Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Real Donald Trump

Israel are a disgrace!

Overheal

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1393014361199943680?s=20

Sounds like IDF could be mincing words, having pushed in earlier in the night before withdrawing, or are simply lying under the cover of night.

Overheal

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nbpa2b/abby_martin_interviews_israeli_civilians_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Israeli civilians on the street express support the ethnic cleansing in the west bank, while some others express support for carpet bombing them, that they need to kill Arabs

2 women struggle with finding the word for "kick out the Arabs" in the clip.

That word is ethnic cleansing.

A self-admitted "little bit fascist" tourist presumably Israeli in the clip, suggests leveling Gaza as the "only solution" https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nbdr0q/gaza_war_tourism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

This incident you linked to has nothing to do with the other, this incident with the white sedan happened "On a busy street outside Jerusalem's walled Old City"

al-Aqsa mosque is inside the Old City.

Why would the IDF need to spray the crowd with rubber bullets and tear gas at al-Aqsa, inside the Old City, for an isolated incident outside the Old City?

All this evidence of yours says about al-Aqsa is this:

"The incident took place as hundreds of Palestinians clashed with Israeli police outside al-Aqsa mosque in the Old City in violence that coincided with Jerusalem Day, when Israel celebrates its capture of East Jerusalem in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war."

There is no mention of stone throwing at al-Aqsa.

Please try again?

@Sean.3516, the BBC reports that Israeli Police state they believed al-Aqsa was a 'military stronghold'

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nbckvy/to_anyone_wondering_what_is_happening_in_palestine/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 (4:50)

Yet the Israeli govt can't point to any evidence that's actually the case? So, they went in with riot gear, tear gas, flashbangs and rubber bullets to break up prayers at al-Aqsa based purely on paranoia?

I can see why they're upset, in that case: imagine if Saudi police violently assaulted a peaceful gathering of Christians or Jews at Mecca based on hearsay and rumor. And al-Asqa is the religion's third holiest site (Kaaba at Mecca being the first). It sounds like that if Israel busted up a peaceable religious gathering without sufficient probable cause, that they've obviously IMHO committed a crime against humanity as it were. I don't know of a more apt way to put it?

Enter name here

Overheal wrote: »

@Sean.3516, the BBC reports that Israeli Police state they believed al-Aqsa was a 'military stronghold'

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nbckvy/to_anyone_wondering_what_is_happening_in_palestine/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 (4:50)

Yet the Israeli govt can't point to any evidence that's actually the case? So, they went in with riot gear, tear gas, flashbangs and rubber bullets to break up prayers at al-Aqsa based purely on paranoia?

I can see why they're upset, in that case: imagine if Saudi police violently assaulted a peaceful gathering of Christians or Jews at Mecca based on hearsay and rumor. And al-Asqa is the religion's third holiest site (Kaaba at Mecca being the first). It sounds like that if Israel busted up a peaceable religious gathering without sufficient probable cause, that they've obviously IMHO committed a crime against humanity as it were. I don't know of a more apt way to put it?

Wow and just wow, firstly if for one minute if you think Saudi's or any muslim would tolerate any form of christian gathering in those areas you are sadly misled.

Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for work or tourism, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Saudi Arabia accepts the private practice of religions other than Islam. Bringing a Bible and other types of religious texts are allowed into the country as long as it is for personal use.

Overheal

Enter name here wrote: »

Wow and just wow, firstly if for one minute if you think Saudi's or any muslim would tolerate any form of christian gathering in those areas you are sadly misled.

Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for work or tourism, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Saudi Arabia accepts the private practice of religions other than Islam. Bringing a Bible and other types of religious texts are allowed into the country as long as it is for personal use.

My point being, if an Arab State used its police force to attack a peaceable gathering of Christians at their third holiest site, or gathering of Jews at the third holiest site in their religion, I don't think there would be much hesitation to label that a crime against humanity.

coinop

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nbpa2b/abby_martin_interviews_israeli_civilians_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Did you really just post an edited montage of street interviews as an argument? Why not post the infamous interview of the League of Ireland fan on O'Connell St and claim that's representative of the average Irish soccer supporter.

Also it's bad internet etiquette to post links from R*ddit. You know what they say - you have to go back.

Marcos

And absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Bibi failed to form a government after the last elections stalemate, so opposition leader Yair Lapid was given the mandate to form a government instead. And the only thing keeping Bibi from facing trial for corruption is the fact that he is de facto prime minister. Conincidental, that all this bubbles over right now. :rolleyes:

Snooker Loopy

Netanyahu the Holocaust denier has no problem inflicting mass death on Gaza for his personal political gain. Palestinians are sub-humans as far as he's concerned.

moceri

coinop wrote: »

Did you really just post an edited montage of street interviews as an argument? Why not post the infamous interview of the League of Ireland fan on O'Connell St and claim that's representative of the average Irish soccer supporter.

Also it's bad internet etiquette to post links from R*ddit. You know what they say - you have to go back.

This is also available on Youtube
https://youtu.be/lFoxL3sOAio

TheCitizen

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210514/963a728d95adac8f56a225a6d19663e0.jpg

ypres5

Enter name here wrote: »

Wow and just wow, firstly if for one minute if you think Saudi's or any muslim would tolerate any form of christian gathering in those areas you are sadly misled.

Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for work or tourism, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Saudi Arabia accepts the private practice of religions other than Islam. Bringing a Bible and other types of religious texts are allowed into the country as long as it is for personal use.

Non Muslims aren't even allowed get anywhere near Mecca, to do so is to commit a crime and the Saudis aren't known for their lax criminal justice system. Just shows how much all the ones spouting the most actually know about the Middle east behind all the attempts to dumb down a complex conflict to the black and white morality of a power rangers episode

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

Non Muslims aren't even allowed get anywhere near Mecca, to do so is to commit a crime and the Saudis aren't known for their lax criminal justice system. Just shows how much all the ones spouting the most actually know about the Middle east behind all the attempts to dumb down a complex conflict to the black and white morality of a power rangers episode

Who’s defending Saudi Arabia? Well you might if we were talking Yemen.

Saudis would be allies of Israel and Israel these days. Total deflection anyway.

ypres5

Overheal wrote: »

My point being, if an Arab State used its police force to attack a peaceable gathering of Christians at their third holiest site, or gathering of Jews at the third holiest site in their religion, I don't think there would be much hesitation to label that a crime against humanity.

Thank God there's absolutely no persecution of non Muslims in the Arab world then...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report&ved=2ahUKEwjU7Kfv1cjwAhXWTBUIHV4ZChEQFjAKegQIHhAC&usg=AOvVaw31VfDwSHusFs9Tv_GCVV5R&ampcf=1

Marcos

Marcos wrote: »

nd absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Bibi failed to form a government after the last elections stalemate, so opposition leader Yair Lapid was given the mandate to form a government instead. And the only thing keeping Bibi from facing trial for corruption is the fact that he is de facto prime minister. Conincidental, that all this bubbles over right now. :rolleyes:

I’m pretty certain that’s it. The origins are murky but it’s fairly common for likud to stir the pot somewhere, cause a hamas reaction, and then mow the lawn.

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who’s defending Saudi Arabia? Well you might if we were talking Yemen.

Saudis would be allies of Israel and Israel these days. Total deflection anyway.

Someone said there'd be uproar if christians and Jews in mecca were assaulted by Muslims and I said that'd never happen because if a non Muslim gets within an asses roar of mecca they're locked up. But so long as it's not Jews doing the locking up it's alright

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

Thank God there's absolutely no persecution of non Muslims in the Arab world then...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report&ved=2ahUKEwjU7Kfv1cjwAhXWTBUIHV4ZChEQFjAKegQIHhAC&usg=AOvVaw31VfDwSHusFs9Tv_GCVV5R&ampcf=1

Deflection.

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

Someone said there'd be uproar if christians and Jews in mecca were assaulted by Muslims and I said that'd never happen because if a non Muslim gets within an asses roar of mecca they're locked up. But so long as it's not Jews doing the locking up it's alright

It occurs to me that you want no criticism at all of Israel. Because Jews.

I’ll give you one thing though, American ally Saudi Arabia is worse than Israel. One of the worst countries in the world, and it’s crimes are under reported, particularly the genocidal attacks and deliberate starvation of Yemeni children. That isn’t a reason not to report Israel (whose crimes are never reported anyway except in total war situations).

namloc1980

ypres5 wrote: »

Someone said there'd be uproar if christians and Jews in mecca were assaulted by Muslims and I said that'd never happen because if a non Muslim gets within an asses roar of mecca they're locked up. But so long as it's not Jews doing the locking up it's alright

If you have to invoke Saudi Arabia as some sort of defence of what Israel is doing then you've really lost the plot. Another poster last night was shouting about China being much worse. By setting the bar that low the Israeli apologists are actually saying: "yes Israel is almost as bad as China and Saudi Arabia for minority persecution". Not a great look.

ypres5

namloc1980 wrote: »

If you have to invoke Saudi Arabia as some sort of defence of what Israel is doing then you've really lost the plot. Another poster last night was shouting about China being much worse. By setting the bar that low the Israeli apologists are actually saying: "yes Israel is almost as bad as China and Saudi Arabia for minority persecution". Not a great look.

I'm not the one who brought up Saudi Arabia, go back and read the post I was responding to before getting up on the soapbox

namloc1980

ypres5 wrote: »

I'm not the one who brought up Saudi Arabia, go back and read the post I was responding to before getting up on the soapbox

You went on some rant about Saudi Arabia "if a non Muslim gets within an asses roar of mecca they're locked up. But so long as it's not Jews doing the locking up it's alright". And added the last piece as some sort of fantastical scenario that everyone thinks persecution is grand except when it comes to Israel. Of course nobody said that but you ran with it anyway. :pac:

Scoundrel

Lmkrnr wrote: »

Corbyn agrees RE UK.

Indeed all 4 Labour leadership candidates after Corbyn had to publicly declare themselves Zionists lest they be accused of anti semitism the hideous zionist Israel lobby using the holocaust to its advantage again.

We don't have to take sides. It's counterproductive anyway. It seems almost inhuman not to scream silently into the Internet about the obscene things happening in the region, but only cool heads and calm words will resolve this. Every conflict, no matter how long or atrocious, ends around a table. The focus should be on getting there.

IMO, this conflict will not be resolved until the US becomes a more honest player in the region, or starts paying more attention to its own issues. Might tends to be 'right' and US influence in the region (and UK and French influence too, lest we forget their centuries of war mongering and meddling) has been less than pure. But by the same token, the US military may be losing ground to other militaries and who knows how the power balances will shift in time as Russia and China become emboldened.

The entire region is at least a century from widespread peace and prosperity.

Housefree

Scoundrel wrote: »

Indeed all 4 Labour leadership candidates after Corbyn had to publicly declare themselves Zionists lest they be accused of anti semitism the hideous zionist Israel lobby using the holocaust to its advantage again.

Some Labour MPs speaking out, no doubt the anti semitism claims will follow. Great news channel to follow on YouTube all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOLhiJBlbbE

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution.

Israels Human Rights organization declared it Apartheid
'A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid'
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group
https://www.ipsc.ie/

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign
https://bdsmovement.net/

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

namloc1980

Housefree wrote: »

Some Labour MPs speaking out, no doubt the anti semitism claims will follow. Great news channel to follow on YouTube all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOLhiJBlbbE

This is the go to tactic of the Israeli lobby. Any hint of criticism they are immediately out with the anti-semitic card to try to shut down debate. We had a poster throwing around anti-semitism last night to try to paint any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. It's pathetic but a very effective strategy that zionists have employed for a long time now to smother debate.

Mimon

ypres5 wrote: »

Thank God there's absolutely no persecution of non Muslims in the Arab world then...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report&ved=2ahUKEwjU7Kfv1cjwAhXWTBUIHV4ZChEQFjAKegQIHhAC&usg=AOvVaw31VfDwSHusFs9Tv_GCVV5R&ampcf=1

Can you make a point without using whataboutery?

timmyntc

namloc1980 wrote: »

This is the go to tactic of the Israeli lobby. Any hint of criticism they are immediately out with the anti-semitic card to try to shut down debate. We had a poster throwing around anti-semitism last night to try to paint any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. It's pathetic but a very effective strategy that zionists have employed for a long time now to smother debate.

Probably a member of the JIDF (Jewish Internet Defence Force)

Housefree

Don't forget who your debating here, Israel employs an army of online trolls, giving them talking points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYzVOlcENZ4

Ireland is a massive battleground for Israel as we nearly got the Occupied Territories Bill passed which will create a domino effect throughout Europe

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Territories_Bill

Only Fine Gael opposed the bill

Signore Fancy Pants

Lads, when ye see "ground troops", it does not automatically mean infantry/Cavalry combat.

The current tactics being employed by Israel are firstly strategic air strikes, followed by direct/indirect fire from Artillery and armoured assets. These are designed to disable Palestinian leadership and strategic assets to weaken resistance and to make a ground effort more favourable.

After this has been achieved and if required, Infantry/Cavalry troops will enter Gaza on a "seek and destroy" mission, gather intelligence, assess the situation, make arrests and most likely kill active resistance. All under the cover of aerial support.

Lets hope mediation is achieved in the interim. However, if Israel have not achieved their desired effect with the current offensive, it may result in troops in Gaza.

ypres5

namloc1980 wrote: »

You went on some rant about Saudi Arabia "if a non Muslim gets within an asses roar of mecca they're locked up. But so long as it's not Jews doing the locking up it's alright". And added the last piece as some sort of fantastical scenario that everyone thinks persecution is grand except when it comes to Israel. Of course nobody said that but you ran with it anyway. :pac:

It's not a rant it's fact, fly to Saudi Arabia and try to visit mecca and see what happens.