Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

namloc1980

Whelo79 wrote: »

Our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be reading about this in their history books, right alongside stories about Nazi Germany and apartheid in South Africa.

They will wonder why our generation sat idly by and done nothing to stop the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.

Our parents and grandparents sat idly by and let Israeli Jews occupy Palestinian homes and forced them out of their ancestral lands into tiny ghettos in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Or sat by as Israel occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem and ethnically cleansed large swathes of the West Bank. Why didn't they do anything?

J Mysterio

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is why Hamas fires rockets from residential areas. They purposely put their own citizens at risk. In many cases sign their own death sentence. Would you continue to allow rockets to be fired towards your area and not try and neutralise the threat just because it is coming from a residential area? Hamas are evil.

Have you ever considered the parallel to Ireland's fight for freedom against aggressive English colonialism?

We didn't field a standing army against them, we employed guerilla tactics, as it was the only way we stood a chance against overwhelming odds.

And, similarly, the Black and Tans, auxiliaries et all went about and savaged the ol' wans and burned our towns and cities.

The Israelis are behaving disgracefully, and the world needs to stand up to their inhumane and illegal behaviour, but US interests means that they continue to get away with it. It's not acceptable, nor is it sustainable.

The Israelis should know better.

Celebrating their victory in the 1967 war as Al Aqsa mosque burns.
https://twitter.com/Istanbultelaviv/status/1391870548830040075?s=20

IDF soldier about to throw a stun grenade at an ambulance and caught on film.
https://twitter.com/jijijibli/status/1391829463630024704?s=20

c.p.w.g.w

Lmkrnr wrote: »

They probably won't..if a txt book said anything bad about Jews it would be pulled from the shelves.

Sure even criticizing Israel gets you labeled as an anti-Semite...

In the UK a number of politicians were called anti-semetic because they were critical of Israel

partyguinness

jmreire wrote: »

Going by the Nr of Israeli attacks on weapon dumps on Syrian territory, I'd doubt that very much.

Really?

Whenever they feel like it Israel can at stop/control people, food, supplies, hell even Covid vaccines from entering and exiting Gaza etc. But strangely they cant stop the accumulation of rockets and the material for such weapons.

If Hamas do not have rockets and weapons etc then Israel have little or no excuses to blow the place up when they feel like it. Can't be having that. Let them have their rockets (99.99% of the rockets land in fields well away from anything anway and sure if they odd one hits a target then sure all the better...even more excuse) so then they can return fire in kind. Good practice.

stoneill

fvp4 wrote: »

The responsibility is still with the attacker.

This all started with attacks on the mosques.

That is too simplistic an answer.

We all know that tension in the area are fraught all the time.
It is the ghettoising or a certain section of the population and the eradication of their homeland over many many years with a complete disregards to family homes and farms and lives that lead to conflict.
Wonder where we have seen that before?

IngazZagni

o1s1n wrote: »

Kind of hard to fire them from anywhere else seeing as they've literally no other bloody land left!

There's plenty of open space in Gaza. Have a look at Google maps but let's not let facts get in the way of a good comment.

Here's a good video from Indian journalists who spotted Hamas setting up rockets in a densely populated area.

https://youtu.be/k_ihf2omMX4

J Mysterio

IngazZagni wrote: »

There's plenty of open space in Gaza. Have a look at Google maps but let's not let facts get in the way of a good comment.

Here's a good video from Indian journalists who spotted Hamas setting up rockets in a densely populated area.

https://youtu.be/k_ihf2omMX4

The Israelis have sattelite imagery, drones, and precison strike armaments. Why would anyone go into a field to shoot a rocket? They would be signing their own, immediate death warrant.

Sadler Peak

J Mysterio wrote: »

The Israelis have sattelite imagery, drones, and precison strike armaments. Why would anyone go into a field to shoot a rocket? They would be signing their own, immediate death warrant.

Just shows you Hamas don't give a fuk for their own people.

Housefree

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Just shows you Hamas don't give a fuk for their own people.

What about the apartheid regime that keeps them imprisoned in a ghetto?

Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution

Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Ireland has a great Palestinian solidarity group
https://www.ipsc.ie/

Make sure you check out the boycott campaign
https://bdsmovement.net/

Israel employs an army of social media warriors, make sure you don't get caught up debating them
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Fandymo

Sadler Peak wrote: »

Just shows you Hamas don't give a fuk for their own people.

Their own people should be perfectly safe under international law. :rolleyes:

Housefree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNUp3hGEPHk

J Mysterio

Housefree wrote: »

Youtube

I would have liked to have seen a full video of this, including the ambassadors response, though I'm sure it was less then satisfactory.

igCorcaigh

I love that singing/call to prayer...

It's extremely eerie.

RoyalCelt

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. Before that it was an Israeli area. So from their point of view they're taking back what's theirs. Similar to how us Irish want back what was ours a thousand years ago.

Am I missing something here? In the end if the Palestinians were in the Israeli position of power they would be vicious and would wipe out the Jews.

igCorcaigh

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Am I missing something here?

Yes, a lot!

Triangle

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. Before that it was an Israeli area. So from their point of view they're taking back what's theirs. Similar to how us Irish want back what was ours a thousand years ago.

Am I missing something here? In the end if the Palestinians were in the Israeli position of power they would be vicious and would wipe out the Jews.

A very simplistic view. But the end result is the same - two warring people.

They (both sides) need to sit down and negotiate a settlement that they both can live with. But they (both sides) need to want it first and I'm not sure they do with the amount of hatred they have for each other currently.

wes

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. Before that it was an Israeli area. So from their point of view they're taking back what's theirs. Similar to how us Irish want back what was ours a thousand years ago.

FFS, Palestinians have always been there:
*EDIT* Found a better article

DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in modern Arabs and Jews

Israel saying they are not from there is just ****ing racism.

igCorcaigh

Triangle wrote: »

A very simplistic view. But the end result is the same - two warring people.

They (both sides) need to sit down and negotiate a settlement that they both can live with. But they (both sides) need to want it first and I'm not sure they do with the amount of hatred they have for each other currently.

Terrible leadership on both sides.

I don't see any real prospect of genuine peace talks unless something radically changes in the politics.
Awful situation to be allowed fester.
There needs to be real international intervention.

igCorcaigh

The Israeli cabinet are due to meet now to discuss possible extension to military ops.
Possible ground invasion of Gaza?

Housefree

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Terrible leadership on both sides.

I don't see any real prospect of genuine peace talks unless something radically changes in the politics.
Awful situation to be allowed fester.
There needs to be real international intervention.

Ireland has a history of standing up to Apartheid, hopefully we can get moving on the Occupied Territories Bill again and influence the EU to push forward with similar proposals

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnes_Stores_strike

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20373917.html

Whelo79

Whelo79 wrote: »

Our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be reading about this in their history books, right alongside stories about Nazi Germany and apartheid in South Africa.

They will wonder why our generation sat idly by and done nothing to stop the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.

I wonder what our grandchildren will think about South Africa by that stage. It will be another Zimbabwe. Not that the bleeding hearts brigade give two hoots about Zimbabwe anymore. It's OK as long as the oppressor doesn't have light skin.

boetstark

Housefree wrote: »

Ireland has a history of standing up to Apartheid, hopefully we can get moving on the Occupied Territories Bill again and influence the EU to push forward with similar proposals

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnes_Stores_strike

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/how-11-striking-irish-workers-helped-to-fight-apartheid-1.1618635

The same government that did a little jig backing the ANC, sticking their noses into affairs that they have little in depth knowledge

Fandymo

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. Before that it was an Israeli area. So from their point of view they're taking back what's theirs. Similar to how us Irish want back what was ours a thousand years ago.

Am I missing something here? In the end if the Palestinians were in the Israeli position of power they would be vicious and would wipe out the Jews.

I presume the US who are bankrolling Israelites returning home will soon be meekly leaving and giving the land back to the native Americans?? I'm sure they wouldn't want to be seen as hypocrites.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

Have you ever considered the parallel to Ireland's fight for freedom against aggressive English colonialism?

We didn't field a standing army against them, we employed guerilla tactics, as it was the only way we stood a chance against overwhelming odds.

Do you think the IRA forcibly removed the British army from Ireland and that this led to independence? Guerilla warfare achieved very little. World War 1 was the catalyst for our independence.

seamus

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. Before that it was an Israeli area. So from their point of view they're taking back what's theirs. Similar to how us Irish want back what was ours a thousand years ago.

Am I missing something here? In the end if the Palestinians were in the Israeli position of power they would be vicious and would wipe out the Jews.

You're missing the very obvious point that if you can go back arbitrarily far, you can prove that everyone in the world is living on "someone else's" land. Someone else lived in Israel before the jews.

But you're also missing the fact that Irish independence was never about reclaiming land and ejecting British people, it was asserting the right to self-governance. Many of the leaders of the independence movement were of british lineage. Even today when we talk of unification, nobody talks about evicting the children of the plantations and reclaiming the north. They are just as Irish as the rest of us.

Palestinian displacement isn't ancient history though. Not only are there Palestinians alive today whose land was literally stolen from them in the last 7 decades, their land is still being stolen from them. They have a legitimate right to demand their land back and have the Israeli invaders evicted.

Irish people have a grá for Palestine because what they're currently going through was played out in our history when Cromwell violently annexed Irish land, and left cultural scars that continued to reverberate for 3 centuries as well as economic conditions that almost directly led to two gigantic famines.

The same will happen to Palestine if Israel is allowed to continue.

Odhinn

Edz87 wrote: »

Eventually the palestenians are going to demand and get Israeli citizenship. That will be the end of country and all their tanks and planes can't save them.

.............

wes wrote: »

IMO, they should do that now. Disband the PA, and all Palestinian governmental agencies. Its clear Israel is opposed to a 2 state solution (Likud definitely is), and will never allow a Palestinian state to exist. So they should demand equal rights.

All the Israeli partys are committed to maintaining "the majority" which means they want land but wont take the Palestinians on it.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I'm not pro Israeli but what's with Irish people being so selective with their history. Palestinians became prominent in the area around the 5th century. ........
..........

Palestinians and sephardic jews share common ancestry going back millenia.

Shebean

Israel needs to stop evicting Palestinians from their homes and the world needs to speak and step up.

igCorcaigh

Shebean wrote: »

Israel needs to stop evicting Palestinians from their homes and the world needs to speak and step up.

How is it legal, under Israeli law, to do this?
I don't know much about the details, just heard that some families were to be evicted.

Was it a rent squabble used as an excuse, or something like that?

Odhinn

Shebean wrote: »

Israel needs to stop evicting Palestinians from their homes and the world needs to speak and step up.

The world does occasionally do that, but its all blocked at the UNSC level by the US, which uses its power and influence generally to protect the apartheid state from the repercussions of its behaviour.

Fandymo

igCorcaigh wrote: »

How is it legal, under Israeli law, to do this?
I don't know much about the details, just heard that some families were to be evicted.

Was it a rent squabble used as an excuse, or something like that?

They literally just walk in and say, this is my house now. I'm not even joking.