Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hamas could stop these deaths in a heartbeat, by simply stopping raining rockets down on Israeli soil.

Hamas doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinians either. They consider it effective anti-Israeli propaganda.

If they did care about Palestinians, they would stop attacking Israel with rockets.

But Israel cannot sit back and just allow the rockets to rain down.

Another post blithely ignoring that again, days ago, both Hamas and Egypt attempted to broker a ceasefire and Israel said to **** off.

Sue de Nimes

Rabbi Sacks produced a video a couple of years ago on the link between antisemitism and Israel. I'm not endorsing everything he says, but suggesting people hear another view on this topic.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't answer emotional questions.

If you can frame the question more objectively, then I'll give it a stab.

How is that an emotional question?

It's a simple rational question that you don't want to incriminate yourself by answering.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

What is your view of the forced displacement of 700,000 Palestinian people in 1948/49 by the emerging Israeli state? Or the importation of Jews with no connection to the area whatsoever from Europe, America and Africa to colonise the West Bank, thus making a peaceful resolution all but impossible? Or that Gaza is in effect an open air prison and the Palestinian people are denied a port and airport to try to build some sort of functioning economy?

What do you think of the Nation State laws that elevate Jews above all others (including non Jewish Israeli citizens)?

Europeans migrated to develop what would become the United States. Often, migration has been used as a means to develop a country. That doesn't render the country a non-sovereign state.

As for 1948-49, the Arabs rejected a viable two-state solution - hoping to eliminate the Jews from the British mandate zone. As a result of their incessant greed, they lost the war - and with it, the peace.

As for the West Bank, that was under the control of Jordan until June 1967. Jordan, and five other countries, lost that war - and so Israel was within her rights to occupy the zone used for military purposes.

The one good example you raised was Gaza. In 2005, Israel pulled all settlements from Gaza and what was the Gazan response? To destroy what was there and to turn the zone into an enormous launch pad for unguided missiles.

The one time that Israel withdraw was the one time that the mask of the Palestinians slipped. I have no doubt that, if Israel were to de-settle the West Bank, that it, too, would become another launch pad.

Donald Trump

At least the UK came out this week and issued a finding that those killed at Ballymurphy were not terrorist combatants and were in fact wholly innocent


I wonder what the chances would be of Israel doing the same at some point in the future for the innocent women and children they will be killing this weekend?

igCorcaigh

Overheal wrote: »

Another post blithely ignoring that again, days ago, both Hamas and Egypt attempted to broker a ceasefire and Israel said to **** off.

Israel isn't going to waste this opportunity to destroy infrastructure in Gaza.

It happens every few years. It has to, as it is a logical consequence of Israeli policy of never letting the Palestinian people develop statehood, or anything that could really threaten the Israeli project. These sporadic cycles of escalation and de-escalation are factored in.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1393571636759212034?s=20

igCorcaigh

That is some amount of smoke across the skyline of Gaza.

batman75

Israel has no right have to settlements in the west bank. Israel is an apartheid state. It is engaged in ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. It is illegally entering a part of another country ie Gaza. It is preventing another country from having a port or airport. Israel wants to establish a supremacist Jewish state from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. There is simply no defending Israel when it responds in excessive fashion. Nothing will change while America sides with Israel. It is really hard to see a positive future for the people of Palestine. The Israel that Eskimohunt and Horshehoe stoutly defend has effectively created an open air prison in Gaza. That the world allows this to happen is shameful.

igCorcaigh

Donald Trump wrote: »

At least the UK came out this week and issued a finding that those killed at Ballymurphy were not terrorist combatants and were in fact wholly innocent


I wonder what the chances would be of Israel doing the same at some point in the future for the innocent women and children they will be killing this weekend?

They already have, sort of. They admitted that there *may* have been civilians killed in last night's airstrike.
(Children are probably civilians alright).

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You are spending more time constructing a structure of how I formulate my arguments, rather than actually engaging in the points I deliver.

Trust me, I'm well aware of Coveney's position and authority, and my sarcastic interpretation of his tweet is still with that in mind.

The same principle applies to your other, rather patronizing post, where you almost elevate your status as the font of all knowledge on the matter, rather than critically engaging with any of my core points.

You don't have any relevent points that are worthy of engagement. You are devoid of the concept of there being 4 sides at play here, wrapped within a complex geopolitical realm.

Your comprehension of the situation is limited to surface level Wikipedia standard comments.

You have not demonstrated any substantial knowledge of the subject yet believe you have an understanding. All you display is "Hamas bad"..."Israel good"..."Hamas started it, they bold boyz".

To engage in debate with you would require you to have latitude for broader thinking, you don't want to do that as you see Israel as the only victim.

I don't have ultimate knowledge, however I do have ongoing extensive professional experience and relevent academic qualifications in this sphere which would surpass most here. I don't read Twitter and suddenly have a reactive singular opinion.

For balance, which may be getting lost. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and I don't agree with their narrative or their operations. However, I do understand their motivation and their "why".

I also believe that Israel have an obligation to protect their interests.

Hamas have completely regressed any hope that Palestinians as a whole have of future regional peace and security but Israel is not an innocent victim here, now, in the past or in the future.

Housefree

Ireland is a serious battleground for Israel because of the Occupied Territories Bill.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Territories_Bill

So I'd take any of the Israeli shills on here with a pinch of salt they will justify anything, respect for human rights is just a 'left wing bent'

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

igCorcaigh

The IDF are saying that the tower housing media outlets (and homes) that was knocked earlier on, was home to Hamas intelligence operatives.

Donald Trump

igCorcaigh wrote: »

They already have, sort of. They admitted that there *may* have been civilians killed in last night's airstrike.
(Children are probably civilians alright).

You can be fairly sure that any adult male who was killed will be branded a Hamas militant.




They will admit that civilians *may* have been killed ... but will qualify that by blaming Hamas rockets falling short

Overheal

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Thanks for that, an example of clinical targeting, note how buildings a couple of yards away with residents remain untouched.
Compare this to the indiscriminate rocket fire from the terrorists

If the targeting is so clinical why did they wipe out the associated press, Al Jazeera, a refugee camp, a hospital, several entire families and dozens of children?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Same old, same old.

Where are the photos of Israeli victims / deceased over the past 2-weeks / 20-years?

Where are the photos of the victims of Hamas rockets that killed Palestinians in Gaza?

Photos are very emotive - and are deployed for propagandistic reasons, hence why you never see photos of the destruction wrought by Hamas on a personal level from the opposite side.

You go ahead and post them. All 9 Israelis killed in this conflict against the 200 or so men women and children slain that were Palestinians. Go ahead. Nobody is stopping you so your whataboutism is pointless.

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

You have not demonstrated any substantial knowledge of the subject yet believe you have an understanding. All you display is "Hamas bad"..."Israel good"..."Hamas started it, they bold boyz".

I haven't seen anything substantial from your posts at all, with respect.

All I'm reading, time and time again, is how smart you think you are compared to other people. :rolleyes:

namloc1980

eskimohunt wrote: »

Europeans migrated to develop what would become the United States. Often, migration has been used as a means to develop a country. That doesn't render the country a non-sovereign state.

Complete nonsense here and you ignored the premise of the question, once again. :rolleyes:

eskimohunt wrote: »

As for 1948-49, the Arabs rejected a viable two-state solution - hoping to eliminate the Jews from the British mandate zone. As a result of their incessant greed, they lost the war - and with it, the peace.

The "viable" solution required the people living in the proposed Israel to up sticks and move. Would you have done that? Your understanding of the end of British Palestine and what happened is very very weak. Jewish terrorist groups slaughtered Arabs in a number of massacres and forced those people out. You seem to be unware, or simply ignoring the actual history here.

eskimohunt wrote: »

As for the West Bank, that was under the control of Jordan until June 1967. Jordan, and five other countries, lost that war - and so Israel was within her rights to occupy the zone used for military purposes.

No it wasn't. The occupation is illegal under international law. FFS even the United States voted with the UN Security Council Resolution 242 in 1967 requesting the withdrawal by Israel from occupied territories. Once again your lack of understanding of this issue is glaring.

eskimohunt wrote: »

The one good example you raised was Gaza. In 2005, Israel pulled all settlements from Gaza and what was the Gazan response? To destroy what was there and to turn the zone into an enormous launch pad for unguided missiles.

Lies. Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was to further Israeli cause and to make a one state solution impossible. You need to understand this more.

Israel has from 1967 refused to allow Palestinians to develop a port or airport to develop their own economy. They are being kept in utter oppression. And when the oppressed fight back the Israelis cry foul.

eskimohunt wrote: »

The one time that Israel withdraw was the one time that the mask of the Palestinians slipped. I have no doubt that, if Israel were to de-settle the West Bank, that it, too, would become another launch pad.

This is just a load of utter tripe. I'm afraid you are once again showing your utter lack of understanding of this issue. Strong opinions but no understanding leads to the types of stuff you are posting, total fantastical nonsense.

Donald Trump

eskimohunt wrote: »

Europeans migrated to develop what would become the United States. Often, migration has been used as a means to develop a country. That doesn't render the country a non-sovereign state.

Sure the Germans migrated to develop what would become Poland.

And here we are, always hearing a biased version about how those Germans were in the wrong! Seems like all they were doing was migrating to develop areas. Maybe we shouldn't be giving them a bad rap for anything they did?

cameramonkey

Interesting thread on the lies the Israelis spread about human shields.


https://twitter.com/sarahleah1/status/1392479694382043141

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have a distinct and notable Left-wing bent.

And dare I add, that some of the actions by the Irish wing of Amnesty, led by that ghastly creature, Colm O'Gorman, are highly questionable to say the least - and certainly not grounded in evidence or science. But that's an argument for another day.

Just because an organization states something, doesn't make it true.

And political language such as "apartheid state" exemplifies precisely the lack of objectivity these organizations have in the matter.

Gaslighting and ad hominems.

Overheal

Housefree wrote: »

Ireland is a serious battleground for Israel because of the Occupied Territories Bill.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Territories_Bill

So I'd take any of the Israeli shills on here with a pinch of salt they will justify anything, respect for human rights is just a 'left wing bent'

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

I hope that bill gets passed. Ireland occasionally is the leader for the world in some respects. I remember the smoking ban took off after Ireland was the first to give it a go, it’s been a very health positive change the world over.

gameoverdude

@Overheal. Off topic I know, but I agree with you on Ireland being quite forward thinking now(quite a bit I don't agree with in this country). Plus plastic bag levy, gay marriage...one little voice can make a difference(back on topic).

J Mysterio

Rallies in Dublin, Cork and Galway in solidarity with Palestians.
March in London hears calls for action by the UK government to end violence in the region

igCorcaigh

Yes, lots of protests across Europe today.
Just back from one in Cork (large enough turnout despite the weather).
Scuffles in Berlin.

Here's a live stream of Paris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YH0gn8P09M

namloc1980

Part of Ashkelon oil refinery on southern Israel is ablaze after being hit by Hamas rockets with heavy black smoke coming from it.

.

Lougho

From the river to the sea....

igCorcaigh

Lougho wrote: »

From the river to the sea....

...Palestine will be free!

Overheal

namloc1980 wrote: »

Part of Ashkelon oil refinery on southern Israel is ablaze after being hit by Hamas rockets with heavy black smoke coming from it.

.

Thoughts and prayers to the hydrocarbons wiped out

Lougho

A situation I cannot even comment on this thread. Sickens and angers me in equal measures.

Combat Zionism- Your Anti Semetic.