Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

wes

https://twitter.com/MajedAbusalama/status/1392954777722626052?s=20

We are witnessing genocide, and the evidence is being posted all across social media.

Israeli gov are in engaged in crimes against humanity and needs to be brought to justice.

BDS is more essential than ever.

Sean.3516

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why do you think it is a point in favour of Israel that they are more successful at killing civilians?

I never said anything of the kind.

And nobody in Israel regards it as a success when Palestinian civilians are killed. Contrasted with footage in recent days of Palestinian civilians, yes, civilians, shouting "Allahu akbar" as rockets are being fired towards Israeli civilians.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hamas have limited capabilities, yet Israel is killing more of their civilians anyway and the world is just standing by, and we even have posters on here defending the killing of Palestinian civilians.

Hell, nobody is defending the death of Palestinian civilians except to the extent to you can only do so much to mitigate civilian casualties in ANY armed conflict. And Israel does far more than it has any obligation to when they're literally phoning Palestinian civilians and using "knock" missiles to warn them to clear out of the way. They would rather give the enemy a chance to get away if it means preventing civilian deaths.

I completely disagree with you that the disparity in casualties is a reason that Israel should do nothing in response to these rockets and simply have their air raid sirens going around the clock and have their people huddled up in bunkers every night. And if the 10% of rockets that can't be intercepted kill some of their people well that's just the way it is. Because that's what's happening in Israel right now.
No country should stand for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumq8ktYOTI
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiB56_v1sfwAhWVunEKHacgD2cQFjAAegQIBBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fworldviews%2Fwp%2F2014%2F07%2F09%2Froof-knocking-the-israeli-mjilitarys-tactic-of-phoning-palestinians-it-is-about-to-bomb%2F&usg=AOvVaw1OTUspEmBq5pLDthPledfs

Let me ask an a simple honest question to the posters on here:

Do you believe Israel has any right to respond militarily to those who fire rockets at their civilians and if so what should that response be?

wes

Not just Gaza, but Sheikh Jarrah in dangers as well:

https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1392962973115854854?s=20

We are witnessing pure genocidal evil. No other words for it.

MeMen2_MoRi_

wes wrote: »

Netanyahu has blood on his hands, he needs to be sent to the ICC to put on trial for crimes against humanity:

https://twitter.com/saribashi/status/1392966057757904901?s=20

All it will take to turn the tide on this is troops on the ground and the lose of life..

threeball

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

That ambassador on Prime Time came across very badly. Robotic intent.

The Isrealis seem quite happy to visit on another people similar horrors that their own endured less than a century ago. They seem oblivious to the parallels between the way they were treated and how they now treat the Palestinians. The gaza strip is no more than a large concentration camp where the Isrealis dictate the living conditions, the borders and the medicines available. In ways, what they're doing is worse as they of all people should know better.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I never said anything of the kind.

And nobody in Israel regards it as a success when Palestinian civilians are killed. Contrasted with footage in recent days of Palestinian civilians, yes, civilians, shouting "Allahu akbar" as rockets are being fired towards Israeli civilians.


Hell, nobody is defending the death of Palestinian civilians except to the extent to you can only do so much to mitigate civilian casualties in ANY armed conflict. And Israel does far more than it has any obligation to when they're literally phoning Palestinian civilians and using "knock" missiles to warn them to clear out of the way. They would rather give the enemy a chance to get away if it means preventing civilian deaths.

I completely disagree with you that the disparity in casualties is a reason that Israel should do nothing in response to these rockets and simply have their air raid sirens going around the clock and have their people huddled up in bunkers every night. And if the 10% of rockets that can't be intercepted kill some of their people well that's just the way it is. Because that's what's happening in Israel right now.
No country should stand for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumq8ktYOTI
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiB56_v1sfwAhWVunEKHacgD2cQFjAAegQIBBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fworldviews%2Fwp%2F2014%2F07%2F09%2Froof-knocking-the-israeli-mjilitarys-tactic-of-phoning-palestinians-it-is-about-to-bomb%2F&usg=AOvVaw1OTUspEmBq5pLDthPledfs

Let me ask an a simple honest question to the posters on here:

Do you believe Israel has any right to respond militarily to those who fire rockets at their civilians and if so what should that response be?

They already turned down an offer of cease fire, so this is complete bunk.

MeMen2_MoRi_

wes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MajedAbusalama/status/1392954777722626052?s=20

We are witnessing genocide, and the evidence is being posted all across social media.

Israeli gov are in engaged in crimes against humanity and needs to be brought to justice.

BDS is more essential than ever.

But please remember the mother of the spokes person who was in a bomb proof bunker.

Tyrone212

Inadvertently saw an awful gruesome picture of 3 dead charred Palestinian children being held up in hospital when I searched "israel" on twitter about the ground invasion tonight. Almost puked. Absolutely disgusting.

IngazZagni

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

namloc1980

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I never said anything of the kind.

And nobody in Israel regards it as a success when Palestinian civilians are killed. Contrasted with footage in recent days of Palestinian civilians, yes, civilians, shouting "Allahu akbar" as rockets are being fired towards Israeli civilians.


Hell, nobody is defending the death of Palestinian civilians except to the extent to you can only do so much to mitigate civilian casualties in ANY armed conflict. And Israel does far more than it has any obligation to when they're literally phoning Palestinian civilians and using "knock" missiles to warn them to clear out of the way. They would rather give the enemy a chance to get away if it means preventing civilian deaths.

I completely disagree with you that the disparity in casualties is a reason that Israel should do nothing in response to these rockets and simply have their air raid sirens going around the clock and have their people huddled up in bunkers every night. And if the 10% of rockets that can't be intercepted kill some of their people well that's just the way it is. Because that's what's happening in Israel right now.
No country should stand for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumq8ktYOTI
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiB56_v1sfwAhWVunEKHacgD2cQFjAAegQIBBAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fworldviews%2Fwp%2F2014%2F07%2F09%2Froof-knocking-the-israeli-mjilitarys-tactic-of-phoning-palestinians-it-is-about-to-bomb%2F&usg=AOvVaw1OTUspEmBq5pLDthPledfs

Let me ask an a simple honest question to the posters on here:

Do you believe Israel has any right to respond militarily to those who fire rockets at their civilians and if so what should that response be?

Not sure who you are arguing with but I never said that. A classic tactic of the Israeli apologists here tonight is to disagree vehemently with something nobody even said. Pure gaslighting and very tiresome at this stage.

Mimon

Hopefully Simon Coveney will come out and condemn these Israeli actions alone, never mind the both sides are at it nonsense.

There is zero proportionality here and in any case what sparked this was the latest land grab by Israel. It is state terrorism and ethnic cleansing and needs to be called as such.

namloc1980

The street violence between arab and Jewish Israelis is a major shift from previous escalations. Serious risk of things getting very out of hand. Saw a video earlier of some Jewish Israelis burning down an arab israeli shop, WTF is that supposed to achieve?

Mimon

IngazZagni wrote: »

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

Supporting Israel is like supporting the Black and Tans 100 years ago or supporting what the Parachute regiment did in Ballymurphy and in Derry. How any Irish person supports them is a complete mystery.

threeball

IngazZagni wrote: »

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

Yes but like everything you have to take this back to the instigator. Cause and effect. The Isrealis have been provocative for decades now. If every day you went to work were shouldered, jostled, proded and demeaned by a colleague for years only for you to one day punch him in the mouth, would that mean you were equally responsible? On a macro scale that's whats happening here. It happened in NI too.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

Which results in Israel retaliating in a disproportionate manner. Knowing that they have advanced missiles and defenses Israel resultingly hands out more death and destruction than it receives,

Where did we get this idea that war should be a "a series of proportionate responses"?

The goal of every war is to neutralise the enemy. Neutralise meaning kill, wound or capture.
And Israel's enemy is the people firing those rockets.

The idea that Hamas and the PA should just get away with firing those rockets because they don't have an Iron Dome system to protect themselves from the return fire is asinine beyond belief.

There has never been a single war in which civilian casualties have been 100% avoided and the fact that one side is a lot better at protecting itself than the other is not an excuse for the other side to continue targeting those civilians without fear of any response.

Overheal wrote: »

As a matter of policy

It's not a matter of policy. Now your just embellishing your argument with hyperbole.

Overheal wrote: »

As someone said earlier, it would be akin to the British Army lining up and killing 50 Irish nationals for every British citizen killed. It's not proportional, it's not self-defense, it's thinly-veiled genocide.

This is an insane analogy. Your analogy is comparing unintentional civilian casualties with intentional war crimes.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

That ambassador on Prime Time came across very badly. Robotic intent.

He's well trained on what to say when these situations arise.

I must say the lack of strong talk towards Israel from the western world is staggering. I think we are one of the strongest voices however as we all know, Israel has absolutely zero respect for Irelands opinion.

The EU needs to step up and start imposing sanctions.

Mimon

IngazZagni wrote: »

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

Do you realise all this was instigated by Netanyahu as a means of ensuring he stays in power? The land grab in Jerusalem is a nice little bonus.

IngazZagni

threeball wrote: »

Yes but like everything you have to take this back to the instigator. Cause and effect. The Isrealis have been provocative for decades now. If every day you went to work were shouldered, jostled, proded and demeaned by a colleague for years only for you to one day punch him in the mouth, would that mean you were equally responsible? On a macro scale that's whats happening here. It happened in NI too.

I completely disagree. The IRA were selective with who they targeted for the vast majority of attacks. Hamas fire rockets almost aimlessly towards Israel. Many of them even crash in Palestinian territory killing their own people.

Overheal

IngazZagni wrote: »

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

Nobody supports that but nobody is surprised by it also, when the IDF and Netenyahus government launched a sweeping campaign of violent ethnic cleansing this month after Bibi failed to form a new government. They were the aggressors that sparked this most recent conflict.

Sean.3516

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

So the old ... 'you don't really exist' tactic

There is not, nor has there ever been a nation state called Palestine.

threeball

Northernlily wrote: »

He's well trained on what to say when these situations arise.

I must say the lack of strong talk towards Israel from the western world is staggering. I think we are one of the strongest voices however as we all know, Israel has absolutely zero respect for Irelands opinion.

The EU needs to step up and start imposing sanctions.

The Isreali ambassador to Britain is a poisonous bit of work too. They remind me of the Nazis.

The Hound Gone Wild

NYT reporting that Israeli troops have mounted a ground invasion of Gaza.

Our response in the face of a humanitarian catastrophe has been shameful. The Israeli ambassador should be expelled. Email your TDs.

threeball

IngazZagni wrote: »

I completely disagree. The IRA were selective with who they targeted for the vast majority of attacks. Hamas fire rockets almost aimlessly towards Israel. Many of them even crash in Palestinian territory killing their own people.

The IRA weren't imprisoned in the 6 counties. They could nip down the road to civilisation whenever the mood took them. As I said earlier, the Palestinians are in a concentration camp where their entire existence is determined by the Isrealis. You can't draw parrallels between the level of imposition the catholics in the North suffer vs what the Palestinians are. Its night and day.

MeMen2_MoRi_

IngazZagni wrote: »

Over 1,000 rockets fired by Hamas into Israel. Over 90% of them intercepted by the iron dome defence system. If this system didn't exist there would have been a full scale war break out by now.

Truly terrible what's happening. People are very passionate about who they support but both sides have blood on their hands.

Yet a democratic democracy will never bow to any other opinion on the situation.

The idea of trying to understand a terrorist org Vs a democracy, as an Irish person I see no difference. The IRA/UK they are both terror orgs.. the UK infiltrated both the IRA and the unionist terror orgs to a high degree and the UK state let mass murder evolve in the hope it would benefit them in the long term.

The idea of a legal state lowering themselves to the lows of terrorists and somehow being held above them is reprehensible beyond belief.

Tyrone212

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Inadvertently saw an awful gruesome picture of 3 dead charred Palestinian children being held up in hospital when I searched "israel" on twitter about the ground invasion tonight. Almost puked. Absolutely disgusting.

Seen that myself just searching for the latest developments. Don't think I'll get much sleep tonight..

No words.

I

wes

Northernlily wrote: »

The EU needs to step up and start imposing sanctions.

EU will probably increase economic cooperation instead.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

Oh, of course :rolleyes: but since according to your own explanation it is an outdated term it surely makes more sense to refer to them as the Palestinians. Especially when we are all of us, ostensibly, trying to communicate toward a two state solution.

But the use of the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian" weren't motivated by a desire to achieve a two-state solution.

"Palestine" still refers to the entire region and the Arabs who use it mean it that way. They want to wipe Israel off the map and implement a "one state solution".

Hence one of their slogans: "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."

Guess what's between the river and the sea?
A little country called Israel.

batman75

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Where did we get this idea that war should be a "a series of proportionate responses"?

The goal of every war is to neutralise the enemy. Neutralise meaning kill, wound or capture.
And Israel's enemy is the people firing those rockets.

The idea that Hamas and the PA should just get away with firing those rockets because they don't have an Iron Dome system to protect themselves from the return fire is asinine beyond belief.


Israel is an illegal occupier of Palestinian land well beyond the agreed 1948 borders. Israel in this case IS THE ENEMY. Israel is trying to do to the Palestinians, albeit in more subtle ways, what the Nazi's did to Jews. Namely ethnic cleanse from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. The spark for this latest bout of conflict was the illegal moving of Palestinians from their homeland in the West Bank.
Palestinians are the oppressed and Israel is the oppressor. Militarily Hamas can't lay a glove on Israel in comparison to their military strengths.
Israel has now illegally entered another state to massacre its citizens.

Give up defending the indefensible. To be honest this thread should be retitled Israel's Palestinian Genocide.

Mimon

Northernlily wrote: »

Seen that myself just searching for the latest developments. Don't think I'll get much sleep tonight..

No words.

I

Can't bring myself to look or I definitely wouldn't sleep:(

MeMen2_MoRi_

Sean.3516 wrote: »

But the use of the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian" weren't motivated by a desire to achieve a two-state solution.

"Palestine" still refers to the entire region and the Arabs who use it mean it that way. They want to wipe Israel off the map and implement a "one state solution".

Hence one of their slogans: "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."

Guess what's between the river and the sea?
A little country called Israel.

By the river and the sea Israel will be free.. it can be turned on its head easily.. And it is being done.