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Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

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    #602
    mrcheez
    Registered Users Posts: 13,781 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    Housefree wrote: »
    They are calling out the satirical Onion article posted earlier as anti semitic
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/523533-onion-israel-anti-semitism/

    They're at it again

    https://www.theonion.com/palestinian-family-who-lost-home-in-airstrike-takes-com-1846878803

    Oy vey!


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    #603
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Your own professed anti-islamic views aside,

    Israel is a sovereign state. As is Palestine.
    So what right does Israel have to occupy the lands of another sovereign state?

    Palestine never existed as a sovereign state.

    It was land occupied by two peoples under the British mandate.


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    #604
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Totally agree, and guilty on all counts.
    But that's my viewing of the world.

    Ok. Very utopian. The problem is somebody has to give up an identity or part of it.


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    #605
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    But for the people who do identify themselves as British, what do you propose to do?

    I'm not goading you now, RC, but I genuinely want to understand how you think conflicts such as the one under topic, could be resolved.

    Is your solution to these conflicts, segregation.
    One group of people in one place, another group in another place.

    An undoing of history, if you like.

    I get we have to live with them otherwise there's war and death. Like I said if I had a magic wand I'd have them all rehoused in England and we move back to the Republic.

    Best strategy now is we just breed like rabbits and vote for a Republic in 30 years or so.

    Look I get the pro Palestine point of view. Israel are pushing them back, which causes them to bite. Then Israel responds even more heavy handed. They're the instigators. In that sense I hate the Israelis.

    But I also recognise the Palestinians would run the Israelis out of there just as fast if they'd the backing of America.


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    #606
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Palestine never existed as a sovereign state.

    It was land occupied by two peoples under the British mandate.

    Ireland never existed as a sovereign State. The alliance against the Vikings wasn’t really a sovereign state, but an alliance.

    It was one kingdom under English and British rule however.

    That doesn’t mean that we weren’t a people, ethnic group or nation in that time.


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    #607
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Ok. Very utopian. The problem is somebody has to give up an identity or part of it.

    No, we do not have to give up our identities to live together.

    We can live together with different identities. That's how most of the world live! It's normal.
    They are not mutually incompatibly, at all.

    But there needs to be a shared living arrangement, by the nation/state, to allow for that to happen.


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    #608
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    Israel can do as it likes as the US gives them billions per year and vetoes everything brought against them in the UN and will continue to do so no matter what. They continually break international law and then play the anti semitic card if you criticise their government/military for their actions and breaking international law. They are modern day Nazis ,given their history that is some turnaround.

    I agree with a lot of that but I hate the equivalence with the Nazis. If the Israelis were Nazis then the Palestinians would be ethnically cleansed by now, or killed.


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    #609
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Ireland never existed as a sovereign State. The alliance against the Vikings wasn’t really a sovereign state, but an alliance.

    It was one kingdom under English and British rule however.

    That doesn’t mean that we weren’t a people, ethnic group or nation in that time.

    If you really want to go back that far, let's not forget that the Jewish people first occupied this land and were expelled from it and the land then illegally occupied by Muslim invaders for centuries to come.

    But you want to start the clock at 1948-49, conveniently.


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    #610
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    fvp4 wrote: »
    I agree with a lot of that but I hate the equivalence with the Nazis. If the Israelis were Nazis then the Palestinians would be ethnically cleansed by now, or killed.




    The most accurate equivalence is that of Israel and Apartheid South Africa.


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    #611
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Fathi Hammad (ex Hamas Minister) tells us where Palestinians are from

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTmVp1M64Wc



    This is his message to the Palestinians.
    He recites from scriptures that mention Jews, a thousand years before the current state of Israel.

    https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1391682665514995713?s=20


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    #612
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Fathi Hammad (ex Hamas Minister) tells us where Palestinians are from

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTmVp1M64Wc



    This is his message to the Palestinians.

    https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1391682665514995713?s=20

    Which is exactly what I've said in my previous two posts.
    • Palestinians are not an ethnic group, but are part of the wider Arab population.
    • That we are dealing with Islamic fanatics - and a wider population who votes these anti-democratic fanatics into power.


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    #613
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    biko wrote: »
    Fathi Hammad (ex Hamas Minister) tells us where Palestinians are from

    https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1391682665514995713?s=20




    Posts earlier in the thread show the origin of the Palestinian people via DNA. Thats considerably more weight than cherry picked quotes by Memri, who are well known for their pro Israel advocy.


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    #614
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    If you really want to go back that far, let's not forget that the Jewish people first occupied this land and were expelled from it and the land then illegally occupied by Muslim invaders for centuries to come.

    But you want to start the clock at 1948-49, conveniently.

    Sure what about the "illegal" Hebrew invasion of Canaan. This is how silly you sound.


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    #615
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Posts earlier in the thread show the origin of the Palestinian people via DNA. Thats considerably more weight than cherry picked quotes by Memri, who are well known for their pro Israel advocy.

    It amazing how people think that they can dispute DNA evidence, somehow.


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    #616
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    No, we do not have to give up our identities to live together.

    We can live together with different identities. That's how most of the world live! It's normal.
    They are not mutually incompatibly, at all.

    You are the one who claimed these ideas were abstract. If so then abstract ideas should be easy to change.

    1) you are now all Irish.
    2) ok.

    Except that never works. By the way it isn’t just a matter of living together. Unionists cannot exist in a United ireland except as separatists. To unite the country unionists have to stop being unionists. They can stay Protestant or primarily British but if they remain unionists they have to reject a United ireland because that’s what unionism means. Alternatively they have to abandon unionism. That’s not a halfway house. That’s why a United Ireland is folly.


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    #617
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Is it not similar to how many in the North see themselves as Irish while others British or Northern Irish?

    We can group all those descended from Jews and Arabs as Palestinians but they'll never see it that way. They're two split groups and I'm not holding out hope they'll come together.

    The population of the Jews is increasing faster then the Muslims so their position of power will only increase.

    At least in Ireland the republican population grew faster then the unionist giving us a stronger voice then we used to by default.

    Actually, if you include the occupied territories, Israeli's only have a slight numerical advantage, population wise, and again its not Muslims, its Palestinians, who can be Christian, Muslims, Atheist etc.


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    #618
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    Which is exactly what I've said in my previous two posts.
    • Palestinians are not an ethnic group, but are part of the wider Arab population.
    • That we are dealing with Islamic fanatics - and a wider population who votes these anti-democratic fanatics into power.




    Palestinians are indeed an ethnicity.



    Its a bit much for you to talk about "anti-democratic fanatics" when Israel governs the millions of Palestinians in Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank but denies them any vote in Israels governance.


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    #619
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,075 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    Palestine never existed as a sovereign state.

    It was land occupied by two peoples under the British mandate.

    And before that part of the Ottoman empire.
    All that land belongs to the Ottomans and their descendents then going by your logic


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    #620
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    Palestine never existed as a sovereign state.

    I........




    Neither did Greece, the USA, Australia.....


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    #621
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,075 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    If you really want to go back that far, let's not forget that the Jewish people first occupied this land and were expelled from it and the land then illegally occupied by Muslim invaders for centuries to come.

    But you want to start the clock at 1948-49, conveniently.

    Ah yes, so by that logic Constantinople should be returned to the Christians
    And all of the Americas to the various tribal religions too, since they came first?

    Or what about bronze age religions? Shur they predate us all, whoever follows those religions deserves ALL of the land :rolleyes:


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    #622
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,451 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    biddyearley wrote: »
    If you're going that way, you'll have to get rid of your computer.

    Don’t know if you heard but Intel is flagging behind AMD. Israel doesn’t hold the CPU crown. California does.


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    #623
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    In other words just continue to "boycott" what ever it was you were never going to buy in the first place even if produced by Palestinian farmers under an Israeli brand name.

    But by all means continue to purchase the expensive tech gadgets from the multi-nationals because... uhm... not buying an orange and a bowl of humus will take down the IDF faster than not buying the nice laptop and smartphone I have. Gotcha!

    Buy a modern Mac. I’ve done my bit.


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    #624
    batman75
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭batman75


    I would urge anyone interested in the Israel Palestinian conflict to put the name of Professor Norman Finkelstein into youtube. He clinically and systematically details how Israel is looking to establish a supreme Jewish state from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. As you can gather from his name he is a Jew but an American born one who is not afraid to call out Israel on its human rights abuses. The idea of a Jewish supremacist state has eerie similarities to Hitler's Nazi Aryan Germany.
    I think the latitude the international community has given Israel has emboldened it in its ambitions and arrogance. I cannot think of another country who would be allowed to deny a neighbouring state the basic infrastructure of a port and airport.


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    #625
    Lmkrnr
    Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭Lmkrnr


    Considering how cheap drone's are I am surprised Hamas have not used them to some effect. The Houtis caused considerable damage to SA oil refinery a few year's ago.


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    #626
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Posts earlier in the thread show the origin of the Palestinian people via DNA. Thats considerably more weight than cherry picked quotes by Memri, who are well known for their pro Israel advocy.
    wes wrote: »
    It amazing how people think that they can dispute DNA evidence, somehow.
    In this the "DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in modern Arabs and Jews" article? Can you point out the evidence?

    Fathi Hammad is presumed dead so we can't ask him anymore. I guess the Israelis didn't appreciate the "buy a knife, kill a Jew" speech.


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    #627
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,302 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    eskimohunt wrote: »
    If you really want to go back that far, let's not forget that the Jewish people first occupied this land and were expelled from it and the land then illegally occupied by Muslim invaders for centuries to come.

    But you want to start the clock at 1948-49, conveniently.

    Why don't we go all the back. The very first evidence of human activity in the area of Palestine/Israel is from humans migrating out of Africa around 100,000 years ago. Let's give the land back to them shall we?


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    #628
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In other words just continue to "boycott" what ever it was you were never going to buy in the first place even if produced by Palestinian farmers under an Israeli brand name.

    But by all means continue to purchase the expensive tech gadgets from the multi-nationals because... uhm... not buying an orange and a bowl of humus will take down the IDF faster than not buying the nice laptop and smartphone I have. Gotcha!

    The fact that it annoys Israel so much, shows that BDS is a threat to them in a major way. Also, the fact it annoys you doubly so :D.

    Again, boycotts are tactical and do no need to be perfect. Also, exaggerating that all tech is made in Israel is laughable.

    People need computers and phones etc, and it would be next to impossible for most people to figure out who exactly made what in a phone.

    People who wish to boycott, don't need to be perfect in a boycott. Boycott what you can reasonable do so and whats morally correct for themselves. It doesn't have to be everything.


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    #629
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    biko wrote: »
    In this the "DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in modern Arabs and Jews" article? Can you point out the evidence?

    Fathi Hammad is presumed dead so we can't ask him anymore. I guess the Israelis didn't appreciate the "buy a knife, kill a Jew" speech.


    "...Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years."


    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000509003653.htm


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    #630
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    So Jews and Palestinians both have rights to the land then.
    Let them fight over it.


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    #631
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Odhinn wrote: »
    "...Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years."


    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000509003653.htm

    Amazing how multiple DNS studies show people to be wrong, and yet they insist they are correct on the basis of nothing. The sheer level of arrogance to disagree with DNA is something else.


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