Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

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cnocbui wrote: »

The state of Israel was founded by terrorists.

Like all others, cnocbui.

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

loughside

eskimohunt wrote: »

Israel should continue the operation until all strategic objectives have been achieved, neutralizing any threats from Hamas operatives and command and control.

This will be achieved in as targeted a manner as possible.

Some civilians may perish, and that is a negative strategic outcome, but many more civilians will die if Hamas is allowed to send unfettered numbers of rockets into Israel to sow the destruction they yearn for.

There is no solution here where no innocent civilians die.

Hamas have made it their raison d'etre to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible.

It's in their charter.

Read it.

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Fuascailteoir

loughside wrote: »

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Poots, should you not be involved in the leadership vote today?

namloc1980

loughside wrote: »

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Safe to say you have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks for letting us all know anyway.

Five Eighth

loughside wrote: »

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Methinks he doth protest too much. Seems like a secondary agenda.

Overheal

loughside wrote: »

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Source?

igCorcaigh

A possibility Hezbollah might get involved from the North?
That would make things worse, surely.

loughside

Overheal wrote: »

Source?

Ah, certainly... just one example of hundreds, be it Hamas or IRA, they use their own population,


Barbaric and Cowardly



"One of the worst atrocities of the Troubles, it emerged that Mr Gillespie had been tied to the 1,200lb bomb which exploded when he tried to open the door of the van. It was one of three proxy bomb attacks carried out by the IRA on the night of October 23/24"


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/24/news/-barbaric-and-cowardly-coshquin-human-bombing-remembered-30-years-on-2108550/

KeepItLight

Finding it hard to believe that some Irish people on here actually support what Israel are doing, absolute scumbags.

Overheal

loughside wrote: »

Ah, certainly... just one example of hundreds, be it Hamas or IRA, they use their own population,


Barbaric and Cowardly



"One of the worst atrocities of the Troubles, it emerged that Mr Gillespie had been tied to the 1,200lb bomb which exploded when he tried to open the door of the van. It was one of three proxy bomb attacks carried out by the IRA on the night of October 23/24"


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/24/news/-barbaric-and-cowardly-coshquin-human-bombing-remembered-30-years-on-2108550/

Sorry let me rephrase my question:

Source to the *charter* please?

I’m not interested in the whataboutist deflection

igCorcaigh

KeepItLight wrote: »

Finding it hard to believe that some Irish people on here actually support what Israel are doing, absolute scumbags.

I guess people also understand that when rockets are being fired at your city, then your government needs to respond?
I have never come across a conflict where things are black and white, so people's opinions will vary. Not a mystery?

Tyrone212

loughside wrote: »

Yes it`s a worldwide `terrorist` charter and one thats identical to the terrorist scum of the IRA, using their own innocent catholic population as expendable fodder.

Israeli defence forces take plenty of inspiration from British army scum killing innocent civilians and then lying/covering it up. The British army saw innocent Catholics as "expendable fodder" ie Ballymurphy, Bloody Sunday to name but a few.

igCorcaigh

loughside wrote: »

Ah, certainly... just one example of hundreds, be it Hamas or IRA, they use their own population,


Barbaric and Cowardly



"One of the worst atrocities of the Troubles, it emerged that Mr Gillespie had been tied to the 1,200lb bomb which exploded when he tried to open the door of the van. It was one of three proxy bomb attacks carried out by the IRA on the night of October 23/24"


https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/10/24/news/-barbaric-and-cowardly-coshquin-human-bombing-remembered-30-years-on-2108550/

Some awful things done by both IRA and Hamas.
I abhor them both.

These moments are snapshots of conflicts; the whole picture is a thing of horror, but rooted in injustice, and sometimes sheer bigotry and hatred.
All conflicts involve these things.

KeepItLight

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I guess people also understand that when rockets are being fired at your city, then your government needs to respond?
I have never come across a conflict where things are black and white, so people's opinions will vary. Not a mystery?

The 'both sides are as bad as each other' spiel doesn't align with reality here.

Israel is the aggressor and this is as black and white as conflicts get.

ypres5

KeepItLight wrote: »

Finding it hard to believe that some Irish people on here actually support what Israel are doing, absolute scumbags.

Throwing a tantrum and insulting people for not agreeing with you, very mature.

Timberrrrrrrr

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I guess people also understand that when rockets are being fired at your city, then your government needs to respond?
I have never come across a conflict where things are black and white, so people's opinions will vary. Not a mystery?

Would it have been acceptable for the British army to fire rockets at Dublin, Cork, Galway because the IRA bombed Birmingham or London?

ypres5

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would it have been acceptable for the British army to fire rockets at Dublin, Cork, Galway because the IRA bombed Birmingham or London?

Why would they have bombed the republic, which was a completely different entity to northern ireland? The attempts to pigeonhole the Israel Palestine conflict through Irish history is beyond embarrassing at this point

Timberrrrrrrr

ypres5 wrote: »

Why would they have bombed the republic, which was a completely different entity to northern ireland? The attempts to pigeonhole the Israel Palestine conflict through Irish history is beyond embarrassing at this point

That depends on your political beliefs but ok, let's change Dublin, Cork for Belfast or Derry...would it have been acceptable for the BA to have Bombed blocks of flats there? The I.R.A used to use people's houses as safe places to hide out after all.

Overheal

ypres5 wrote: »

Why would they have bombed the republic, which was a completely different entity to northern ireland? The attempts to pigeonhole the Israel Palestine conflict through Irish history is beyond embarrassing at this point

Having spent your thread career pigeonholing criticism of Israel as antisemitism I think you'd be the last in line to accuse anyone else of pigeonholing.

ypres5

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That depends on your political beliefs but ok, let's change Dublin, Cork for Belfast or Derry...would it have been acceptable for the BA to have Bombed blocks of flats there? The I.R.A used to use people's houses as safe places to hide out after all.

The difference is that the IRA haven't carries out 1600 bombings over the period of a few days. Mind you the military geniuses at Hamas managed to drop 400 on themselves but you can't compare the two scenarios

ypres5

Overheal wrote: »

Having spent your thread career pigeonholing criticism of Israel as antisemitism I think you'd be the last in line to accuse anyone else of pigeonholing.

Okay so I'll ignore all the references to Jewish media, the Holocaust, appeals for an Arab coalition, Turkey or Iran to 'sort Israel out' in the thread then.

Timberrrrrrrr

ypres5 wrote: »

The difference is that the IRA haven't carries out 1600 bombings over the period of a few days. Mind you the military geniuses at Hamas managed to drop 400 on themselves but you can't compare the two scenarios

That's not what I asked you though

After the Birmingham bombings (which killed more people than Hamas have killed in Israel) would it have been acceptable to you if the B.A lobbed rockets into civilian areas of Belfast or Derry?

Overheal

eskimohunt wrote: »

Anti-Israeli's never, ever give the names and ages of Israeli civilians murdered by Hamasian rockets.

I guess some civilian lives matter more than others.

So-called Pro-Israeli's, similarly, have failed to "give the names and ages of Israeli civilians murdered by Hamasian rockets."

I entreat you to do so. I think reading through both lists of names - those killed by Hamas and those killed by Israel - would be enlightening. So don't let us stop you.

ypres5

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That's not what I asked you though

After the Birmingham bombings (which killed more people than Hamas have killed in Israel) would it have been acceptable to you if the B.A lobbed rockets into civilian areas of Belfast or Derry?

But Israel are only launching rockets in response to attacks on them. Where would the British have bombed and whom? This is just getting more and more illogical

topdecko

Conflating the political situation in Israel/Gaza with what happened in the north some decades ago is a waste of time. The current situation in Gaza is much more malign where you have bombardment of a population who are effectively corralled in a massive open air prison wherein the Israelis control food, water and electricity supply.
that coupled with land grabs and ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people in the West Bank sanctioned by the Israel courts in some bizarre legal machinations then it looks like there is little hope for the Palestinians. they are being brutalised and when they react as any person would with what little they have it is used as justification for even more slaughter.
Israel is repeating the sins that were foisted on them in the past.

Odhinn

ypres5 wrote: »

But Israel are only launching rockets in response to attacks on them. Where would the British have bombed and whom? This is just getting more and more illogical

And why were those attacks launched on them?

wes

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I guess people also understand that when rockets are being fired at your city, then your government needs to respond?

Deliberate targeting of civilians, which is what the IDF is doing (again openly admitting to terror on Twitter of all places) is not acceptable no matter what. Doesn't matter what the other side has done, its not right, end of.

In this instance, Israel is the aggressor, they are not responding, Hamas are the ones who responded, again it is unacceptable to engage in indiscriminate rocket fire, but the fact remains Hamas retaliated, Israel is the aggressor.

Duman

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I guess people also understand that when rockets are being fired at your city, then your government needs to respond?
I have never come across a conflict where things are black and white, so people's opinions will vary. Not a mystery?

but *why* are there rockets being fired? did the Palestinians just wake up one day, and said to themselves "we bombing Israel today"?

or maybe, do they have a reason why they are launching those rockets? what did your government do to have people launching rockets at them?

things being "not black and white" doesn't mean anything. there is still an obvious opressor, and an obvious opressed. Israel are not "defending" themselves. They are the ones aggressively expanding their zone of influence, and claiming to "defend" the land they forcefuly took from the Palestinians in the first place.

You don't need to like Palestininans or Muslims to see who is right and who is wrong.

Timberrrrrrrr

ypres5 wrote: »

But Israel are only launching rockets in response to attacks on them. Where would the British have bombed and whom? This is just getting more and more illogical

Belfast, Derry...ya know...the I.R.A strongholds of those days. The B.A knew who almost every I.R.A person was, should they have bombed thier homes?

Would this have been acceptable to you? It's a simple question that you refuse to answer, whys that?

ypres5

Odhinn wrote: »

And why were those attacks launched on them?

Because squatters were being evicted and because they're Palestinian they deserve special treatment and the whole thing escalated from there.