Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not for the first time you've got the compete wrong end of the stick there. Good man.

In 1880 there were only 25,000 Jews living in the area of modern day Palestine and Israel. The Zionist movement encouraged European Jews to move to Palestine. From the Arab point of view a load of white Europeans with no link to the area (other than a biblical claim) were demanding that they get out of there homes and land and hand them over to jews. Would you have handed it all over? Why do you think they should have?

What a bad and false history.

Aren't you aware of how they co-existed for many years? You are beginning to sound like the many pro-Brexit racists out there; "Oh, we cannot have foreign people around us, it's destroying our country".

Partition was rejected by the Arabs; that is a fact.

Mimon

eskimohunt wrote: »

What a bad and false history.

Aren't you aware of how they co-existed for many years? You are beginning to sound like the many pro-Brexit racists out there; "Oh, we cannot have foreign people around us, it's destroying our country".

Partition was rejected by the Arabs; that is a fact.

Fascist

namloc1980

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You're acting as though the Israeli strikes are indiscriminate. They're precision strikes on buildings being used by terrorists. The IDF is literally phoning the residents to tell them to get out with two hours notice in some cases and they're using "knock" missiles first designed to shake up the building but leave it intact so that people can get out before it's levelled. Israeli citizens get as little as 30 seconds warning about Palestinian rockets.
The Palestine rockets are completely indiscriminate. Hell, 400 of them misfired and fell down on their own people.

"Oh but Israel is protected by its Iron Dome defence system. Palestine has no Iron Dome."

The Iron Dome is 90% effective. 10% of the rockets land in Israel and the more rockets Hamas and Hezbollah fire, the bigger that 10% is in absolute terms. Israel has to strike back.

Oh and Palestine does have a missile defence system. It's called "Don't fire rockets at Israel."

So precise in fact that they've killed 87 civilians so far. Meanwhile Hamas have killed 6 civilians. Remind me which ones are the terrorists targeting civilians?

Mimon

eskimohunt wrote: »

Ad hominem is all you have? :rolleyes:

You are a Fascist trying to justify ethnic cleansing and the people thanking your posts need to look in the mirror themselves. Pure evil is what you are.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

So precise in fact that they've killed 87 civilians so far. Meanwhile Hamas have killed 6 civilians. Remind me which ones are the terrorists targeting civilians?

If Hamas had the military prowess and capability of Israel, there'd be no Jews in the area at all.

Zero. None. Holocaust Mark II.

As Hamas has wished all alone. Do you realize who you are supporting? Islamic fascists.

Read their constitution; it called for the worldwide elimination of the Jewish people.

Overheal

eskimohunt wrote: »

What a bad and false history.

Aren't you aware of how they co-existed for many years? You are beginning to sound like the many pro-Brexit racists out there; "Oh, we cannot have foreign people around us, it's destroying our country".

Partition was rejected by the Arabs; that is a fact.

Surely you are referring to the Palestinians? Or, what authoritative body speaks for "the Arabs?" The Saudi Crown? The Iranian Ayatollah? Elvis? Who was authorized to make any agreement on behalf of "the Arabs?" this being an alleged fact this should be an easy one for you to demonstrate.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

What a bad and false history.

Aren't you aware of how they co-existed for many years? You are beginning to sound like the many pro-Brexit racists out there; "Oh, we cannot have foreign people around us, it's destroying our country".

Partition was rejected by the Arabs; that is a fact.

Seriously dude, you're absolutely embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. You haven't a clue. Read a few books on the history of Palestine, Zionism and Israel and you might learn a thing or two. It's clear from your posts that you have little or no knowledge of this issue.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Surely you are referring to the Palestinians? Or, what authoritative body speaks for "the Arabs?" The Saudi Crown? The Iranian Ayatollah? Elvis? Who was authorized to make any agreement on behalf of "the Arabs?"

Palestinians are Arabs who associate themselves with a geographic region that they call Palestine.

Sean.3516

Sean.3516 wrote: »

No, the Biden Administration will be going back to the old Obama view of Israeli-Arab relations as a "cycle of violence" and "blame on both sides". Utter nonsense.

This started because the PA leader Mahmoud Abbas was afraid of losing Palestine's first election since 2006 so he cancelled it so he could drum up support among his people by killing some Jews.

netahanyu is also in an election cycle.

Fortunately Israel doesn't need the support of the senile geriatric in the White House to trounce these terrorists.

It certainly needs the support of the US to the tune of $4bn a year.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Seriously dude, you're absolutely embarrassing yourself with this nonsense. You haven't a clue. Read a few books on the history of Palestine, Zionism and Israel and you might learn a thing or two. It's clear from your posts that you have little or no knowledge of this issue.

More ad hominem.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

If Hamas had the military prowess and capability of Israel, there'd be no Jews in the area at all.

Zero. None. Holocaust Mark II.

As Hamas has wished all alone. Do you realize who you are supporting? Islamic fascists.

Read their constitution; it called for the worldwide elimination of the Jewish people.

You have to resort to a savage amount of whataboutery to justify your support for Israel. Classic sign that you have no real argument to make. It's comical really.

Overheal

eskimohunt wrote: »

If Hamas had the military prowess and capability of Israel, there'd be no Jews in the area at all.

Zero. None. Holocaust Mark II.

As Hamas has wished all alone. Do you realize who you are supporting? Islamic fascists.

Read their constitution; it called for the worldwide elimination of the Jewish people.

That's mere speculation, in the meanwhile we are witnessing actual ethnic cleansing, on this Earth, in this Timeline, on this astral plane, right before our eyes.

Overheal

eskimohunt wrote: »

Palestinians are Arabs who associate themselves with a geographic region that they call Palestine.

So they're Palestinians. Thank you for your definition.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

More ad hominem.

I'll take that as your agreement that you know very little about this issue. Cheers.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If Hamas had the military prowess and capability of Israel, there'd be no Jews in the area at all.

Zero. None. Holocaust Mark II.

If my aunt had balls she’d be my…. Well that’s ambiguous these days. But you get the idea.

As Hamas has wished all alone. Do you realize who you are supporting? Islamic fascists.

As opposed to Israeli and US ally Saudi Arabia which is truly an open and democratic society.

Read their constitution; it called for the worldwide elimination of the Jewish people.

Any source for that which isn’t from Memri?

Overheal

fvp4 wrote: »

If my aunt had balls she’d be my…. Well that’s ambiguous these days. But you get the idea.

I was going to say the same damn thing but then I forgot the line.

cheezums

israelis are jewish supremacists.

Sean.3516

Mimon wrote: »

Seriously deluded BS here. Straight from the fascist playbook - trying to dehumanise others in this case Palestinians by calling them all terrorists.Sick as fk.

Human beings can actually be terrorists.
In fact all terrorists are humans beings.

Why is pointing that out an exclusively fascist tactic?

Mimon wrote: »

Also trying to justify ethnic cleansing. Are you some sort of Sociopath?

Ethnic cleansing? My goodness. 20% of Israel’s population is Arab Muslim. Not a single Jew lives in Gaza or the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. If Jews accidentally drive into Palestinian areas, they can get pulled out of their cars.

Arabs sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, they serve in the military (even though they’re exempt from compulsory military service.) They sit in parliament. Hell, an Arab party was literally about to decide who the next Israeli Prime Minister would be during coalition negotiations before this whole thing blew up.

namloc1980

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Human beings can actually be terrorists.
In fact all terrorists are humans beings.

Why is pointing that out an exclusively fascist tactic?



Ethnic cleansing? My goodness. 20% of Israel’s population is Arab Muslim. Not a single Jew lives in Gaza or the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. If Jews accidentally drive into Palestinian areas, they can get pulled out of their cars.

Arabs sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, they serve in the military (even though they’re exempt from compulsory military service.) They sit in parliament. Hell, an Arab party was literally about to decide who the next Israeli Prime Minister would be during coalition negotiations before this whole thing blew up.

What about this from Israeli basic law? The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.

Or the eviction of Palestinians in favour of Jewish settlers, or the settlement of Palestinian lands on the West Bank by Jewish settlers? Any thoughts on that?

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Ethnic cleansing? My goodness. 20% of Israel’s population is Arab Muslim. Not a single Jew lives in Gaza or the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. If Jews accidentally drive into Palestinian areas, they can get pulled out of their cars.

Arabs sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, they serve in the military (even though they’re exempt from compulsory military service.) They sit in parliament. Hell, an Arab party was literally about to decide who the next Israeli Prime Minister would be during coalition negotiations before this whole thing blew up.

eth·nic cleans·ing
/ˈeTHnik klenziNG/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society.
Definitions from Oxford Languages

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements/israels-top-court-rules-for-removal-of-settler-homes-from-palestinian-land-idUSKBN25N2LI
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/palestinians-face-renewed-violence-in-jerusalem-for-protesting-evictions
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/13/live-tv-shows-israeli-mob-lynch-motorist-in-tel-aviv-suburb

Yes, Ethnic Cleansing.

Sean.3516

namloc1980 wrote: »

So precise in fact that they've killed 87 civilians so far. Meanwhile Hamas have killed 6 civilians. Remind me which ones are the terrorists targeting civilians?

I literally just explained how Israel has a missile defence system that intercepts 90% of rockets. The Palestinians don’t have a way to shoot down missiles. Ergo it stands to reason that the Israeli counterattack will probably kill more people than the original Palestinian rocket attack.

Why do you think it’s a point in favor of the Palestinians that their rockets kill fewer people? It’s not through lack of trying. They fire literally hundreds of them and they are fired with the intent to kill.

Overheal

"As President Biden considers his choice for Ambassador to Israel, I encourage him to choose someone who can represent our country in an even-handed way, and who can engage not only with Israel but with the Palestinians as well. The role of the United States should be to bring the peoples of the region together, not simply to support a right-wing Israeli government." - Sen. Bernie Sanders

namloc1980

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I literally just explained how Israel has a missile defence system that intercepts 90% of rockets. The Palestinians don’t have a way to shoot down missiles. Ergo it stands to reason that the Israeli counterattack will probably kill more people than the original Palestinian rocket attack.

Why do you think it’s a point in favor of the Palestinians that their rockets kill fewer people? It’s not through lack of trying. They fire literally hundreds of them and they are fired with the intent to kill.

Why do you think it is a point in favour of Israel that they are more successful at killing civilians? Hamas have limited capabilities, yet Israel is killing more of their civilians anyway and the world is just standing by, and we even have posters on here defending the killing of Palestinian civilians.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I literally just explained how Israel has a missile defence system that intercepts 90% of rockets. The Palestinians don’t have a way to shoot down missiles. Ergo it stands to reason that the Israeli counterattack will probably kill more people than the original Palestinian rocket attack.

Which results in Israel retaliating in a disproportionate manner. Knowing that they have advanced missiles and defenses Israel resultingly hands out more death and destruction than it receives, as a matter of policy. As someone said earlier, it would be akin to the British Army lining up and killing 50 Irish nationals for every British citizen killed. It's not proportional, it's not self-defense, it's thinly-veiled genocide.

irishguy1983

I am currently trying to read up on this conflict...I’m actually totally confused who is right or wrong - it depends on what article I read I just thought I would throw that out there...

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

If my aunt had balls she’d be my…. Well that’s ambiguous these days. But you get the idea.

Hamas Charter preamble:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

They just added this clause for no reason, I guess?

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

Surely you are referring to the Palestinians? Or, what authoritative body speaks for "the Arabs?" The Saudi Crown? The Iranian Ayatollah? Elvis? Who was authorized to make any agreement on behalf of "the Arabs?" this being an alleged fact this should be an easy one for you to demonstrate.

In 1947, the term “Palestinian” just meant someone who lived in Palestine and it was applied to both Jews and Arabs.

There was a Jewish community in Palestine and Arab community in Palestine and the UN offered both the chance to form sovereign states. As the other poster said, the Arabs rejected the deal.

Arabs in Palestine only started describing themselves as “Palestinian” in the 60s when Yasser Arafat started running their movement.

I prefer the term “Arab” to “Palestinian” because using “Palestinian” buys the whole premise that there was a long tradition of nationalism among Arabs in that region which is just sheer propaganda.

Of course you’d know all this if you’d studied any of the history whatsoever.

Fuascailteoir

Sean.3516 wrote: »

In 1947, the term “Palestinian” just meant someone who lived in Palestine and it was applied to both Jews and Arabs.

There was a Jewish community in Palestine and Arab community in Palestine and the UN offered both the chance to form sovereign states. As the other poster said, the Arabs rejected the deal.

Arabs in Palestine only started describing themselves as “Palestinian” in the 60s when Yasser Arafat started running their movement.

I prefer the term “Arab” to “Palestinian” because using “Palestinian” buys the whole premise that there was a long tradition of nationalism among Arabs in that region which is just sheer propaganda.

Of course you’d know all this if you’d studied any of the history whatsoever.

So the old ... 'you don't really exist' tactic

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

In 1947, the term “Palestinian” just meant someone who lived in Palestine and it was applied to both Jews and Arabs.

There was a Jewish community in Palestine and Arab community in Palestine and the UN offered both the chance to form sovereign states. As the other poster said, the Arabs rejected the deal.

Arabs in Palestine only started describing themselves as “Palestinian” in the 60s when Yasser Arafat started running their movement.

I prefer the term “Arab” to “Palestinian” because using “Palestinian” buys the whole premise that there was a long tradition of nationalism among Arabs in that region which is just sheer propaganda.

Of course you’d know all this if you’d studied any of the history whatsoever.

Oh, of course :rolleyes: but since according to your own explanation it is an outdated term it surely makes more sense to refer to them as the Palestinians. Especially when we are all of us, ostensibly, trying to communicate toward a two state solution.

It's anti-Semitism.

For some reason, many people - particularly young people - are obsessed with "Palestinians" (you'll note the constant dismissal, harassment, ad hominem attacks, group mentality, non-objectivity etc.). It's almost a form of unquestionable political religion.

It's almost a non-questionable religion in and of itself. You will find no criticism of Hamas, even though they are the political equivalent of ISIS and, indeed, support ISIS.

So, we have this weird cognitive dissonance going on. Condemnation of Islamic radicalism in Europe but, when the Israelis encounter exactly the same kind of radicalism and threats to their very existence, this is given the apologia of "it's Israel's fault".

There are also many other minorities and communities around the entire planet that people could care about - none of which get the same obsession as Palestinians.

And, for me at least, as someone who previously was a disciple to the "Palestinian cause", I realize now it is only a mask for anti-Semitism. If it were not Jews running Israel, but another variety of Muslim, for example, I'm absolutely certain the cause would not have gathered the same traction.

I could go on. But suffice to say, this is enough food for thought in the now.