Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Overheal

Montage of Feck wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon_(2009_film)

Anything in English, perhaps that was circulated in European or North American cinema?

wotzgoingon

Overheal wrote: »

I think you need to take a look at these rockets:

Anyone with steelwork experience, a spot-welder, and the right tools and household chemicals can build one of these. You could build them out of scrap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket





There is really not a lot to them. No guidance, no sophistication beyond the nailbomb payload. Nobody has to sell them these, they are readily made. A kind of shocking innovation in guerilla warfare.

They are a more advanced IRA motor bomb. Built to travel further distances. And being primitive is why the Iron Dome can intercept them as they travel far more slowly then an advanced guided missile.

Overheal

wotzgoingon wrote: »

They are a more advanced IRA motor bomb. Built to travel further distances. And being primitive is why the Iron Dome can intercept them as they travel far more slowly then an advanced guided missile.

Well in the same way you compare a bottle rocket to a mortar. Both are indirect fire ordnance. In both cases it looks to be a matter of whats on hand, the PIRA had the cylinders handy for high payload, immediate range launchers.

Did they have rocket motors on them or did you mishear mortar verbally somewhere?

wotzgoingon

Overheal wrote: »

Well in the same way you compare a bottle rocket to a mortar. Both are indirect fire ordnance. In both cases it looks to be a matter of whats on hand, the PIRA had the cylinders handy for high payload, immediate range launchers.

Did they have rocket motors on them or did you mishear mortar verbally somewhere?

I was meant to say mortar not motor. Damn keyboard.

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

I think you need to take a look at these rockets:

Anyone with steelwork experience, a spot-welder, and the right tools and household chemicals can build one of these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket





There is really not a lot to them. No guidance, no sophistication beyond the nailbomb payload. Nobody has to sell them these, they are readily made. A kind of shocking innovation in guerilla warfare.

True, it can be done like this and I've seen them. In Syria they used household gas cylinders. They also used a very basic home made mortar. But in a society where everything is controlled, even ( and especially ) anything that could be weaponised so even the basics would not be that easy to come by. According to some of the posts on here, there was no ground invasion of Gaza, but an airborne one, designed to destroy the "Gaza Metro" tunnels and everything that was in them. There had to be smuggling going on, explosives, steel tubing etc etc. The fact that these rockets exist is proof of that.

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

True, it can be done like this and I've seen them. In Syria they used household gas cylinders. They also used a very basic home made mortar. But in a society where everything is controlled, even ( and especially ) anything that could be weaponised so even the basics would not be that easy to come by. According to some of the posts on here, there was no ground invasion of Gaza, but an airborne one, designed to destroy the "Gaza Metro" tunnels and everything that was in them. There had to be smuggling going on, explosives, steel tubing etc etc. The fact that these rockets exist is proof of that.

There may well be smuggling of components to avoid controls but I'm only demonstrating the point that they don't need a nation state sending them these weapons fully-assembled in covert shipments, the rockets themselves are build-a-bear levels of simplicity for a trained insurgency.

moceri

How Settlers acquire a Palestinian property under Israeli law.


https://youtu.be/ksnLom8OD9E

It seems to me Hamas are using upgraded missiles rather than Qassam judging by the Iron Dome activity. Iron Dome finds it easier to hit missiles rather than mortar or other artillery shells as the ID uses heat seeking missiles.

If Hamas started using long range artillery then there would be a greater threat to Israel but it's not likely given the blockade and bulky nature of howitzers and the like.

Overheal

Edz87 wrote: »

It seems to me Hamas are using upgraded missiles rather than Qassam judging by the Iron Dome activity. Iron Dome finds it easier to hit missiles rather than mortar or other artillery shells as the ID uses heat seeking missiles.

If Hamas started using long range artillery then there would be a greater threat to Israel but it's not likely given the blockade and bulky nature of howitzers and the like.

You mean judging by some making it through? If so, I don't think that's the case. The dome manufacturer markets it at a 90% success rate, and that's under ideal conditions. It's the sheer volume of rockets both rolling against the probabilities on the dome's success rate, and simply attempting to oversaturate the throughput of the iron dome, which still runs on finite missile racks, with 1 interceptor matching 1 rocket. The aim is to overwhelm the capacity to rearm the system with a higher volume of cheaper rockets, adding sophistication to the weapons is counterintuitive in the tradeoff against unit volume.

Overheal

Now this is Anti-semitism: Alan Dershowitz smears Bernie Sanders as a "self-hating Jew" after his NYT Op-ed was published calling for the US to be more even handed in its diplomacy and to distance itself from the rightwing Netanyahu regime. https://www.mediaite.com/tv/alan-dershowitz-calls-bernie-sanders-a-self-hating-jew-in-newsmax-segment-on-israel/

Dershowitz proceeded to hysterically fear that Gaza somehow has any military capability to win any military engagement with Israel.

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

There may well be smuggling of components to avoid controls but I'm only demonstrating the point that they don't need a nation state sending them these weapons fully-assembled in covert shipments, the rockets themselves are build-a-bear levels of simplicity for a trained insurgency.

From an article in the New York Times,updated 14 May 2021. " the Nr of rockets held by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other Palestinian milltants, is estimated at 30'000."
Production at this level needs outside support, and Iran is thought to be the main supplier. Definitely, the long range rockets are using technology suplied by Iran, and the multiple launches from several different sites has shown weaknesses in the Iron Dome system, so their capabilities are definitely improving., and all this is being done with the help of Iran. And perhaps ironically, they use parts ( explosives especially) recovered from rockets fired by the IDF, but which failed to explode.

deisedevil

Just been looking through photos and videos from the last couple of days. Incredibly cruel. Poor innocent children being blown to pieces who's only crime was being born into such an unfortunate piece of land. And all for what? The claims of a pure fairy tale. Zionists are incredibly evil.

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

From an article in the New York Times,updated 14 May 2021. " the Nr of rockets held by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other Palestinian milltants, is estimated at 30'000."
Production at this level needs outside support, and Iran is thought to be the main supplier. Definitely, the long range rockets are using technology suplied by Iran, and the multiple launches from several different sites has shown weaknesses in the Iron Dome system, so their capabilities are definitely improving., and all this is being done with the help of Iran.

Is that according to Israeli Defence Forces Lt Col Jonathan Conricus?

At the risk of ad hominems I'm skeptical of that report. United States Secretary of State, Colin Powell, also told the world some real porkers at the UN general assembly. Not that the numbers are not plausible, however unproven. Evidence of such a scale of weaponry, also in itself, is not enough to incriminate Iran on.

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

Is that according to Israeli Defence Forces Lt Col Jonathan Conricus?

At the risk of ad hominems I'm skeptical of that report. United States Secretary of State, Colin Powell, also told the world some real porkers at the UN general assembly. Not that the numbers are not plausible, however unproven. Evidence of such a scale of weaponry, also in itself, is not enough to incriminate Iran on.

The article was written by Mona El-Nagger. so have a look yourself.

What to Know About Gaza's Rocket Arsenal - The New York ...https://www.nytimes.com › World › Middle East
1 day ago — Gaza's Rockets: A Replenished Arsenal That Vexes Israel.
Sorry, but the actual link wont copy, but google above, and it should get you there .

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

The article was written by Mona El-Nagger. so have a look yourself.

What to Know About Gaza's Rocket Arsenal - The New York ...https://www.nytimes.com › World › Middle East
1 day ago — Gaza's Rockets: A Replenished Arsenal That Vexes Israel.
Sorry, but the actual link wont copy, but google above, and it should get you there .

That's alright. Unless it's confirmed by an independent source, like UN observers, it's conjecture anyway.

wotzgoingon

jmreire wrote: »

The article was written by Mona El-Nagger. so have a look yourself.

What to Know About Gaza's Rocket Arsenal - The New York ...https://www.nytimes.com › World › Middle East
1 day ago — Gaza's Rockets: A Replenished Arsenal That Vexes Israel.
Sorry, but the actual link wont copy, but google above, and it should get you there .

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/world/middleeast/gaza-rockets-hamas-israel.html

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

True, it can be done like this and I've seen them. In Syria they used household gas cylinders. They also used a very basic home made mortar. But in a society where everything is controlled, even ( and especially ) anything that could be weaponised so even the basics would not be that easy to come by. According to some of the posts on here, there was no ground invasion of Gaza, but an airborne one, designed to destroy the "Gaza Metro" tunnels and everything that was in them. There had to be smuggling going on, explosives, steel tubing etc etc. The fact that these rockets exist is proof of that.

Gaza military factions smuggle in weapons through dug out underground cover tunnels. The factions have also weapon workshops where people build from scratch rockets of various types. You see from this Hamas video the launchers for the bigger payload rockets is far more sophisticated. They launched some of these rockets at locations deeper into Israel occasionally ( targets are normally civilian neighborhoods around Jerusalem )

https://twitter.com/Beingsajiddarr/status/1391842796730949634

Despite what IDF saying the Gaza factions network not severely degraded. Rockets squads are still launching barrages from Gaza into Israel regularly. IDF looks to be trying a new tactic of demoralizing the population.

Overheal

Cheerful S wrote: »

Gaza military factions smuggle in weapons through dug out underground cover tunnels. The factions have also weapon workshops where people build from scratch rockets of various types. You see from this Hamas video the launchers for the bigger payload rockets is far more sophisticated. They launched some of these rockets at locations deeper into Israel occasionally ( targets are normally civilian neighborhoods around Jerusalem )

https://twitter.com/Beingsajiddarr/status/1391842796730949634

Despite what IDF saying the Gaza factions network not severely degraded. Rockets squads are still launching barrages from Gaza into Israel regularly. IDF looks to be trying a new tactic of demoralizing the population.

Have they considered one of those ceasefires that was on the table? Or committing to the 2 state solution?

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

That's alright. Unless it's confirmed by an independent source, like UN observers, it's conjecture anyway.

Well, it all boils down to what you make yourself of it..and it's my opinion that Iran has always supported any faction that fights Israel. And they have been and will continue to support Palestinian efforts against Israel.

EltonJohn69

moceri wrote: »

How Settlers acquire a Palestinian property under Israeli law.


https://youtu.be/ksnLom8OD9E

That was completely insane !

Cheerful S

Overheal wrote: »

Have they considered one of those ceasefires that was on the table? Or committing to the 2 state solution?

Palestinians do not accept two state solution put together when Trump was in office. Israel has a project (a plan) but they still essentially control freedom of movement and the economic wellbeing of Gaza and West bank. The factions don’t accept Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel either so a two state solution is unworkable for them in its current state.

Long way away from the two parties agreeing to share land. Plus Israel in the last hour has targeted a house in Gaza (suspected Hamas leader) killing many civilians includes children. Talk of ceasefire off the table for the time being.

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

Well, it all boils down to what you make yourself of it..and it's my opinion that Iran has always supported any faction that fights Israel. And they have been and will continue to support Palestinian efforts against Israel.

Regardless it's not enough to go on to drag Iran up into this based on nothing but that conjecture.

tigerboon

Overheal wrote: »

Regardless it's not enough to go on to drag Iran up into this based on nothing but that conjecture.

Well there's no munitions factories in Gaza we know of but Hamas can launch 1700 missiles since Monday.

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

Well, it all boils down to what you make yourself of it..and it's my opinion that Iran has always supported any faction that fights Israel. And they have been and will continue to support Palestinian efforts against Israel.

PIJ ( Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s faction) is well known to be heavily funded by Iran. The leadership reguarly meets the IRGC and Iranian leadership. Hamas funding mainly comes from Qatar and Egypt (covertly here) Hamas does have ties to Iran. Hamas is not beholden to Iran like the PIJ faction would be

wotzgoingon

Sure if we are talking about countries funding other countries USA are not angels either and have giving money and weapons to people who will help their cause in different countries and have done so for many, many years.

Overheal

tigerboon wrote: »

Well there's no munitions factories in Gaza we know of but Hamas can launch 1700 missiles since Monday.

You can build this grade of weapon without a 'factory' they can be built in a garage. No heavy machinery involved.

tigerboon

Overheal wrote: »

You can build this grade of weapon without a 'factory' they can be built in a garage. No heavy machinery involved.

And all those parts and explosive materials are available in the small enclave of Gaza?

Cheerful S

tigerboon wrote: »

Well there's no munitions factories in Gaza we know of but Hamas can launch 1700 missiles since Monday.

Yes there is weapon factories in Gaza.

Gaza Strip security controlled by Hamas surveillance forces not Israel

Israel has a buffer zone control outside the city to prevent large scale attacks thats all. The factions have had years to assemble and prepare rockets for a new war with Israel. Israel has no ground forces inside the city to stop the factions building bombs in hidden locations. Realistically. only way to put end to Hamas rule is to invade and that will involve a large deployment of troops and involve street to street fighting. A mess when Gaza is a high density civilian area.

Overheal

tigerboon wrote: »

And all those parts and explosive materials are available in the small enclave of Gaza?

You wouldn't be able to hide a foundry of size very well. The steel is likely salvaged, repurposed or smuggled. That assumption is not enough to indict a third party on. Or the steel is being smelted from scrap in concealable quantities.

jmreire

tigerboon wrote: »

And all those parts and explosive materials are available in the small enclave of Gaza?

My point Exactly. And especially when Israel supposedly controls the borders to the extent that nothing can get in..something definitely not adding up.