Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Overheal

jmreire wrote: »

My point Exactly. And especially when Israel supposedly controls the borders to the extent that nothing can get in..something definitely not adding up.

Perhaps Israel is allowing the stockpile?

wotzgoingon

jmreire wrote: »

My point Exactly. And especially when Israel supposedly controls the borders to the extent that nothing can get in..something definitely not adding up.

There is a small part of the Gaza border Israel doesn't control and that is the southern strip of Gaza with Egypt.

Danzy

jmreire wrote: »

My point Exactly. And especially when Israel supposedly controls the borders to the extent that nothing can get in..something definitely not adding up.

If Israel had soldiers on every corner in Gaza and on the border even tighter. Things would still get in

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

My point Exactly. And especially when Israel supposedly controls the borders to the extent that nothing can get in..something definitely not adding up.

They do not lock rockets to destination. Solid fuel missiles on the other hand have a Global Positioning System (GPS) and are very precise targeting. The Gaza factions are launching rockets and hoping they hit a target. Very similar to Katyusha rockets and you can buy them in the truckload at markets inside Libya and Syria. They're very cheap to make and carry a small explosive package. Isis was making rockets in backstreet houses, it easy to make them. Just with a bit of money and materials make a ****load of them every month.

jmreire

Cheerful S wrote: »

They do not lock rockets to destination. Solid fuel missiles on the other hand have a Global Positioning System (GPS) and are very precise targeting. The Gaza factions are launching rockets and hoping they hit a target. Very similar to Katyusha rockets and you can buy them in the truckload at markets inside Libya and Syria. They're very cheap to make and carry a small explosive package. Isis was making rockets in backstreet houses, it easy to make them. Just with a bit of money and materials make a ****load of them every month.

I'm familiar with how they work, and how they are made. The question is the supply of parts for their construction, especially the explosives in Gaza.

Cheerful S

Fear for Israel in all seriousness is Hezbollah. Reaction will be stronger scale wise. It’s well established Iran has smuggled advanced missiles to Lebanon and this will concern the IDF. There be serious blows inside Israel if they decide to join in. It’s doubtful, think Israel got endless supply of Iron Dome interceptors. The missile interceptors cost far more than the rockets they are taking down here coming out of Gaza. Israel stockpile of interceptors start running low, more rockets will get through the grid. If a new front opens up the Iron dome batteries and crew will have sleepless nights.

jmreire

wotzgoingon wrote: »

There is a small part of the Gaza border Israel doesn't control and that is the southern strip of Gaza with Egypt.

Yes, and that was the loophole, ( one of them anyway) but then the Israelis got Egypt to tighten up the border security.

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

Perhaps Israel is allowing the stockpile?

That idea was mentioned here before, that the Israelis allowed it in order to later "discover "it and use it as justification for an attack, and thereby prove their point. Well if so, it got out of hand when they managed to bypass the iron dome..that was not part of the plan I think.

jmreire

Cheerful S wrote: »

Fear for Israel in all seriousness is Hezbollah. Reaction will be stronger scale wise. It’s well established Iran has smuggled advanced missiles to Lebanon and this will concern the IDF. There be serious blows inside Israel if they decide to join in. It’s doubtful, think Israel got endless supply of Iron Dome interceptors. The missile interceptors cost far more than the rockets they are taking down here coming out of Gaza. Israel stockpile of interceptors start running low, more rockets will get through the grid. If a new front opens up the Iron dome batteries and crew will have sleepless nights.

Yes. The very fact that the iron dome was even breached at all, and then in such nrs by the sheer volume of the rocket launches must have been a big surprise for the Israelis.

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

I'm familiar with how they work, and how they are made. The question is the supply of parts for their construction, especially the explosives in Gaza.

Factions in Gaza name the rockets with a nickname Qassam. There common materials. Smuggler will bring in what they don't have in huge supply.

jmreire

Cheerful S wrote: »

Factions in Gaza name the rockets with a nickname Qassam. There common materials. Smuggler will bring in what they don't have in huge supply.

Well, if they can smuggle in whatever they cannot scavenge, then Israel is in big trouble, for sure if the last few days are anything to go by.

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

Yes. The very fact that the iron dome was even breached at all, and then in such nrs by the sheer volume of the rocket launches must have been a big surprise for the Israelis.

Some rockets are getting through in the last day or so.

What the means for Israel defence?

Majority are still not getting past the grid, right now though.

Assume here the IDF would look for a ceasefire fairly soon, next few days, next week? Costly to keep knocking down the rockets. Only solution outside of that is a ground incursion.

Cheerful S

jmreire wrote: »

Well, if they can smuggle in whatever they cannot scavenge, then Israel is in big trouble, for sure if the last few days are anything to go by.

My eyes are on Lebanon. If you wanted to strike Israel at it weak points, this is the time. Hezbollah knows the reaction will also be severe if they involve themselves.

Hezbollah will not react until they get the go ahead from Iran.

I suspect but not 100 percent sure a ceasefire will happen. Benefits no side to continue this war. IDF wants to end Hamas control they will invade and then a ceasefire unlikely.

Fuascailteoir

jmreire wrote: »

I'm familiar with how they work, and how they are made. The question is the supply of parts for their construction, especially the explosives in Gaza.

Hamas recovered a massive amount of explosives from unexploded munitions after Israel dropped an endless supply on Gaza in 2014. For the actual casing, Hamas dug up water pipes that had been used to supply settlements in Gaza before the withdrawal. When you don't have much you use your ingenuity. They suffered a lot of casualties in repurposing the unexploded munitions. In addition to this Hamas used dive teams to recover shells and munitions from British war ships sunk over 100 years ago in 1917

Mimon

10 members of the same family killed by the Isaelis , two women and 8 children. Absolutely horrific.

No wonder the Israeli apologists are keeping their head down this morning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0515/1221736-israel-gaza/

namloc1980

Mimon wrote: »

10 members of the same family killed by the Isaelis , two women and 8 children. Absolutely horrific.

No wonder the Israeli apologists are keeping their head down this morning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0515/1221736-israel-gaza/

Don't worry, they'll be along later on with the usual victim blaming.

Signore Fancy Pants

Cheerful S wrote: »

My eyes are on Lebanon. If you wanted to strike Israel at it weak points, this is the time. Hezbollah knows the reaction will also be severe if they involve themselves.

Hezbollah will not react until they get the go ahead from Iran.

I suspect but not 100 percent sure a ceasefire will happen. Benefits no side to continue this war. IDF wants to end Hamas control they will invade and then a ceasefire unlikely.

While you are on the right track, if Hezbollah were going to hit Israel, they would have done it a few days ago.

Also, Hezbollah don't need to wait for Iran's approval to enter into conflict with Israel.

jmreire

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Hamas recovered a massive amount of explosives from unexploded munitions after Israel dropped an endless supply on Gaza in 2014. For the actual casing, Hamas dug up water pipes that had been used to supply settlements in Gaza before the withdrawal. When you don't have much you use your ingenuity. They suffered a lot of casualties in repurposing the unexploded munitions. In addition to this Hamas used dive teams to recover shells and munitions from British war ships sunk over 100 years ago in 1917

Yes, I understand very well what people in that situation are prepared to do..but an estimated 30000 rockets ready for action at the moment? ( New York Times)

Signore Fancy Pants

Cheerful S wrote: »

Some rockets are getting through in the last day or so.

What the means for Israel defence?

Majority are still not getting past the grid, right now though.

Assume here the IDF would look for a ceasefire fairly soon, next few days, next week? Costly to keep knocking down the rockets. Only solution outside of that is a ground incursion.

Small calibre projectiles regularly get through the Iron Dome. The radar works on the principle of identifying the trajectory of the missiles and intercepting based on the assessed impact site and the damage possibility.

Those sites are programmed into the guidance system and it fires according to those principles. Air defence isn't cheap, so the response can be prioritised.

Other missiles get through due to the Iron Dome being overwhelmed or running out of ammo. Of course, the Iron Dome is not always accurate.

Israel also use the 'Arrow' and 'David's Sling' air defence systems, DS being their latest and designed to be a replacement for the US Patriot system due to cost of projectiles.

However, DS was a massive failure on the Golan border and has not replaced the Patriot.

Signore Fancy Pants

Also, a ceasefire is a forgone conclusion at this stage. However, today is particularly symbolic for both parties.

We can expect a ramp up of Palestinian efforts today (maybe from Lebanon) unless capabilities have been degraded.

Mimon

Mimon wrote: »

10 members of the same family killed by the Isaelis , two women and 8 children. Absolutely horrific.

No wonder the Israeli apologists are keeping their head down this morning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0515/1221736-israel-gaza/

If the Iron Dome Defense System didn't work and there were no underground bunkers to shelter in, there would be many entire Israeli families murdered.

The only difference is that you wouldn't care to know about it.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

If the Iron Dome Defense System didn't work and there were no underground bunkers to shelter in, there would be many entire Israeli families murdered.

The only difference is that you wouldn't care to know about it.

Still no empathy for the oppressed people of Gaza. No empathy for 8 dead children even on a human level. Just "collateral damage" I guess. Horrific perspective.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Still no empathy for the oppressed people of Gaza. No empathy for 8 dead children even on a human level. Just "collateral damage" I guess. Horrific perspective.

Hamas could stop these deaths in a heartbeat, by simply stopping raining rockets down on Israeli soil.

Hamas doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians either. They consider it effective anti-Israeli propaganda.

If they did care about Palestinians, they would stop attacking Israel with rockets.

But Israel cannot sit back and just allow the rockets to rain down.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Hamas could stop these deaths in a heartbeat, by simply stopping raining rockets down on Israeli soil.

Hamas doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians either. They consider it effective anti-Israeli propaganda.

If they did care about Palestinians, they would stop attacking Israel with rockets.

But Israel cannot sit back and just allow the rockets to rain down.

I'll take that as a no then. You don't care about children being murdered in their homes. Sick.

And once again you are betraying your total lack of understanding of this issue, the history of it and why we are where we are. Your view is oppressed violence = bad, oppressor violence = good. Disgusting.

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hamas could stop these deaths in a heartbeat, by simply stopping raining rockets down on Israeli soil.

Hamas doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians either. They consider it effective anti-Israeli propaganda.

If they did care about Palestinians, they would stop attacking Israel with rockets.

But Israel cannot sit back and just allow the rockets to rain down.

Everything you said can be equally applied to Israel.

They are both as bad as each other. Both sides could end it and both sides could initiate efforts for longterm compromise and co-existence.

There is no future with conflict, only resolution.

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Everything you said can be equally applied to Israel.

They are both as bad as each other. Both sides could end it and both sides could initiate efforts for longterm compromise and co-existence.

There is no future with conflict, only resolution.

Israel did not start this wave of the conflict by unilaterally waking up one morning and deciding, "Hey, let's send 100 rockets into Gaza today".

Everything would have remained in relative peace, but Hamas decided to do as it always does: rain down a blizzard of rockets, killing Israeli civilians.

Hamas is and always will be the problem at this stage of the history.

And as always, Islamic Jihad is never a good organization to defend - either passively or indirectly.

yosser hughes

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Everything you said can be equally applied to Israel.

They are both as bad as each other. Both sides could end it and both sides could initiate efforts for longterm compromise and co-existence.

There is no future with conflict, only resolution.

What do you think Hamas' 'resolution' is? Do you know? What are their stated aims? Because if you don't know that, why are you commenting here?

namloc1980

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Everything you said can be equally applied to Israel.

They are both as bad as each other. Both sides could end it and both sides could initiate efforts for longterm compromise and co-existence.

There is no future with conflict, only resolution.

Israel has zero interest in a resolution. The continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank makes that clear. Every new house they build in the West Bank makes it harder to reach a resolution.

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Israel did not start this wave of the conflict by unilaterally waking up one morning and deciding, "Hey, let's send 100 rockets into Gaza today".

Everything would have remained in relative peace, but Hamas decided to do as it always does: rain down a blizzard of rockets, killing Israeli civilians.

Hamas is and always will be the problem at this stage of the history.

And as always, Islamic Jihad is never a good organization to defend - either passively or indirectly.

You again have no idea what you are talking about. Do you think oppressed people where over 700,000 of them were forcibly removed from the land in 1948/49 into ghettos in the West Bank and Gaza should just sit back and accept it? People being displaced from their homes in East Jerusalem in favour of Jewish settlers from Europe and America should take it lying down?

Danzy

2 differing cultures living and claiming one land.

It's always going to end in violence.


A civil war, even low key, is possible in pre 67 Israel.

Neither side can accommodate the other to a fraction of what they want and survive.

Doesn't matter who is right,