Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Delta2113

No Israeli troops inside Gaza reference Safwat Al Kahlout - Al Jazeera.

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

PIRA/IRA great bunch of lads to emulate :rolleyes:

He's just one of several posters on here calling for reprisals and terror attacks to be inflicted on the Israeli people. Others have suggested sending them all back to eastern Europe, ignoring the thousands of beta Israeli, Sephardic and mizrahi Jews who have no link to eastern Europe and many of whom are descended from Jews expelled from their Arab Muslim majority lands.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You keep trotting out that one line from the "Nation State" law as evidence of the supposedly brutal discrimination against the Arabs in Israel.

Yet in spite of this brutal discrimination, Arabs are sitting on Israel's supreme court, they're sitting in parliament where they wield sizeable influence, and they're volunteering for the military in large numbers...

Again the purpose of that law is to affirm that Israel is a Jewish State founded for the protection and benefit of Jews. Only Jews had the right to found Israel according to the law.

Now you can make of that will. You might think that claim is unfounded but the law does not take any rights away from Arabs who live in Israel.

And yet a Jewish justice sits More Equal than a justice of any other religious affiliation, endowed with more rights.

I see now you have suddenly shifted the goalposts from "discrimination" to "brutal discrimination"

And yet, it is brutal discrimination all the same:

bru·tal
/ˈbro͞odl/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
savagely violent.
"a brutal murder"

punishingly hard or uncomfortable.
"the brutal winter wind"
direct and lacking any attempt to disguise unpleasantness.
"the brutal honesty of his observations"

Mirriam-Webster is also pretty applicable:

brutal adjective
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bru·​tal | \ ˈbrü-tᵊl \
Definition of brutal
1: suitable to one who lacks intelligence, sensitivity, or compassion : befitting a brute: such as
a: CRUEL, COLD-BLOODED
a brutal attack
b: HARSH, SEVERE
brutal weather
c: unpleasantly accurate and incisive
the brutal truth
d: very bad or unpleasant
a brutal mistake
e: grossly ruthless or unfeeling
a brutal slander
2archaic : typical of beasts : ANIMAL
thee, Serpent … to me so friendly grown above the rest of brutal kind
— John Milton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8

Delta2113

Witcher wrote: »

Literally says 'in the Gaza Strip' lol

Direct from the IDF but no...you have the correct intel..christ above.

Article now in the times of Israel proving I'm correct so yes you could say I have the correct intel.

Housefree

Don't forget that Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up letting them debate you around in circles. We can proudly say that Ireland is one of the most pro Palestinian countries in the world

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Witcher

Delta2113 wrote: »

Article now in the times of Israel proving I'm correct so yes you could say I have the correct intel.

From the Times of Israel...

When asked to clarify the matter, if there had been a ground invasion, the IDF’s English-language spokesperson Jonathan Conricus responded: “Yes. As it’s written in the statement. Indeed, ground forces are attacking in Gaza. That is that they are in the Strip.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-may-13-2021/

wotzgoingon

Housefree wrote: »

We can proudly say that Ireland is one of the most pro Palestinian countries in the world

I wish our government were.

nocoverart

Jaysus, Biden looks way over his head already. First hurdle to jump and he and his colleagues don’t know if they should jump, go through or turn backwards.

ypres5

Housefree wrote: »

Don't forget that Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up letting them debate you around in circles. We can proudly say that Ireland is one of the most pro Palestinian countries in the world

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Thank you for being spokesperson for the entire Irish population Housefree what a burden you bear. Also are you really going to trust anything published by a site called electronic intifada?

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

Whom I was referring to?

No you weren't.
You said that non-Jews had no right and no right of return and property and belongings etc. This can't have been a reference to Israeli non-Jews. People usually talk about right of return with reference to Arabs and the decendents of Arabs who were displaced as a result of the 1948 Israeli-Arab War. Those Arabs reside in Gaza or the West Bank. Not Israel.

Overheal wrote: »

And yet that is, as you say, a singular example, giving Israeli-Jews a unique right not given to non-Jewish Israelis.

Arabs who want to immigrate to Israel can do it. They do it all the time. They just can't expect to live in the exact same place their parents or grandparents lived when they left in 1948.
Plus the Right of Return for Palestinians usually just doesn't mean Arabs returning to where they left pre-1948.
It's usually accompanied by a demand that those territories be handed over to the Palestinian Authority. Something Israel has no obligation to do.

Overheal wrote: »

A single discriminating right in the system of law is still an act of systemic discrimination. Surely if I dove into Israeli statute and court jurisprudence, more examples would be enumerable.

What's your point with this? You have still failed to tell me how Arab citizens of Israel are actually mistreated by the state.
I've given you examples of how they're not being held back by those laws at all. How they occupy the highest echelons in Israeli life.

You keep pointing to the conditions of Arabs OUTSIDE of Israel. Israel has no responsibility for those people. Those areas are basically controlled by the Palestinian Authority.

Overheal

ypres5 wrote: »

He's just one of several posters on here calling for reprisals and terror attacks to be inflicted on the Israeli people. Others have suggested sending them all back to eastern Europe, ignoring the thousands of beta Israeli, Sephardic and mizrahi Jews who have no link to eastern Europe and many of whom are descended from Jews expelled from their Arab Muslim majority lands.

I would approach incendiary comments by new accounts with an appropriate sense of skepticism. And, Israel does operate troll farms.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Not to speculate on the identity of any new user etc. but cautioning people against taking anonymous posts as anecdotal evidence of anything. In the US we've seen on multiple occasions where reported hate crimes have wound up being false-flags created by the alleged victims. I somehow doubt Israel does not campaign on social media by also propagating antisemitic comments online, to use as convenient strawmen for Israel's obsession with accusing everyone of antisemitism for having disagreements with their ethnic cleansing practices.

wotzgoingon

ypres5 wrote: »

Thank you for being spokesperson for the entire Irish population Housefree what a burden you bear. Also are you really going to trust anything published by a site called electronic intifada?

I don't care what website it's on I honestly believe it's true.

I could honestly say 1 million percent that they do that.

SafeSurfer

nocoverart wrote: »

Jaysus, Biden looks way over his head already. First hurdle to jump and he and his colleagues don’t know if they should jump, go through or turn backwards.

Biden had got off to a good start domestically with his handling of the vaccination programme and getting stimulus packages approved.
His first international incident and his response is one of weakness and bewilderment. Unfortunately for all of us, this response will only serve to embolden tyrants everywhere from Russia to North Korea not to mention China.
Simply no leadership. A further blow to American prestige.

Sean.3516

namloc1980 wrote: »

Arabic was the co-official language with Hebrew of Israel until 2017 when it was downgraded. Now Hebrew being the only official language and Arabic getting "special status". Not sure why you are trying to spin this as a positive.

Have people been banned from speaking Arabic?

Please can ANYBODY give me an example of how a single Arab citizen of Israel suffered in a real way as a result of that law?

namloc1980 wrote: »

West Bank is part the State of Palestine recognized by a majority of UN members. The settlements are illegal under international law and in violation of UN security council resolutions. Interesting that you have no problem with that. The settlements also make a two state solution, or any peaceful solution, almost impossible.

The UN is a joke of an organisation run by despicable people.
International law is a farce.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You keep pointing to the conditions of Arabs OUTSIDE of Israel. Israel has no responsibility for those people. Those areas are basically controlled by the Palestinian Authority.

Then how come it is "basically controlled" by the IDF, and not the PLO? The IDF are there, allowing these people to act violently with impunity.

Delta2113

I hope you read it all Witcher and understand it's not a ground invasion so far.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

They already turned down an offer of cease fire, so this is complete bunk.

Evidence?

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Have people been banned from speaking Arabic?

Please can ANYBODY give me an example of how a single Arab citizen of Israel suffered in a real way as a result of that law?

Constant appeal to your own personal incredulity.

The UN is a joke of an organisation run by despicable people.
International law is a farce.

So Israel does not recognize the United Nations or international law?

Housefree

It's David vs Goliath

First they took his land, then they took his legs, today they took his life

Picture is from the Great March of Return. A sniper killed him shortly after

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Evidence?

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/ryHhosK00u

Sean.3516

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not sure who you are arguing with but I never said that. A classic tactic of the Israeli apologists here tonight is to disagree vehemently with something nobody even said. Pure gaslighting and very tiresome at this stage.

Then answer my question.

Do you believe that Israel has the right to respond militarily to these rocket attacks and if so, what should that response entail?

Housefree

Israel is a regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Then answer my question.

Do you believe that Israel has the right to respond militarily to these rocket attacks and if so, what should that response entail?

Proportionality for a start.

You argue it doesn't have to be proportional, since 'its an act of war,' yet Israel maintains that this is an act of self-defense.

J Mysterio

Overheal wrote: »

Proportionality for a start.

You argue it doesn't have to be proportional, since 'its an act of war,' yet Israel maintains that this is an act of self-defense.

Well, they did untill the IDF tweeted that they are in fact 'attacking Gaza'.

batman75

I go to bed dreading the news that I will wake up to regarding Gaza. I truly despair that we live in a world where a country can commit massacres, and ethnic cleansing while enjoying the unequivocal support of the most powerful country on earth. Shameful.

wotzgoingon

batman75 wrote: »

I go to bed dreading the news that I will wake up to regarding Gaza. I truly despair that we live in a world where a country can commit massacres, and ethnic cleansing while enjoying the unequivocal support of the most powerful country on earth. Shameful.

And gives them billions every year that they spend back on more advanced military hardware.

Sean.3516

batman75 wrote: »

Israel is an illegal occupier of Palestinian land well beyond the agreed 1948 borders.

The 1948 borders are irrelevant today. They could have worked at the time but were made unworkable for two reasons:

1.) The Arabs never established a state within the borders they were given.
2.) The Arabs with the help of surrounding countries launched an all out war violating Israel's borders.

There was absolutely no way Israel could exist in a secure way in the 1948 borders after the Israeli-Arab War.

batman75 wrote: »

Israel in this case IS THE ENEMY. Israel is trying to do to the Palestinians, albeit in more subtle ways, what the Nazi's did to Jews. Namely ethnic cleanse from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River.

Okay, so why doesn't Israel just exterminate all of the Arabs living within it's current borders?
What's more why don't they launch an all out invasion of Gaza and the West Bank and annex the whole area and eliminate every Arab? They certainly have the power to do so. Why don't they?

batman75 wrote: »

The spark for this latest bout of conflict was the illegal moving of Palestinians from their homeland in the West Bank.

No. It was Mahmoud Abbas flexing to avoid losing an election to Hamas. The issue over 4 houses in East Jerusalem was a private legal dispute that nobody really cares about.

batman75 wrote: »

Palestinians are the oppressed and Israel is the oppressor. Militarily Hamas can't lay a glove on Israel in comparison to their military strengths.

Do you oppose the Palestinians firing rockets at Israeli civilian areas?

y0ssar1an22

so i dont really know a whole lot about this conflict only thats its being going on years, and pub talk!

is it true the british empire carved out an area and decided that that was israel? could it have been in africa initially where they decided to carve out a place?

Sean.3516

KeepItLight wrote: »

Its only a war crime when others do it. When Israel do it, as they have done for past half-century, it's unintentional civilian casualties.

Absolutely disgusting and evil.

If you have evidence that it's intentional, please share it.

In the meantime, I'm happy to weigh up the thousands of phone calls the IDF places to Palestinian civilians as evidence that they're doing their best to avoid casualties.

Housefree

Just a reminder that

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution.

Israeli Human Rights organization declared it Apartheid
'A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid'
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group
https://www.ipsc.ie/

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign
https://bdsmovement.net/

Israel employs an army of online trolls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUTNOvDYC0