Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

namloc1980

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed, but then, let's say the international community puts pressure on Israel by boycotting produce or whatever means, and then Israel allows free travel which leads to Hammas planting car bombs which blow up synagogues in Tel Aviv.
We are back to square one and Israel won't go for that option again any time soon.

Hamas need to be dealt with after Israel are stopped indiscriminately killing civilians.

Just to be clear, we're only talking about free movement on the West Bank without military occupation and oppression. Israel will NEVER allow non Israeli Palestinians free movement across Israel itself.

Donald Trump

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Oh, there are definitely some unsavoury tones in some Israeli political voices. I don't think they are representative of the general population, but they are there.

By definition, a political voice is a representation of the general population - especially if it is someone in the government. You can have an odd extreme populist nutjob who gets elected but they don't get into a position of power unless they represent an accepted view.


Gemma O'Doherty might run for election and actually get elected, but you won't see her as minister for anything.

Itssoeasy

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Oh, there are definitely some unsavoury tones in some Israeli political voices. I don't think they are representative of the general population, but they are there.

I remember listening to an Israeli radio show during the 2014 conflict, where a speaker, unchallenged, talked about how Israeli lives were not to be compared to "some Ahmed".

On the other hand, there is a Left movement in Israel who oppose the government policy, but do not get so much exposure on international media.

Unsavoury is probably a better description of them then enlightening. I mean countries in the 20th century have been rightly condemned for using some of the same phrases against the Jews in Europe but it seems high ranking politicians in the state of Israel feel they were okay to use.

And the situation will never be resolved because both sides are bedded in. We have 70 years nearly of mindset to overcome and that won’t happen quickly. I mean hamas don’t even have to do any recruiting because whenever Israel use disproportionate force( and they should be allowed to use force to defend themselves btw) and some young lad loses a family member, then how exactly does that help change the tide ?

igCorcaigh

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed, but then, let's say the international community puts pressure on Israel by boycotting produce or whatever means, and then Israel allows free travel which leads to Hammas planting car bombs which blow up synagogues in Tel Aviv.
We are back to square one and Israel won't go for that option again any time soon.

Hamas need to be dealt with after Israel are stopped indiscriminately killing civilians.

No. Hamas, as much as I abhor them, are the elected government of Gaza. By the population, as they see fit.
Also, it is Israel who are in control, militarily and economically of that region.

The conflict is happening again and again, only because Israel uses a military solution to its problems.
They are quite happy to see this situation continue, decade after decade.

And sure, why not?
Their doing well. The odd rocket comes in, the bomb Gaza, repeat. The Israeli public votes for them.
What's to lose?

It's almost like Hamas rockets are a political gift to the government of Israel.

I'm saying there is another way.

igCorcaigh

Donald Trump wrote: »

By definition, a political voice is a representation of the general population.

It could have been some commentator, I don't know. Just someone on the radio.

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can have an odd extreme populist nutjob who gets elected but they don't get into a position of power unless they represent an accepted view.

OK, Donald Trump
No offence, and I agree, just thought that was a bit funny!

tom1ie

igCorcaigh wrote: »

No. Hamas, as much as I abhor them, are the elected government of Gaza. By the population, as they see fit.
Also, it is Israel who are in control, militarily and economically of that region.

The conflict is happening again and again, only because Israel uses a military solution to its problems.
They are quite happy to see this situation continue, decade after decade.

And sure, why not?
Their doing well. The odd rocket comes in, the bomb Gaza, repeat. The Israeli public votes for them.
What's to lose?

It's almost like Hamas rockets are a political gift to the government of Israel.

I'm saying there is another way.

Hmmmmm.
So are you saying Palestinians voting for Hamas (do they have a choice?) is giving Israel the excuse it needs to bomb the crap outta them?

tayto lover

Do the Israeli supporters really expect the land grabbing to be allowed carry on unabated without some kind of response from the Palestinians?
I don’t see any of them talking about the events that started this present trouble and I’m wondering why.
Everyone had the right defend themselves surely.

Donald Trump

igCorcaigh wrote: »

It could have been some commentator, I don't know. Just someone on the radio.

Ok. Sorry. I thought you were referring to the tweet a few posts up with alleged quotes from Israeli ministers

namloc1980

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Unsavoury is probably a better description of them then enlightening. I mean countries in the 20th century have been rightly condemned for using some of the same phrases against the Jews in Europe but it seems high ranking politicians in the state of Israel feel they were okay to use.

And the situation will never be resolved because both sides are bedded in. We have 70 years nearly of mindset to overcome and that won’t happen quickly. I mean hamas don’t even have to do any recruiting because whenever Israel use disproportionate force( and they should be allowed to use force to defend themselves btw) and some young lad loses a family member, then how exactly does that help change the tide ?

Aside from during these violent times, even when things are "calmer", for an average Gazan all they see is massive unemployment, closed borders, no future for their kids and Israel blockading them and not allowing an airport or seaport to be developed to help economic growth, while terrorizing them from time to time with air strikes. Put yourself in their shoes, and you'd probably hate Israel too.

igCorcaigh

tom1ie wrote: »

Hmmmmm.
So are you saying Palestinians voting for Hamas (do they have a choice?) is giving Israel the excuse it needs to bomb the crap outta them?

The opposite.
The more Israel forces the Palestinians into extreme action, the better it enforces Israel's policy.

tom1ie

namloc1980 wrote: »

Aside from during these violent times, even when things are "calmer", for an average Gazan all they see is massive unemployment, closed borders, no future for their kids and Israel blockading them and not allowing an airport or seaport to be developed to help economic growth, while terrorizing them from time to time with air strikes. Put yourself in their shoes, and you'd probably hate Israel too.

With all that in mind, is there any other political voice representing Palestinians other than Hamas?

namloc1980

tom1ie wrote: »

With all that in mind, is there any other political voice representing Palestinians other than Hamas?

Abbas and the Fatah party are the main faction on the West Bank although the Palestinians there are unhappy with him as there lives are no better really.

igCorcaigh

tom1ie wrote: »

With all that in mind, is there any other political voice representing Palestinians other than Hamas?

I'm sure there are plenty.
I'd like to know more about that situation myself.

Also, Palestinian people live in West Bank, and even within Israel too.
Do Arab Israelis identify as Palestinian?

I'm not sure.
I'm not an expert on this by any means.

namloc1980

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty.
I'd like to know more about that situation myself.

Also, Palestinian people live in West Bank, and even within Israel too.
Do Arab Israelis identify as Palestinian?

I'm not sure.
I'm not an expert on this by any means.

Most of them identify as Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

igCorcaigh

namloc1980 wrote: »

Abbas and the Fatah party are the mason faction on the West Bank although the Palestinians there are unhappy with him as there lives are no better really.

Not the best leadership at all; I remember the brief civil war between the two.

tom1ie

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty.
I'd like to know more about that situation myself.

Also, Palestinian people live in West Bank, and even within Israel too.
Do Arab Israelis identify as Palestinian?

I'm not sure.
I'm not an expert on this by any means.

Yeah me neither.

horseshoe22

Israel Border Police seized 15 Molotov cocktails on Saturday that were being hidden in a Lod mosque in preparation to be used in riots later that night, officials stated.
Police initially began questioning the imam of the mosque in question, before searching the grounds of the place of worship, where they found 15 Molotov cocktails, a gallon of gas hidden on the roof and nearby were rocks ready to throw.

No surprises there,

brings back memories of Belfast, priests and the IRA

Birds of a Feather and all that.

branie2

They're on the brink of war

votecounts

I know it may already been said but does Israel think its justifiable to rob land off the Palestinians. On a side note, had Israel been smart it would have given a large quantity of covid jabs to people in gaza, would have earned them a lot of goodwill across the world, assuming people would take them as there would be rumours that they were poisonous.
I see people making the point why Ireland cares about this situation, its that most of us see similarities with palestinians and they way Nationalists were treated up north. Nothing to do with anti semitism or any other crap, just don't like innocent children, people being murdered, full stop

J Mysterio

branie2 wrote: »

They're on the brink of war

It's not war when only one side has an army. There may be another word for it...

thomas 123

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Israel Border Police seized 15 Molotov cocktails on Saturday that were being hidden in a Lod mosque in preparation to be used in riots later that night, officials stated.
Police initially began questioning the imam of the mosque in question, before searching the grounds of the place of worship, where they found 15 Molotov cocktails, a gallon of gas hidden on the roof and nearby were rocks ready to throw.

No surprises there,

brings back memories of Belfast, priests and the IRA

Birds of a Feather and all that.

15 Molotov cocktails, few hundred rockets that were never going to hit much(sky dome).

Vs

Smart bombs and tanks, reserve mobilization.

namloc1980

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Israel Border Police seized 15 Molotov cocktails on Saturday that were being hidden in a Lod mosque in preparation to be used in riots later that night, officials stated.
Police initially began questioning the imam of the mosque in question, before searching the grounds of the place of worship, where they found 15 Molotov cocktails, a gallon of gas hidden on the roof and nearby were rocks ready to throw.

No surprises there,

brings back memories of Belfast, priests and the IRA

Birds of a Feather and all that.

Any comment on the violence from Israeli Jews against Arabs in Lod, Haifa and other cities for the last week, or are you totally blinkered altogether?

Bobtheman

Do you think if Israel had lost the war in 1948 the Palestinians would have had a better life? Palestine would have been carved up by the nations surrounding it.
All of which are autocratic regimes who torture and slaughter their own people regularly.
That doesnt excuse how the Israelis treat Palestinians today.
Nor does it excuse Arab regimes who don't give citizenship to Palestinian refugees.
They ain't being left back into Israel after 80 years.

An Ri rua

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Israel Border Police seized 15 Molotov cocktails on Saturday that were being hidden in a Lod mosque in preparation to be used in riots later that night, officials stated.
Police initially began questioning the imam of the mosque in question, before searching the grounds of the place of worship, where they found 15 Molotov cocktails, a gallon of gas hidden on the roof and nearby were rocks ready to throw.

No surprises there,

brings back memories of Belfast, priests and the IRA

Birds of a Feather and all that.

Your gross broadsweep generalisations bring back familiar jaded memories too....

99nsr125

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't understand why this was flagged it's the most succint appraisal of the conflict I've ever seen

Donald Trump

horseshoe22 wrote: »

Israel Border Police seized 15 Molotov cocktails on Saturday that were being hidden in a Lod mosque in preparation to be used in riots later that night, officials stated.
Police initially began questioning the imam of the mosque in question, before searching the grounds of the place of worship, where they found 15 Molotov cocktails, a gallon of gas hidden on the roof and nearby were rocks ready to throw.

No surprises there,

brings back memories of Belfast, priests and the IRA

Birds of a Feather and all that.

Ah sure wasn't that priest in Ballymurphy a prolific sharpshooter for the 'Ra?


According to the UK until earlier this week that is.

Donald Trump

wes wrote: »

This is utterly ****ing vile:
https://twitter.com/theIMEU/status/1392629584458309635?s=20

The silence from Western nations condemning the above is deafening and will be remembered by the people the world over, when they hypocritically condemn Palestinians, while aiding and abetting murderous outrages carried by Israel.

They'll get away with it. The same as they always do.


Sure we'll hear that those two little kids were trained Hamas assassins and therefore legitimate targets.

Mimon

branie2 wrote: »

They're on the brink of war

Can't be a war when it's one of the most powerful militaries in the world vs a few lads with cobbled together weapons.

The people who will suffer will be the Palestinian people crammed into their prison of Gaza.

Timberrrrrrrr

votecounts wrote: »

I know it may already been said but does Israel think its justifiable to rob land off the Palestinians. On a side note, had Israel been smart it would have given a large quantity of covid jabs to people in gaza, would have earned them a lot of goodwill across the world, assuming people would take them as there would be rumours that they were poisonous.
I see people making the point why Ireland cares about this situation, its that most of us see similarities with palestinians and they way Nationalists were treated up north. Nothing to do with anti semitism or any other crap, just don't like innocent children, people being murdered, full stop

Instead they blocked civid vaccinations reaching palestinians.

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

You know what, you are absolutely spot on.

War and conflict is an emotive subject, its easy to be one sided. Its hard to admit your chosen side (if you choose one) is not at fault.

Note how you only come down hard on my side of the argument, the Zionist side of things - yet have not come down equally as hard on those on the precise opposite end of the spectrum - the hard-line, dogmatic pro-Palestinian lobby.

That suggests you're not being as objective as you think you are, much as you portray yourself to be.