned israel in the same post.

It is possible for both sides to be at fault. The world isn't black and white.

namloc1980

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I don't really understand the logic of argument about what happened a thousand years ago having any bearing of having what bearing now.

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself but not to evict families because they want Jerusalem. Where are the Palestinians meant to go. What are they meant to do.

They should give up their land and homes because a magical book says so. Or because two thousand years ago it was Jewish.

They all have to live there and a solution needs to be found beyond we have a good given right to keep expanding without any consideration for millions of people.

Israel is founded on the premise you have outlined - that Jews have a right to lands based on historic and biblical status. This is enshrined in Israeli law hence we see the issues with Palestinians being evicted from their homes in Jerusalem in favour of Jewish immigrants/settlers (many of whom have no connection with Jerusalem, or Israel for that matter, besides what religion they are), all based on historical/biblical claims.

KeepItLight

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, which is recognised as the gold standard in defining Anti-Semitism by many know nothing about what constitutes anti-Semitism.
Instead, some people on an Irish internet forum do.

Inconvenient truths are still truths.

As we have seen in this thread and in recent posts, it's dripping with both overt and unconscious anti-Semitism.

"Gold-standard in defining anti-Semitism" give me a ****ing break. Gold-standard of typical NGO ****e.

you sound like the ADL: "everything that criticizes Israel is anti-semetic"

Anti-Semitism used to mean people who don't like Jews. Now it means everything that Jews don't like. Call me what you want, it means nothing to me

Overheal

For the record, this is anti-semitism:

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5003402,00.html

Criticizing Israel for ethnic cleansing is not.

cnocbui

The Palestinians are Semites. Anti-semitism is a stupid term. Anti zionism is being conflated as being anti-jewish, when it isn't at all the same thing, any more than being opposed to apartheid in South Africa was the same as being anti-caucasian.

markodaly

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm afraid you are all over the shop there. The state of Israel did not come into existence until mid-May 1948 - the UN plan was never put into force and was NOT a binding agreement in any way and there was NO Treaty. Why are you making this up?

Not making anything up. The plan was not acted on because of violence and attacks on Jewish people by Arabs, thus a civil war broke out.
It is funny though, the PLO has since the 1980's used this resolution was a basis for a Palestinian state.

Anyway, the Zionists of the time accepted the plan, while the Arabs didn't.... that is just a fact.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

As we have seen in this thread and in recent posts, it's dripping with both overt and unconscious anti-Semitism.

Unconscious bias is hard to defend against, isn’t it? And any defense would be subject to the Kafka trap.

To be fair your own anti Arab biases are upfront.