Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

timmyntc

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

After this has been achieved and if required, Infantry/Cavalry troops will enter Gaza on a "seek and destroy" mission, gather intelligence, assess the situation, make arrests and most likely kill active resistance unarmed children. All under the cover of aerial support.

FYP

Signore Fancy Pants

timmyntc wrote: »

FYP

I certainly don't disagree.

namloc1980

ypres5 wrote: »

It's not a rant it's fact, fly to Saudi Arabia and try to visit mecca and see what happens.

Again you are off on some sort of tangent here. What does the status of Mecca have to do with anything here? Seems like deflection.

cameramonkey

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again you are off on some sort of tangent here. What does the status of Mecca have to do with anything here? Seems like deflection.

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/conte...oll-army/27566

ypres5

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again you are off on some sort of tangent here. What does the status of Mecca have to do with anything here? Seems like deflection.

Tell that to whoever brought up Saudi Arabia in the first place

ypres5

cameramonkey wrote: »

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/conte...oll-army/27566

Not to sound rude but I doubt that Israel give much of a **** about you or boards.ie so let's not flatter ourselves. Also I've been a member for several months and only joined this thread a couple of days ago, look at my post history. Was I on deep cover until then in your mind?

cameramonkey

ypres5 wrote: »

Was I on deep cover until then in your mind?

Obviously

declanflynn

Hopefully Turkey will defend The Palestinian people, it would be great to see the bully boys face someone their own size

starkid

Is there no balance to be had in this debate?

Both sides are nearly as bad as each other.

Israels understandable determination to avoid another holocaust has turned it into a hawkish facist state. the problem is its early determination has been replaced by a kind of blood oath of revenge.

Hamas stated goal of destroying Israel, and Islam's questionable idea of subjugation are massive problems here.

There will never be a solution to this. With two crazy religions (covenants and black cubes) involved, violence is probably the only solution.

SafeSurfer

declanflynn wrote: »

Hopefully Turkey will defend The Palestinian people, it would be great to see the bully boys face someone their own size

They won’t.

cameramonkey

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/violations-against-children-must-end-nine-children-killed-latest-gaza-strip

The killing of children must stop from both sides. One child in Israel was killed. Unicef saying Israel's killing of children must stop, Four of the children murdered were siblings, and many attended the same UNRWA school.

The killing of children by Israel and Hamas should result in some sanction.

partyguinness

Israel only exists to act as a counter balance in the Middle East to protect Western interests. Unfortunately the Palestinian people are collateral damage. That is not going to change any time soon.

Although personally I doubt Israel will see its 100 year anniversary.

ypres5

declanflynn wrote: »

Hopefully Turkey will defend The Palestinian people, it would be great to see the bully boys face someone their own size

Yes, let's have the titan of human rights and religious freedom, Turkey enter the fray. Someone remind me how the Kurds there are treated? Or where all the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians went?

namloc1980

declanflynn wrote: »

Hopefully Turkey will defend The Palestinian people, it would be great to see the bully boys face someone their own size

Erdogan is all talk. He's happy enough to persecute the Kurds and other minorities in his own back yard because they can't really fight back, but he wouldn't dare take on Israel.

partyguinness

declanflynn wrote: »

Hopefully Turkey will defend The Palestinian people, it would be great to see the bully boys face someone their own size

Oh man...you will be waiting.

cameramonkey

according to BBC reports now at least 119 have been killed in Gaza, including 31 children, and 830 others wounded in the current hostilities, Palestinian medical officials said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-57099013

For an army and air force that prides itself on its technological prowess, you would think they could be more accurate. You would almost think they were deliberately targeting and trying to kill women and children.

Fandymo

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You're acting as though the Israeli strikes are indiscriminate. They're precision strikes on buildings being used by terrorists. The IDF is literally phoning the residents to tell them to get out with two hours notice in some cases and they're using "knock" missiles first designed to shake up the building but leave it intact so that people can get out before it's levelled. Israeli citizens get as little as 30 seconds warning about Palestinian rockets.
The Palestine rockets are completely indiscriminate. Hell, 400 of them misfired and fell down on their own people.

"Oh but Israel is protected by its Iron Dome defence system. Palestine has no Iron Dome."

The Iron Dome is 90% effective. 10% of the rockets land in Israel and the more rockets Hamas and Hezbollah fire, the bigger that 10% is in absolute terms. Israel has to strike back.

Oh and Palestine does have a missile defence system. It's called "Don't fire rockets at Israel."

Have you ever moved house? Did it take you more than 2 hours from phoning a removal crew to being out? Where are these civilians meant to go?

cameramonkey

https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1393122710922932224

Shocking murder of a whole family. These murders really should be condemned by all but as we unfortunately know many people support and defend these killings of women and children. Those responsible should be in the international court.

timmyntc

starkid wrote: »

Is there no balance to be had in this debate?

Both sides are nearly as bad as each other.

Israels understandable determination to avoid another holocaust has turned it into a hawkish facist state. the problem is its early determination has been replaced by a kind of blood oath of revenge.

Hamas stated goal of destroying Israel, and Islam's questionable idea of subjugation are massive problems here.

There will never be a solution to this. With two crazy religions (covenants and black cubes) involved, violence is probably the only solution.

No. Israels want for a larger state and perceived need to take Palestinian land to do so, is turning it into a hawkish apartheid state. Same reason they occupied Golan Heights in Syria. Same reason they backed rebels in Syria - hoping to destabilise the country so that they might make more territorial gains.

partyguinness wrote: »

Israel only exists to act as a counter balance in the Middle East to protect Western interests. Unfortunately the Palestinian people are collateral damage. That is not going to change any time soon.

Although personally I doubt Israel will see its 100 year anniversary.

Israel exists as a Jewish ethnostate for religious reasons - western interests in Israel are because of a strong Israeli lobby in western countries, particularly the US.

timmyntc

namloc1980 wrote: »

Erdogan is all talk. He's happy enough to persecute the Kurds and other minorities in his own back yard because they can't really fight back, but he wouldn't dare take on Israel.

Turkey is aligned with Saudi Arabia who are aligned with Israel.
Iranians would back up the Palestinians, but only by proxy (Hezbollah). they would not risk declaration of war because the US would (happily) bomb them into oblivion.

Fandymo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's anti-Semitism.

For some reason, many people - particularly young people - are obsessed with "Palestinians" (you'll note the constant dismissal, harassment, ad hominem attacks, group mentality, non-objectivity etc.). It's almost a form of unquestionable political religion.

It's almost a non-questionable religion in and of itself. You will find no criticism of Hamas, even though they are the political equivalent of ISIS and, indeed, support ISIS.

So, we have this weird cognitive dissonance going on. Condemnation of Islamic radicalism in Europe but, when the Israelis encounter exactly the same kind of radicalism and threats to their very existence, this is given the apologia of "it's Israel's fault".

There are also many other minorities and communities around the entire planet that people could care about - none of which get the same obsession as Palestinians.

And, for me at least, as someone who previously was a disciple to the "Palestinian cause", I realize now it is only a mask for anti-Semitism. If it were not Jews running Israel, but another variety of Muslim, for example, I'm absolutely certain the cause would not have gathered the same traction.

I could go on. But suffice to say, this is enough food for thought in the now.

NOT. ALL. PALESTINIANS. ARE. IN. HAMAS.

Same as not every Irish person was in the IRA.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

NOT. ALL. PALESTINIANS. ARE. IN. HAMAS.

Same as not every Irish person was in the IRA.

The vast majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas.

Hand-in-glove between the two.

That's the equivalent of a Muslim-majority country voting for ISIS or Al Qaeda.

timmyntc

eskimohunt wrote: »

The vast majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas.

Hand-in-glove between the two.

That's the equivalent of a Muslim-majority country voting for ISIS or Al Qaeda.

And?
If you were being bombed indiscriminately and having your land stolen, you would vote for a party with a "military" wing too.

That doesnt give anyone the right to murder innocent people, regardless of their voting intentions.

Housefree

Daily existence in apartheid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Gpjh2VXI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xDauzegh_Q

Human Rights Watch
Israel Apartheid State
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

jmreire

Fandymo wrote: »

Have you ever moved house? Did it take you more than 2 hours from phoning a removal crew to being out? Where are these civilians meant to go?

In real life, when warned, you grab the baby and run literally for your life. If you get 2 hours notice, you grab some essentials and run, Under no circumstance's do you delay, especially when it comes from a source that is known for following up on their declarations. There are lots of warring actions in the world where the only warning is when the first rocket / mortar / shell lands. And this generally is only the first one of a barrage.

timmyntc

timmyntc wrote: »

And?
If you were being bombed indiscriminately and having your land stolen, you would vote for a party with a "military" wing too.

That doesnt give anyone the right to murder innocent people, regardless of their voting intentions.

Hamas is a terrorist organization; a death cult that yearns for the extermination of the Jewish people.

That ideology is incompatible with "peace" on any terms, at any time.

The idea that Hamas can "co-operate" with Israel is arrant poppycock. It's a contradiction in terms. Hamas exists to not co-operate. That's their raison d'etre.

You condemn Israel for responding militarily against this reprobate organization, yet say nothing about what I describe above, nor the Articles in the Hamas constitution that openly state that they are a genocidal organization.

Would you want to break bread with people who want to exterminate you?

I think not. And Israel is reacting accordingly - and proportionally. As with all wars, there will be civilian casualties. That's the nature of war.

But whilst we're on the topic of war, do remember what I mentioned above: that Hamas exist for war with Israel as the status quo. And as long as that remains the case, Israel will defend itself and should defend itself against such a necrotic threat.

wes

Fandymo wrote: »

NOT. ALL. PALESTINIANS. ARE. IN. HAMAS.

Same as not every Irish person was in the IRA.

Again, I do note that the user you replied to screaming anti-semitism at the top of their lungs on here, has a derogatory term in their username:

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/eskimo

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Hamas is a terrorist organization; a death cult that yearns for the extermination of the Jewish people.

That ideology is incompatible with "peace" on any terms, at any time.

The idea that Hamas can "co-operate" with Israel is arrant poppycock. It's a contradiction in terms. Hamas exists to not co-operate. That's their raison d'etre.

You condemn Israel for responding militarily against this reprobate organization, yet say nothing about what I describe above, nor the Articles in the Hamas constitution that openly state that they are a genocidal organization.

Would you want to break bread with people who want to exterminate you?

I think not. And Israel is reacting accordingly - and proportionally. As with all wars, there will be civilian casualties. That's the nature of war.

But whilst we're on the topic of war, do remember what I mentioned above: that Hamas exist for war with Israel as the status quo. And as long as that remains the case, Israel will defend itself and should defend itself against such a necrotic threat.

^^^^

TL:DR version. Hamas is bad so murdering civilians is justified.

wes

namloc1980 wrote: »

^^^^

TL:DR version. Hamas is bad so murdering civilians is justified.

That is basically the position of most apologists, no amount of facts will convince them that Palestinians have any rights and they will accuse everyone else of racism, while literally using a derogatory slur in their username.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

^^^^

TL:DR version. Hamas is bad so murdering civilians is justified.

I'm not sure what you've been reading, but that conclusion you've drawn does not follow logically from any of the points I made.