Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Barry904

The Palestinians need to create a Guerilla army similar to the PIRA, the IRA to a lot of peoples surprise is actually known as one of the most effective and sophisticated guerilla armies of recent history despite being based in what was the most militarised zone on the planet at the time under constant surveillance with the greatest intelligence agencies in the world devoting most of their resources into defeating them.

The Palestinians seem to be barely able to land a kill on a soldier never mind get any chance of a pop at the top tier of the Israeli government/establishment, they need to sort their s*** out.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes, this caused a lot of controversy because everyone misunderstands what is meant by that line "The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel". It basically just means that the right to sovereignty and to form a state in a traditionally Jewish land is an inherently and uniquely a Jewish right. That's not to say that non-Jewish Israelis should be deprived of their rights as citizens. It simply means that for all Jews, (including non-Israeli Jews who can immigrate to Israel very easily) this is an unqualified right.

The law also acknowledges the "special status" of the Arab language and the freedom of religion and equal rights of non-Jews in Israel.

Netanyahu said of the law: "I want a state of one nation: the Jewish nation-state, which includes non-Jews with equal rights."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People#cite_note-38



The private court case over 4 houses in Jerusalem that's being dragged out for 50 years?
Basically the houses were originally occupied by Jews and then when Arabs took the area over, people squatted there and when the area reverted to Israeli control, the squatters refused to pay rent to the people who owned the building (and never relinquished ownership of it). Now the owners want to demolish it and build apartments. It's a private matter and it comes down to the fact that you can't squat in a building you don't own.

As regards settlements, I have no problem with people expanding settlements into areas where no nation state exists.

It's a complete contradiction to suggest non-jews have equal rights when they have no equal Right to Return, or even the right to security of their property and belongings, or where we are, as yourself said, establishing rights that are "inherently and uniquely a Jewish right."

namloc1980

wes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1392958258688708615?s=20

Remember Hamas offered a ceasefire. Israel is the aggressor and targets civilians deliberately with advanced weapons. Once again the people Gaza will be murdered with de facto support of most Western countries.

Hamas has no defensive capabilities at all and has very limited offensive capabilities. Meanwhile Israel has extremely powerful offensive and very powerful defensive capabilities. Even so they are meting out terrible disproportionate punishment on the people of Gaza.

wes

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hamas has no defensive capabilities at all and has very limited offensive capabilities. Meanwhile Israel has extremely powerful offensive and very powerful defensive capabilities. Even so they are meting out terrible disproportionate punishment on the people of Gaza.

Yeah, Israeli gov imo wanted this slaughter. They could have stopped aggression several times, but chose to violently murder Palestinians civilians, as they know they can get away with it, and in fact are being cheered on in many western govs.

batman75

According to the English Independent a ground invasion of Gaza is not far away. This is going to be carnage.

biddyearley

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes. Ismail does not want to be a martyr. That's for the military wing and foot soliders. Although your friend Bibi might send Ismail a thank you note in a bit if this latest round of fighting leads to an increase in his popularity. I'm sure the timing of all this is just a coincidence.

Bibi is no friend of mine. A corrupt criminal thug with blood on his hands.

Barry904

Barry904 wrote: »

The Palestinians need to create a Guerilla army similar to the PIRA, the IRA to a lot of peoples surprise is actually known as one of the most effective and sophisticated guerilla armies of recent history despite being based in what was the most militarised zone on the planet at the time under constant surveillance with the greatest intelligence agencies in the world devoting most of their resources into defeating them.

The Palestinians seem to be barely able to land a kill on a soldier never mind get any chance of a pop at the top tier of the Israeli government/establishment, they need to sort their s*** out.

PIRA/IRA great bunch of lads to emulate :rolleyes:

Mimon

Overheal wrote: »

More gaslighting.


I know more about Israel than the inner workings of my coffee maker too but that doesn't mean I have no valid interest in the Israeli-Palestine conflict. I don't know how one would begin to claim that before you can comment on X issue you need to be fluent in whatever other whataboutism the party who could not conjure together a cogent argument on the central topic thought to pull out of their hat.

Please stop engaging with him Overheal. You have owned him for pages now with hard facts and logic neither of which seems to be able to penetrate his strange right wing fascist mind.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

eth·nic cleans·ing
/ˈeTHnik klenziNG/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society.
Definitions from Oxford Languages

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements/israels-top-court-rules-for-removal-of-settler-homes-from-palestinian-land-idUSKBN25N2LI
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/palestinians-face-renewed-violence-in-jerusalem-for-protesting-evictions
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/13/live-tv-shows-israeli-mob-lynch-motorist-in-tel-aviv-suburb

Yes, Ethnic Cleansing.

Yes. I know what it means and none of those are examples of it.

Any differential treatment of Arabs in the Palestinian territories is based on the fact that they aren't Israelis. That doesn't mean it's always justified. It means it has nothing to do with race or religion.

Evidence: Arab muslim citizens in Israel face no systemic discrimination and occupy the highest levels in Israeli society.

The third example of the motorist being beaten, I don't know why you would include that as an example of systemic discrimination given that it was a fringe action by a fringe group and it was condemned by basically every major politician in Israel.

Barry904

[Deleted User] wrote: »

PIRA/IRA great bunch of lads to emulate :rolleyes:

In terms of a guerilla army they are exactly the kind of lads you would want to emulate.

Despite extensive bombing 1300 bombs on commercial targets in 1972 alone they managed to keep civilian casualties to a minimum 70% of their victims were security forces the rest were judges, politicians, loyalist paramilitaries and civilians etc.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes. I know what it means and none of those are examples of it.

Any differential treatment of Arabs in the Palestinian territories is based on the fact that they aren't Israelis. That doesn't mean it's always justified. It means it has nothing to do with race or religion.

Evidence: Arab muslim citizens in Israel face no systemic discrimination and occupy the highest levels in Israeli society.

The third example of the motorist being beaten, I don't know why you would include that as an example of systemic discrimination given that it was a fringe action by a fringe group and it was condemned by basically every major politician in Israel.

We will have to agree to disagree, as I can't fathom how you don't see the evictions as ethnic cleansing when its a textbook definition for it.

Arab muslim citizens in Israel face no systemic discrimination

Utterly absurd claim, us having established that Arab muslims do not enjoy the same rights as Jews under Israeli law, that they enjoy additional rights that are as one user put it, "inherently and uniquely a Jewish right."

namloc1980

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes, this caused a lot of controversy because everyone misunderstands what is meant by that line "The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel". It basically just means that the right to sovereignty and to form a state in a traditionally Jewish land is an inherently and uniquely a Jewish right. That's not to say that non-Jewish Israelis should be deprived of their rights as citizens. It simply means that for all Jews, (including non-Israeli Jews who can immigrate to Israel very easily) this is an unqualified right.

The law also acknowledges the "special status" of the Arab language and the freedom of religion and equal rights of non-Jews in Israel.

Netanyahu said of the law: "I want a state of one nation: the Jewish nation-state, which includes non-Jews with equal rights."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People#cite_note-38



The private court case over 4 houses in Jerusalem that's being dragged out for 50 years?
Basically the houses were originally occupied by Jews and then when Arabs took the area over, people squatted there and when the area reverted to Israeli control, the squatters refused to pay rent to the people who owned the building (and never relinquished ownership of it). Now the owners want to demolish it and build apartments. It's a private matter and it comes down to the fact that you can't squat in a building you don't own.

As regards settlements, I have no problem with people expanding settlements into areas where no nation state exists.

Arabic was the co-official language with Hebrew of Israel until 2017 when it was downgraded. Now Hebrew being the only official language and Arabic getting "special status". Not sure why you are trying to spin this as a positive.

West Bank is part the State of Palestine recognized by a majority of UN members. The settlements are illegal under international law and in violation of UN security council resolutions. Interesting that you have no problem with that. The settlements also make a two state solution, or any peaceful solution, almost impossible.

Barry904

Barry904 wrote: »

In terms of a guerilla army they are exactly the kind of lads you would want to emulate.

So you think the Omagh bombing was an act Hamas should emulate?

riffmongous

eskimohunt wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that for one second.

What I'm saying is that Leftists have an obsession with Jewry where, in other political cases - often those involving China and Russia, they don't know the history from Adam.

I wonder why.

We all know.

Absolute bull**** pal. Go look at any thread on the Rohyinga or the Uighurs here and you'll see it's almost all left wing people condemning it

RoryMac

wes wrote: »

Yeah, Israeli gov imo wanted this slaughter. They could have stopped aggression several times, but chose to violently murder Palestinians civilians, as they know they can get away with it, and in fact are being cheered on in many western govs.

Unfortunately it seems to be the case that both Netanyahu's gov and the Hamas gov want this aggression to help their political futures. Both sides rely on having the enemy nextdoor to keep them in power

ForestFire

RTE seem to be one of the first with this, but look like they are going in now....

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0513/1221304-israel-gaza/

Mimon

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes. I know what it means and none of those are examples of it.

Any differential treatment of Arabs in the Palestinian territories is based on the fact that they aren't Israelis. That doesn't mean it's always justified. It means it has nothing to do with race or religion.

Evidence: Arab muslim citizens in Israel face no systemic discrimination and occupy the highest levels in Israeli society.

The third example of the motorist being beaten, I don't know why you would include that as an example of systemic discrimination given that it was a fringe action by a fringe group and it was condemned by basically every major politician in Israel.

Where is this evidence? You have made this point, produce the evidence please.

Have a read of this from Amnesty international

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

" Israel continued to discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in areas of planning, budget allocation, policing and political participation. According to the Adalah-The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, Israel maintains over 65 laws that discriminate against Palestinians.

Local Palestinian councils in Israel went on strike to protest against discrimination in the distribution of the state budget for local councils. The vast majority of Palestinians in Israel, comprising over 20% of the total population, live in around 139 towns and villages. They received only 1.7% of the state budget for local councils."

Barry904

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you think the Omagh bombing was an act Hamas should emulate?

I don't know why you are bringing up a bombing by the real/New IRA when I was referencing the Provisonal IRA.

Cluedo Monopoly

That ambassador on Prime Time came across very badly. Robotic intent.

wes

RoryMac wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems to be the case that both Netanyahu's gov and the Hamas gov want this aggression to help their political futures. Both sides rely on having the enemy nextdoor to keep them in power

No fan of Hamas, but they did offer a ceasefire. Israeli gov rejected it:
Netanyahu: Israel rejected Hamas ceasefire offer

Barry904

Barry904 wrote: »

I don't know why you are bringing up a bombing by the real/New IRA when I was referencing the Provisonal IRA.

Cheeks of the same arse.

letowski

Horrific scenes

https://twitter.com/GazaNews_BRK/status/1392957329302294531

https://twitter.com/emanaleifa147/status/1392962335032156167

wes

Palestinians being attacked inside Israel:
https://twitter.com/ShahadehAbou/status/1392909714225250306?s=20

Nermal

batman75 wrote: »

Israel should be made go back to their 1948 borders.

Vae victis.

namloc1980

.

People being terrorized in their homes by the IDF in Gaza tonight. Unbelievable that people here support this.

wes

Netanyahu has blood on his hands, he needs to be sent to the ICC to put on trial for crimes against humanity:

https://twitter.com/saribashi/status/1392966057757904901?s=20

Mimon

Nermal wrote: »

Vae victis.

The world should have moved on since Roman times and the genocide that they inflicted and stupid sayings to justify it.

The Israelis are abusing their status as victors by ethnically cleansing their neighbours.

batman75

Nermal wrote: »

Vae victis.

Israel has abused, heinously, the latitude the world gave it when a new Jewish state was allowed to be created in Palestine.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Has the situation gotten to the point of Israel is the attacker yet..

Mimon

wes wrote: »

Netanyahu has blood on his hands, he needs to be sent to the ICC to put on trial for crimes against humanity:

https://twitter.com/saribashi/status/1392966057757904901?s=20

He really is an evil scumbag of the highest order. Mafia tactics to stay in power.