Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Israel has no interest in a two state solution. It will carve up the West Bank, leaving "free" palestinian areas scattered amidst Israeli settlements like the Bantustans of Apartheid South Africa.

Pretty much, because Israel knows that no formal division will work long-term, since it won't settle the hatreds involved. Palestinians and other Arabs will continue to want all the land, just as Israel wants all the land.

There's not going to be any resolution to this. People tend to focus on one side or the other in determining a possible solution, without recognising the lack of interest, by not just by both parties, but also all the neighboring States.

I suspect that Israel is hoping that Palestinians will drift away to live elsewhere, or gradually become assimilated into a "lesser" group, without any connection to the present Palestinian culture/nationalistic belief.

igCorcaigh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty much, because Israel knows that no formal division will work long-term, since it won't settle the hatreds involved. Palestinians and other Arabs will continue to want all the land, just as Israel wants all the land.

There's not going to be any resolution to this. People tend to focus on one side or the other in determining a possible solution, without recognising the lack of interest, by not just by both parties, but also all the neighboring States.

I suspect that Israel is hoping that Palestinians will drift away to live elsewhere, or gradually become assimilated into a "lesser" group, without any connection to the present Palestinian culture/nationalistic belief.

I'm convinced that a settlement to the conflict can happen. It needs imagination and courage.

Hatred will eventually subside. The two communities can share the land and realise their interdependence.

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

Which we saw in 2006 when Hezbollah gave the IDF a serious fight in southern Lebanon and took out numerous Israeli tanks and vehicles. Hezbollah are a much more capable outfit than Hamas.

But they didn't they damaged numourus vehicles most were returned to service in weeks ,and since then most Israeli military vehicles have increased passive and offensive counter measures ,
They learn from from each time this comes to escalation

Housefree

Good discussion

As the 'both sides' narrative crumbles, we discuss the latest attack on Palestine with...

Jeremy Corbyn MP
Former leader of the Labour Party

Dr Mustafa Barghouti
Member of the Palestinian Legislative Council & Secretary General of Palestinian National Initiative

Linda Sarsour
Palestinian American Activist & Co-Founder of the Women's March

Andrew Feinstein
Former South African MP & Author

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Mwwzfz4hY

nacho libre

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I'm convinced that a settlement to the conflict can happen. It needs imagination and courage.

Hatred will eventually subside. The two communities can share the land and realise their interdependence.

The West Bank situation does not suggest it will.



The Israeli apologists will be loathe to admit it, but the Israeli right needs Hamas, just as Hamas needs the Israeli right to stay in power. Crooked Bibi knew what he was doing stirring the pot these past few weeks, and it has worked out very well for him indeed.
Hamas are not interested in a settlement either.

They may have calculated that renewing hostilities would be to their advantage and weaken Abbas further.

.

namloc1980

Gatling wrote: »

But they didn't they damaged numourus vehicles most were returned to service in weeks ,and since then most Israeli military vehicles have increased passive and offensive counter measures ,
They learn from from each time this comes to escalation

20 Merkava main battle tanks were destroyed or put beyond repair - 14 by ATGM and 6 by IED. For a paramilitary force the Israelis were surprised at how vulnerable their MBTs were to attack from Hezbollah operatives.

nacho libre

namloc1980 wrote: »

20 Merkava main battle tanks were destroyed or put beyond repair - 14 by ATGM and 6 by IED. For a paramilitary force the Israelis were surprised at how vulnerable their MBTs were to attack from Hezbollah operatives.

Yes.
IDF leaders admitted they were taken by surprise in that war at how effective Hezbollah were at disabling their tanks. If you notice though Hezbollah is keeping fairly quiet during this round of fighting, because they do not want another with Israel. They know that the IDF have learnt lessons from the 2006 war.

namloc1980

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes.
IDF leaders admitted they were taken by surprise in that war at how effective Hezbollah were at disabling their tanks. If you notice though Hezbollah is keeping fairly quiet during this round of fighting, because they do not want another with Israel. They know that the IDF have learnt lessons from the 2006 war.

Hezbollah are stuck in the Syrian civil war in support of Assad. They wouldn't have the capacity to fight multiple fronts and are playing a longer game in Syria to increase their, and Irans, influence there.

tom1ie

namloc1980 wrote: »

Which we saw in 2006 when Hezbollah gave the IDF a serious fight in southern Lebanon and took out numerous Israeli tanks and vehicles. Hezbollah are a much more capable outfit than Hamas.

So why are Hezbollah not coming to the aid of Palestinians in this case?
I've a rough idea of what's going on but I'm no expert!

Answered in above posts thanks.

Cheerful S

Can't confirm this, yet not surprise me.

https://twitter.com/Intel_Sky/status/1393890437950328838

I have seen legit video from Ashkelon Israel (two hours ago) some rockets have landed and destroyed cars and damaged homes.

Some of it.
https://twitter.com/LocalFocus1/status/1393918733563973634

Nothing on the scale Israel carrying out, but Israel citizens are at risk if the Iron dome fails to bring down rockets.

wotzgoingon

Cheerful S wrote: »

Can't confirm this, yet not surprise me.

https://twitter.com/Intel_Sky/status/1393890437950328838

I have seen legit video from Ashkelon Israel (two hours ago) some rockets have landed and destroyed cars and damaged homes.

Some of it.
https://twitter.com/LocalFocus1/status/1393918733563973634

Nothing on the scale Israel carrying out, but Israel citizens are at risk if the Iron dome fails to bring down rockets.

You reap what you sow. Hamas have a right to defend themselves.

nacho libre

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hezbollah are stuck in the Syrian civil war in support of Assad. They wouldn't have the capacity to fight multiple fronts and are playing a longer game in Syria to increase their, and Irans, influence there.

Well, that is of course a major factor too, but even before their involvement in Syria, they were reluctant to take on Israel again. Israel is doing a lot of damage to Iran and Hezbollah in Syria, but no doubt some advanced Iranian weapons are making their way to Hezbollah.

end of the road

namloc1980 wrote: »

20 Merkava main battle tanks were destroyed or put beyond repair - 14 by ATGM and 6 by IED. For a paramilitary force the Israelis were surprised at how vulnerable their MBTs were to attack from Hezbollah operatives.

a couple of their jets were shot down as well if i remember rightly.

Cheerful S

namloc1980 wrote: »

Hezbollah are stuck in the Syrian civil war in support of Assad. They wouldn't have the capacity to fight multiple fronts and are playing a longer game in Syria to increase their, and Irans, influence there.

Hezbelloh knows Isreal will go all in for next war. This will be invasion to destroy Hezbelloh. Since Hezbelloh keeps Israel quiet mostly you be foolish to risk all your material gain for a conflict that meaningly airborne right now. The Status Quo may chance if Israel moved in with ground troops to crush Hamas and PYJ . Then so-called Axis of Resistance will lose a valuable partner in the fight with Israel. Iran would not accept the loss of the PYJ in Gaza. Right now that's not likely to occur when Israel attacks mainly done by drones, aircraft and artillery and occasionally the navy.

Hezbelloh has only a few thousand soldiers in Syria. Most combat troops are still at home and the wages are paid by Iran.

This Irish-Israeli thinks we are all blinded and full of hate for Israel because we don't agree with their tactics. He thinks the majority of Irish people are ignorant because of the support of palestinians and are full of anti semitism.Check his other videos.

jmreire

And mwybe

namloc1980 wrote: »

20 Merkava main battle tanks were destroyed or put beyond repair - 14 by ATGM and 6 by IED. For a paramilitary force the Israelis were surprised at how vulnerable their MBTs were to attack from Hezbollah operatives.

The Merkava is a serious piece of military hardware, for sure, but its hard to find any arnament that can take a blast from an IED, or purpose built munitions used in ATGM's. Afghanistan is littered with tanks ( Russian and American ) destroyed by IEDs. So not much if a surprise if Hezbollah was able to obtain and use these weapons. And even then, they might have had only limited Nrs of them ( especially the ATGMs ) Maybe that was what surprised the Israelis so much was that Hezbollah actually had them. back then?

Cheerful S

nacho libre wrote: »

Well, that is of course a major factor too, but even before their involvement in Syria, they were reluctant to take on Israel again. Israel is doing a lot of damage to Iran and Hezbollah in Syria, but no doubt some advanced Iranian weapons are making their way to Hezbollah.

This a myth Zionist supporters latch on to. It’s established Israel does not target on purpose Hezbelloh in Syria. Murdered a soldier belonging to Hezbelloh in Syria by mistake and Israel back channeled with Hezbelloh- they did not mean to kill him. Mistakes like this often lead to revenge attacks and thats well known. A agreement to avoid massacring each other soldiers exists. When its broken Hezbelloh will generally strike back at a checkpoint or IDF vehicle moving around near the border between Lebanon and Israel.

Israel mainly hits shipments in Syria that are brought over the border by smugglers and often Syrian born command/militia groups. Is there Iranian proxies killed in some Syria attacks, probably?

Bombs are often just dropped on storage places they think the weapons stored at., mainly SAA bases. It's another myth the bases belong to just the IRGC

Sadler Peak

Someone should have a word with him. Christ.

https://twitter.com/gunnerpunner/status/1393920559243829248


There is a lot of truth in this;

https://twitter.com/JoosyJew/status/1393877208872235008

wotzgoingon

What's so genuinely terrifying about that. ^^

Just look at the news of small kids being killed by Israeli's if you want to be genuinely terrified.

nacho libre

Cheerful S wrote: »

Iran would not accept the loss of the PYJ in Gaza. .

I think in reality there is little they could do to stop it. As we see they have done very little in response to Israel's bombing and assassination campaign against their soliders and key scientists involved in nuclear research.

Montage of Feck

It's no coincidence those bastards are driving down Finchley road.

Sickening anti-Semitism on display today in London.

Sadler Peak

wotzgoingon wrote: »

What's so genuinely terrifying about that. ^^

Just look at the news of small kids being killed by Israeli's if you want to be genuinely terrified.

Rape not terrifying ?

wotzgoingon

wotzgoingon wrote: »

What's so genuinely terrifying about that. ^^

Just look at the news of small kids being killed by Israeli's if you want to be genuinely terrified.

Unreal, disgusting post.

namloc1980

A bunch of arseholes in London who nobody would condone are bringing the outage brigade out.

55 children murdered in Gaza....... silence.

wotzgoingon

Deleted User wrote: »

Unreal, disgusting post.

Your right it is disgusting watching the news of Israeli airstrikes on civilians and Jews on top of hills/mountains cheering when the explosions go off.

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

20 Merkava main battle tanks were destroyed or put beyond repair - 14 by ATGM and 6 by IED.

I believe the figures are wrong ,it's less that 5 destroyed ,and as I mentioned earlier they have heavily upgraded their protection and armour on tanks ,
Which makes the russian kornets less effective against modern tank defences.
It's bit like the time they captured an Israeli tank and drove it around the streets until it was pointed out that the merkva tank doesn't have wheels underneath like a pick up truck

namloc1980

Gatling wrote: »

I believe the figures are wrong ,it's less that 5 destroyed ,and as I mentioned earlier they have heavily upgraded their protection and armour on tanks ,
Which makes the russian kornets less effective against modern tank defences

It's in the official Israeli summary of the war. Google it.

nacho libre

Cheerful S wrote: »

This a myth Zionist supporters latch on to. It’s established Israel does not target on purpose Hezbelloh in Syria. Murdered a soldier belonging to Hezbelloh in Syria by mistake and Israel back channeled with Hezbelloh- they did not mean to kill him. Mistakes like this often lead to revenge attacks and thats well known. A agreement to avoid massacring each other soldiers exists. When its broken Hezbelloh will generally strike back at a checkpoint or IDF vehicle moving around near the border between Lebanon and Israel.

Israel may not be targetting Hezbollah directly, but they are doing considerable damage to Hezbollah and Iran's infrastructure in Syria. IRGC are involved in Syria, there have been numerous funerals of their personnel back in Iran over the years.

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's in the official Israeli summary of the war. Google it.

Wikipedia by the sounds of it ,

Claims all needing citation ,it's Comes up in most of these threads about the huge Israelis losses but the very little other than what's on wiki