Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

RoyalCelt

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why don't we go all the back. The very first evidence of human activity in the area of Palestine/Israel is from humans migrating out of Africa around 100,000 years ago. Let's give the land back to them shall we?

Well if we're going to forgive and forget all the things done in the past by people no longer living surely we'll forgive Israel when they've taken over the place in 100 years.

We as humans clearly don't forget history at least from the last few thousand years. The main issue here is religion.

You have 2 groups who both believe in the same old testiment so they believe in the same god. But because their religions split from just Jews (into Christians, muslims and Jews) they are incompatible.

If there ever comes a day where people as a whole pack in religion there will be less conflict around the world.

jmreire

eskimohunt wrote: »

Israel did not start this wave of the conflict by unilaterally waking up one morning and deciding, "Hey, let's send 100 rockets into Gaza today".

Everything would have remained in relative peace, but Hamas decided to do as it always does: rain down a blizzard of rockets, killing Israeli civilians.

Hamas is and always will be the problem at this stage of the history.

And as always, Islamic Jihad is never a good organization to defend - either passively or indirectly.

No, they ( the Israelis ) did not just wake up one fine morning and decide to send 100 Rockets into Gaza. It started a few weeks ago when Palestinian Residents of Sheikh Jarrah were ordered to vacate their houses due to a law which allowed Jews the right to reclaim Jewish property that was lost in the 1948 war. This right however did not apply to Israeli Palestinian citizens. Next, the Israelis limited Muslim access to the Al Aqsa Mosque during the holy month of Ramadan, leading to clashes and disturbances. This was not helped by Jewish ultra nationalists marching through Sheik Jarrah..which further stitrred the pot. Then Israeli military entered the Mosque firing rubber bullets and tear gas to disperse the crowds. Hamas retaliated by firing rockets into Israel.

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Israel did not start this wave of the conflict by unilaterally waking up one morning and deciding, "Hey, let's send 100 rockets into Gaza today".

Everything would have remained in relative peace, but Hamas decided to do as it always does: rain down a blizzard of rockets, killing Israeli civilians.

Hamas is and always will be the problem at this stage of the history.

And as always, Islamic Jihad is never a good organization to defend - either passively or indirectly.

I'm afraid your own bias appears to cloud any type of reasonable discourse, maybe Facebook would be a better outlet for you. "This wave of the conflict" means absolutely nothing.

You don't seem to be aware or maybe you are completely ignorant to nuance, religious tensions and historical context. This is a very complex environment and not one dimensional, its not black and white, its very much grey.

I am an impartial observer and can see that Israel conducts direct and indirect oppression of Palestinians, Arab Israelis and a dislike to "other jews".

However, I can also see Palestinians conducting and indeed initiating low level friction and conflict on Israelis.

They are both to blame but Israel as the dominant military force is the one required to show restraint and de-escalate...which they have refused to do.

RoyalCelt

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Everything you said can be equally applied to Israel.

They are both as bad as each other. Both sides could end it and both sides could initiate efforts for longterm compromise and co-existence.

There is no future with conflict, only resolution.

Agreed. Both as bad as each other yet Irish people will row in behind Palestinians. I guess it's because they fare the worst and it's something to relate to throughout our history but apart from that we have nothing in common with Palestinians who are more like the Brits through history and we're more like the Jews.

namloc1980

jmreire wrote: »

No, they ( the Israelis ) did not just wake up one fine morning and decide to send 100 Rockets into Gaza. It started a few weeks ago when Palestinian Residents of Sheikh Jarrah were ordered to vacate their houses due to a law which allowed Jews the right to reclaim Jewish property that was lost in the 1948 war. This right however did not apply to Israeli Palestinian citizens. Next, the Israelis limited Muslim access to the Al Aqsa Mosque during the holy month of Ramadan, leading to clashes and disturbances. This was not helped by Jewish ultra nationalists marching through Sheik Jarrah..which further stitrred the pot. Then Israeli military entered the Mosque firing rubber bullets and tear gas to disperse the crowds. Hamas retaliated by firing rockets into Israel.

The Israeli apologists only start at the bolded part. They don't care about the recent context or indeed the wider issues at all.

namloc1980

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Agreed. Both as bad as each other yet Irish people will row in behind Palestinians. I guess it's because they fare the worst and it's something to relate to throughout our history but apart from that we have nothing in common with Palestinians who are more like the Brits through history and we're more like the Jews.

Interesting perspective when the oppressed and the oppressor are deemed to be the same. One has overwhelming military power and has for decades occupied the territories of the other and displaced over 700,000 of them into ghettos in the West Bank and Gaza as well into refugee camps.

Signore Fancy Pants

yosser hughes wrote: »

What do you think Hamas' 'resolution' is? Do you know? What are their stated aims? Because if you don't know that, why are you commenting here?

Ha! I can assure you, I am not out of my depth within this sphere if that is your suggestion. Quite the opposite in fact.

Signore Fancy Pants

namloc1980 wrote: »

Israel has zero interest in a resolution. The continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank makes that clear. Every new house they build in the West Bank makes it harder to reach a resolution.

I agree.

antgal23

Essential reading for all the experts

Google: Haavara Agreement

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Israel did not start this wave of the conflict by unilaterally waking up one morning and deciding, "Hey, let's send 100 rockets into Gaza today".

Everything would have remained in relative peace, but Hamas decided to do as it always does: rain down a blizzard of rockets, killing Israeli civilians.

Hamas is and always will be the problem at this stage of the history.

And as always, Islamic Jihad is never a good organization to defend - either passively or indirectly.

Lies lies and yet more lies.

igCorcaigh

Barrage of rockets towards Tel Aviv just now.
Claimed to be in response to last night's killing of a family in Gaza.

Danzy

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Well if we're going to forgive and forget all the things done in the past by people no longer living surely we'll forgive Israel when they've taken over the place in 100 years.

We as humans clearly don't forget history at least from the last few thousand years. The main issue here is religion.

You have 2 groups who both believe in the same old testiment so they believe in the same god. But because their religions split from just Jews (into Christians, muslims and Jews) they are incompatible.

If there ever comes a day where people as a whole pack in religion there will be less conflict around the world.

The difference is cultural as much as religious. Israel is a gay Mecca, subconscious pun.

Homosexuality is punishable by death in Gaza, if the neighbours and family don't kill you first.

Israel is a wild place on Saturday night, party and casual sex.

Honour killing is legal in Gaza.

Incompatible to each other in any proximity.

I feel for the Palestinians. I despise Hamas but accept that Israel could care less who is in power there.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

No, they ( the Israelis ) did not just wake up one fine morning and decide to send 100 Rockets into Gaza. It started a few weeks ago when Palestinian Residents of Sheikh Jarrah were ordered to vacate their houses due to a law which allowed Jews the right to reclaim Jewish property that was lost in the 1948 war. This right however did not apply to Israeli Palestinian citizens. Next, the Israelis limited Muslim access to the Al Aqsa Mosque during the holy month of Ramadan, leading to clashes and disturbances. This was not helped by Jewish ultra nationalists marching through Sheik Jarrah..which further stitrred the pot. Then Israeli military entered the Mosque firing rubber bullets and tear gas to disperse the crowds. Hamas retaliated by firing rockets into Israel.

True, there are tenant-landlord conflicts over Sheikh Jarrah - but that does not justify Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel (over 850 rockets alone on 12 May, and a further 200 that landed on Gazan people).

Israel did limit access to the Al Aqsa mosque. However, 70,000 attended the final Friday Prayers of Ramadan and, after the prayers were done, Palestinians threw rocks and other missiles at Israeli police forces. The Israeli police force had no choice but to defend itself with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Hamas then demanded that Israel remove its forces from the Al Aqsa mosque by 6pm on the 10 May. Hamas has no right to threaten Israel with a deadline such as this. As expected, the deadline passed and, within minutes, hundreds of rockets were fired all throughout Israel.

Israel responded accordingly.

Let's not also forget that Hamas deliberately fires rockets from densely populated civilian areas, knowing full well that, if Israel were to respond, it would lead to civilian casualties that they can profit from as propaganda. Hamas is the one indiscriminately killing, or trying to at least, Israel citizens - women and children, too. There is video footage of this all throughout social media, with local people and those in apartments shouting "Allah hu Akhbar".

So you pick and choose which parts of the story you prefer. Whilst the skeleton of the story you gave is broadly accurate, the meat on the bone was missing - which I've kindly provided it above.

Cheerful S

eskimohunt wrote: »

Hamas could stop these deaths in a heartbeat, by simply stopping raining rockets down on Israeli soil.

Hamas doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians either. They consider it effective anti-Israeli propaganda.

If they did care about Palestinians, they would stop attacking Israel with rockets.

But Israel cannot sit back and just allow the rockets to rain down.

Wave of violence was started by Isreal settlers and Israel policy of expulsion is causing problems in normally peaceful areas.. Can’t blame the Palestinians for this round. Families were to be forcibly removed out of their homes in Palestinian neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah in East Jerusalem to make way for new settlements for Jewish families. Protests started eventually, turned violent when the youth defence of Israeli army turned up, started bullying the people in the West bank. The Isreali forces then entered the Al-Aqsa Mosque firing smoke grenades and battering people and making arrests. Then the factions in Gaza reacted to all the mayhem going on..

cameramonkey

It's obvious that most of this trouble is being fermented by Zionist groups who want no non-Jews about the place. All the killings and the rioting has their fingerprints all over it. They want intercommunal tension so as to clense Palestinians from where they live.

horseshoe22

Excellent news that both the EU and the White House have given support to Israel in their right to defend their population from the terrorist groups in Gaza.

Only the foolish and gullible sorts would think otherwise.

namloc1980

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Excellent news that both the EU and the White House have given support to Israel in their right to defend their population from the terrorist groups in Gaza.

Only the foolish and gullible sorts would think otherwise.

You haven't a clue bud, not a notion. Are you delighted that children are being murdered in their homes?

"Israel has a right to defend itself" is such a stupid statement.

What country doesn't have the right to defend itself? It's like saying, "all bachelors are unmarried".

The fact something as axiomatic as this has to be said is astonishing, quite frankly.

All I'll add is that Israel is extremely effective at defending herself, and thank goodness for that; a tiny country surrounded by a jihadi cesspit of death.

Mad_maxx

markodaly wrote: »

Go on.... why is this, and try to provide an explanation that is not Anti-Semitic...

#Shouldbegood

thats a leap


movies are made about many conflicts , why not this one ?

Stephen Spielberg did touch on the morality of the Israeli states response to the Munich olympics murders and allowed the story to touch on the mid east conflict , the lead character ( played by Eric Bana ) was clearly conflicted about the whole thing , I dont recall Spielberg getting criticism for his nuanced message but Spielberg had the stature to make such a movie and i dont mean because he is jewish , He is just extremely influential , others probably do not have the influence to make such a movie

horseshoe22

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Excellent news that both the EU and the White House have given support to Israel in their right to defend their population from the terrorist groups in Gaza.

Only the foolish and gullible sorts would think otherwise.

Totally disappointed in the EU. The US, you would expect given its genocidal history.

cameramonkey

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0515/1221736-israel-gaza/

More Israeli targeting for women and children. In this case, their bombs killed a family of ten, eight children and two women.
Seems to be part of a wider policy to target women and children so as to terrorise the whole population. These families are paying the price for Zionist groups trying to stir up tensions in the area.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0515/1221736-israel-gaza/

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

Totally disappointed in the EU. The US, you would expect given its genocidal history.

You are disappointed that the EU isn't siding with an extremist Jihadist organization that supports Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, and ISIS - and who have an openly genocidal modus operandi against Jewish people?

Really!?

Mad_maxx

Cheerful S wrote: »

PIJ ( Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s faction) is well known to be heavily funded by Iran. The leadership reguarly meets the IRGC and Iranian leadership. Hamas funding mainly comes from Qatar and Egypt (covertly here) Hamas does have ties to Iran. Hamas is not beholden to Iran like the PIJ faction would be

I thought Hamas were sunni ?

seems odd they would look to Iran ?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Israel has a right to defend itself" is such a stupid statement.

What country doesn't have the right to defend itself? It's like saying, "all bachelors are unmarried".

The fact something as axiomatic as this has to be said is astonishing, quite frankly.

All I'll add is that Israel is extremely effective at defending herself, and thank goodness for that; a tiny country surrounded by a jihadi cesspit of death.

Lol. This is the same Israel that cosies up to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain et. al?

cameramonkey

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/1393498738497368066

Irish government calling out Israel for their attacks on children. Demolishing their lies about it being collatoral damage.

Cheerful S

eskimohunt wrote: »

True, there are tenant-landlord conflicts over Sheikh Jarrah - but that does not justify Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel (over 850 rockets alone on 12 May, and a further 200 that landed on Gazan people).

Israel did limit access to the Al Aqsa mosque. However, 70,000 attended the final Friday Prayers of Ramadan and, after the prayers were done, Palestinians threw rocks and other missiles at Israeli police forces. The Israeli police force had no choice but to defend itself with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Hamas then demanded that Israel remove its forces from the Al Aqsa mosque by 6pm on the 10 May. Hamas has no right to threaten Israel with a deadline such as this. As expected, the deadline passed and, within minutes, hundreds of rockets were fired all throughout Israel.

Israel responded accordingly.

Let's not also forget that Hamas deliberately fires rockets from densely populated civilian areas, knowing full well that, if Israel were to respond, it would lead to civilian casualties that they can profit from as propaganda. Hamas is the one indiscriminately killing, or trying to at least, Israel citizens - women and children, too. There is video footage of this all throughout social media, with local people and those in apartments shouting "Allah hu Akhbar".

So you pick and choose which parts of the story you prefer. Whilst the skeleton of the story you gave is broadly accurate, the meat on the bone was missing - which I've kindly provided it above.

Majority of details outlined are correct, yet you forget the West bank is essentially an occupied zone. Israeli forces bully and intimidate the people who showed up for a peaceful protest about the expulsion. Would western governments tolerate a similar affair example Armed Arab soldiers arrived at Vatican city churches, went in and attacked peaceful Christen protestors and making arrests?

Why do you find it acceptable for the Israeli defence forces to do this?

What gives the Israel government the right to remove these people from their homes to make way for people who are Jewish?
Do you not see that’s ethnic cleansing and essentially a racist policy?

Let's at least welcome the destruction of disgustingly evil people taken out by the Israeli Defense Force over the past couple of days:

• Mohammed Abdullah Fayyad - a Hamas Commander
• Three high-ranking Islamic Jihad commanders
• Death of 5 other commanders (confirmed by Hamas themselves)
• Bassem Issa - one of the leading Hamas Commanders

Scumbag Jihadis - no better than ISIS fighters; wiped from the Earth.

Whilst we can all mourn the loss of genuinely innocent civilian life, we can unite in support that this evil scum has been eliminated.

igCorcaigh

https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1393527449024012293

Danzy

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I thought Hamas were sunni ?

seems odd they would look to Iran ?

Enemies often work together, even between bouts of killing each other. Pragmatic approach and it might be to mutual benefit.

Didn't mean to put red thumb in.

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

Lol. This is the same Israel that cosies up to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain et. al?

My enemy's enemy is my friend, springs to mind.