Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Samsonsmasher

Barry904 wrote: »

Israeli sympathisers in Ireland generally fall along the same lines of Brit apologist partitionists here in our own country.

Apologists for Islamic terrorists today were probably apologists for the provos and the likes of Baader Meinhof and the Red Brigades and other terrorists in the past and were apologists for BLM (Burn Loot and Murder) last year.

Overheal

eskimohunt wrote: »

Not at all.

They are despotic.

In contrast, Israel holds free and fair democratic elections.

May I add, that I am not a fan of every Israeli politician.

Benjamin Netanyahu, for example, I find repellant - on many levels; he is, for me, the Israeli version of Berti Ahern.

Proof?

Are all citizens equal in Israel? Are Jews more equal than non-Jews? Do Jews enjoy unique rights?

If Israel believed in elections and democracy it would proceed with the process that was taking place before Bibi decided to spark a war, it would not be putting an indefinite hold on things.

Samsonsmasher

Overheal wrote: »

We aren't discussing Islamic fundamentalists worldwide, or a hypothetical Caliphate, we are discussing Palestine, and Israel.

Hamas is part of the global Islamist movement. If you are discussing them you must discuss themin their context and mindful of what they stand for:

Hamas want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

Odhinn

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Apologists for Islamic terrorists today were probably apologists for the provos and the likes of Baader Meinhof and the Red Brigades and other terrorists in the past and were apologists for BLM (Burn Loot and Murder) last year.

Another mask slips. Must be something in the air.

namloc1980

Overheal wrote: »

We aren't discussing Islamic fundamentalists worldwide, or a hypothetical Caliphate, we are discussing Palestine, and Israel.

They'll invoke anything to avoid discussing the actual issue of Palestine and the inhumane treatment/oppression of the Palestinians by Israel.

Samsonsmasher

Odhinn wrote: »

Another mask slips. Must be something in the air.

No mask has slipped.

The authoritarian left supports violence and terror

Odhinn

eskimohunt wrote: »

Not at all.

They are despotic.

In contrast, Israel holds free and fair democratic elections.

..........

....but doesn't extend the vote to the millions of Palestinians under its control. Its elections are as "free and fair" as much as those of Apartheid South Africa were.

Overheal

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Hamas is part of the global Islamist movement. If you are discussing them you must discuss themin their context and mindful of what they stand for:

Hamas want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

According to a charter or something like that? I don't think so..

You can of course, absolutely keep the discussion focused on Hamas, Palestine, Israel and the current violence, none of which has anything to do with a Caliphate, ISIS, 9/11, or the Holocaust.

Is there some reason that, for example, ISIS in Syria or wherever, is being used here as a justification for Israeli targeting civilian population centers? Why is "because 9/11" an excuse for murdering 50+ children too young to know what ideology is?

antgal23

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Hamas is part of the global Islamist movement. If you are discussing them you must discuss themin their context and mindful of what they stand for:

Hamas want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.

But we aren't talking about Hamas

We are talking about

how Israel treats Palestinians in Gaza, West Bank and in Israel

how Israel denies Palestinians the right to self determination

how Israel has killed 4000 Palestinians since 2000

how Israeli settlers murder and main innocent Palestinians

how Israel has nuclear bombs

how Israel uses chemical warfare

how Israel breaks international law

Etc etc etc

Housefree

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

No mask has slipped.

The authoritarian left supports violence and terror

Your shift must just be starting

No justifying apartheid

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution.

Israels Human Rights organization declared it Apartheid
'A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid'
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

Timberrrrrrrr

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

No mask has slipped.

The authoritarian left supports violence and terror

If that were the case they would be supporting the Israeli government and thier actions.

Odhinn

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Hamas is part of the global Islamist movement. ,,,,.

Bit mad that IS consider them apostate then, isn't it. And they never made Sharia law mandatory in the Gaza strip, which put them out of favour with Al Qaeda.........


What have hamas to do with the colonisation of Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank?

Mimon

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

No mask has slipped.

The authoritarian left supports violence and terror

I haven't seen many if any left wing ideologies being espoused by the people here who are opposed to Israeli atrocities.

Nice try in pigeon holing people though, makes a slight change from the false anti semitic accusations.

Overheal

President Biden spoke today with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to convey the U.S. commitment to strengthening the U.S.-Palestinian partnership. They discussed the current tensions in Jerusalem and the West Bank and expressed their shared desire for Jerusalem to be a place of peaceful coexistence for people of all faiths and backgrounds. President Biden updated President Abbas on U.S. diplomatic engagement on the ongoing conflict and stressed the need for Hamas to cease firing rockets into Israel. They expressed their shared concern that innocent civilians, including children, have tragically lost their lives amidst the ongoing violence. The President expressed his support for steps to enable the Palestinian people to enjoy the dignity, security, freedom, and economic opportunity that they deserve. In that regard, he highlighted the recent U.S. decision to resume assistance to the Palestinian people, including economic and humanitarian assistance to benefit Palestinians in the West bank and Gaza. The President also underscored his strong commitment to a negotiated two-state solution as the best path to reach a just and lasting resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The President spoke today with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. The President reaffirmed his strong support for Israel’s right to defend itself against rocket attacks from Hamas and other terrorist groups in Gaza. He condemned these indiscriminate attacks against towns and cities across Israel. The President updated the Prime Minister on high-level U.S. engagement with regional partners on this issue and discussed ongoing diplomatic efforts. The President noted that this current period of conflict has tragically claimed the lives of Israeli and Palestinian civilians, including children. He raised concerns about the safety and security of journalists and reinforced the need to ensure their protection.

The President shared his grave concern about the intercommunal violence across Israel. He welcomed the statements by the Prime Minister and other leaders opposing such hateful acts and encouraged continued steps to hold violent extremists accountable and to establish calm. They discussed the current tensions in Jerusalem and expressed their shared desire for Jerusalem to be a place of peaceful coexistence for people of all faiths and backgrounds. The President voiced his concern about violent confrontations in the West Bank. He expressed his support for steps to enable the Palestinian people to enjoy the dignity, security, freedom, and economic opportunity that they deserve and affirmed his support for a two-state solution. The leaders agreed to continue the close consultation between their teams and to remain in touch in the days ahead.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/read-details-of-president-bidens-calls-with-benjamin-netanyahu-and-mahmoud-abbas/

Samsonsmasher

Overheal wrote: »

Who?

The alphabet soup of parties on the Irish extreme left which were once the extreme left of the Labour Party, Official Sinn Fein and the Irish Communist Party. They are currently led by the likes of Rich Boy and others.

Overheal

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The alphabet soup of parties on the Irish extreme left which were once the extreme left of the Labour Party, Official Sinn Fein and the Irish Communist Party. They are currently led by the likes of Rich Boy and others.

So just an incredibly broad stroke pointed at yonder direction.

Might as well blame the boogey man. Or Elvis.

Samsonsmasher

Overheal wrote: »

So just an incredibly broad stroke pointed at yonder direction.

Might as well blame the boogey man. Or Elvis.

The Irish left in its current form became a political orphan after the collapse of their beloved Soviet Union. They remained anti American and anti Israel and the Russians who pulled the strings back in the days of the KGB kept in contact.
The Irish Left never protests against China or Russia or regimes and despots that are pro Russian or Chinese allies such as Iran or North Korea or Burma.
The only reason that the Irish Left cares about Israel is because they hate America.
For the same reason they are apologists for Islamic terrorists and why they opposed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

cloudatlas

How could any Israeli watch the small bodies of children being carried from the rubble and not hate their government, it's too much.

batman75

I think the charge of Anti Semitism is a handy grenade for supporters of Israel to throw out whenever Israel is criticised for its actions.

1. Arabs should be afforded equal rights within the legal borders of Israel.
2. Arabs should not be moved from their homes either within Israel's legal borders and especially outside those legal borders.
3. The rhetoric from Netanyahu needs to change radically. His language is incendiary and hate filled. It should be pointed out to him and every
Israeli that his new country is on Arab land.
4. Israel must be made to allow the people of Gaza to have an airport and port.
5. Other Arab countries need to step up to the plate and support the people of Palestine in preserving the integrity of their nation.
6. Every effort should be made to help Palestine as a nation stands on its own two feet economically.
7. I would like to see the borders of Gaza extended to the Egyptian border so as to not have it completely hemmed in by Israel.
8. All settlements outside Israel's legally recognised borders need to be completely dismantled.
9. As long as the US backs Israel to the hilt, unequivocally, there will never be peace in the Middle East. The support of the US feeds Israeli
arrogance and allows it to act with impunity.
10. Israel needs to publicly declare that an Arab life has as much validity as a Jew and it will respect this.

DerekC16

tayto lover wrote: »

And anti murder. Shame on them.

Silent when Europeans are being murdered though.

Necro

eskimohunt wrote: »

I don't accept the premise of these highly biased organizations.

Israel is a democratic diamond in the Middle East, surrounded by despotic regimes and incoherent savages.

Threadbanned

Necro

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Apologists for Islamic terrorists today were probably apologists for the provos and the likes of Baader Meinhof and the Red Brigades and other terrorists in the past and were apologists for BLM (Burn Loot and Murder) last year.

Stay out of this thread

antgal23

antgal23 wrote: »

Can you explain exactly in what way the Palestinians control their own borders, seas and airspace?

I don't need to. The point remains, the point that you want to avoid recognising, is that the other Arab nations would have taken Palestine themselves in the 1948.

This is not an attempt to defend Israel. As I said, I have zero patience for either side of the argument. The simple reality is that Palestine wouldn't have existed later except for Israel winning the Arab-Israel war.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Jesus that’s some statement right there.
If we didn’t beat them to death someone else would.

Shame on you.

Shame on you for seeking to twist what was said, just so you could perch on some self-appointed moral superiority.

Care to point to anywhere in my post where I said anything even remotely connected to "If we didn’t beat them to death someone else would"

So... yeah. You should be seriously considering your own motives before casting shame on others. Bloody hell.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

12 and a half years ago and Israel are still the same today

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58388635&postcount=3

What are the solutions that could end the conflict in the long term? Otherwise there'll be another thread in x years with pages more of similar circular arguments.

I'd love to see potential solutions, a 1 state solution? 2 state? Reparations for land taken?

At least if there were good solutions proposed you could get onto politicians to forward them, however much use that would be.....beats doing nothing and circular arguments. Be better to debate that

tom1ie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are the solutions that could end the conflict in the long term? Otherwise there'll be another thread in x years with pages more of similar circular arguments.

I'd love to see potential solutions, a 1 state solution? 2 state? Reparations for land taken?

Promise free movement for all Palestinians in return for the disbandment of Hamas.
Promise a health insurance and schooling for all Palestinians in return for disbandment of Hamas, tab picked up by the international community.

batman75

Deleted User wrote: »

What are the solutions that could end the conflict in the long term? Otherwise there'll be another thread in x years with pages more of similar circular arguments.

I'd love to see potential solutions, a 1 state solution? 2 state? Reparations for land taken?

I don't see a resolution as long as the US funds and supports Israel. That has to stop. Then at that point Israel will be forced to deal with the Palestinian Authorities on an equal footing. Then you have the foundations for a possible deal.

Odhinn

tom1ie wrote: »

Promise free movement for all Palestinians in return for the disbandment of Hamas.
Promise a health insurance and schooling for all Palestinians in return for disbandment of Hamas, tab picked up by the international community.

You realise that the majority of Palestinians are not governed by Hamas?

tom1ie

Odhinn wrote: »

You realise that the majority of Palestinians are not governed by Hamas?

Hamas are currently firing the rockets and using human shields.
Get rid of Hamas and there's a chance Israel will have to give some sort of change towards free movement.

jam_mac_jam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are the solutions that could end the conflict in the long term? Otherwise there'll be another thread in x years with pages more of similar circular arguments.

I'd love to see potential solutions, a 1 state solution? 2 state? Reparations for land taken?

At least if there were good solutions proposed you could get onto politicians to forward them, however much use that would be.....beats doing nothing and circular arguments. Be better to debate that

There are no long term solutions that both sides will agree to.

The two state solution is no longer viable because of the settlements in the west bank.

The one state solution is something that Isreal will never agree to.

Isreal is never going to value Palestinians in the same way as a Jewish person. And Palestinians are never going to renounce violence. And will keep blowing things up. This gives justification for Isreal to treat Palestinians like **** and ensure the hatred cycle goes on to another generation.

As long as Hamas are in charge of the Palestinians and far right governments in Isreal hold sway there is very little hope.

They absolutely hate each other. And really can you blame them with all that has gone on.