Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

wes

Pussyhands wrote: »

Are you asking Israel to release to the public how they discovered Hamas was based there?

Joe Biden was pretty happy with their rationale.

Why should we believe either of them? If no proof is offered up, then they are clearly lieing.

Gatling

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Prior to 2017, Israel inflicted high Hizbullah casualties in Syria, not so much since then.

There's still regular reports of Hezbollah losses to Israeli strikes in Syria on a near weekly basis ,along with Iranians it's become so common it rarely makes the headlines ,
They know that they will never be able to militarily confront and defeat the state of Israel ,they don't have the numbers or the equipment to do so ,you might take out 5 tanks but they can bring several hundred tanks and other fighting vehicles ,
They rarely even get through into Israel proper to pull off a spectacular ,just look at the efforts of the houthi forces in Yemen as an example.
They need to start doing something other than flinging rockets against a wall

Biker79

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't know Hamas were running the Associated Press organisation.


Ya learn something new every day!

You think the AP can set up shop in Gaza without the consent and control of Hamas?

Really??

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

What exactly is apartheid?

Its a toxic byword for racism. It didn't start off like that however. Its meaning is ' separateness ' in Afrikaans, and it recognizes that in practical terms two groups of people/ two tribes may be so different in customs and culture, that its more practical to live independently.

Of course, over time it turned out ugly in South Africa and had to be dismantled - rightly so. But its intentions were not 'racist' from the beginning. You could argue that the SA authorities should have seen how it would turn out but I don't think they knew. They didn't expect mass migration from sub Saharan Africa through porous borders, for example, which happened due to the very success of their economic polices. So, it was demographics that brought that situation to a resolution.

How does this apply to Israel? Well, it doesn't really - not with the accepted sense of the word. Despite attempts by the Woke media to brainwash us with their hyperbolic rhetoric - Israel is the most diverse tolerant country in the region. But unlike SA, it has to deal with numerous groups who are extremely hostile to its existence. Its a situation unlike any other in the world, much less South Africa.

It must be tempting to apply a policy of ' separateness ' when surrounded by so many groups with hostile intentions. Its a mark of Israel's values, IMHO, that they strive to be liberal and democratic, despite having good reasons not to be.

Tell that to the Palestinian people locked in an open air prison in Gaza or walled into ghettos in the West Bank surrounded by a hostile occupying military force. You do know that Israel has a fundamental law that says only Jews can exercise national self determination in Israel? Non-Jews can't - even those who are Israeli citizens. Not very tolerant is it.

Odhinn

Biker79 wrote: »

...................

It must be tempting to apply a policy of ' separateness ' when surrounded by so many groups with hostile intentions. Its a mark of Israel's values, IMHO, that they strive to be liberal and democratic, despite having good reasons not to be.

Why does a "liberal democracy" deprive millions under its power a vote?

Biker79 wrote: »

.
How does this apply to Israel?

Israel runs a two tier system of Justice in the OT, with a two tier infrastructure and systems. There are settler only areas and settler only roads. That's apartheid.

Housefree

Biker79 wrote: »

What exactly is apartheid?

Its a toxic byword for racism. It didn't start off like that however. Its meaning is ' separateness ' in Afrikaans, and it recognizes that in practical terms two groups of people/ two tribes may be so different in customs and culture, that its more practical to live independently.

Of course, over time it turned out ugly in South Africa and had to be dismantled - rightly so. But its intentions were not 'racist' from the beginning. You could argue that the SA authorities should have seen how it would turn out but I don't think they knew. They didn't expect mass migration from sub Saharan Africa through porous borders, for example, which happened due to the very success of their economic polices. So, it was demographics that brought that situation to a resolution.

How does this apply to Israel? Well, it doesn't really - not with the accepted sense of the word. Despite attempts by the Woke media to brainwash us with their hyperbolic rhetoric - Israel is the most diverse tolerant country in the region. But unlike SA, it has to deal with numerous groups who are extremely hostile to its existence. Its a situation unlike any other in the world, much less South Africa.

It must be tempting to apply a policy of ' separateness ' when surrounded by so many groups with hostile intentions. Its a mark of Israel's values, IMHO, that they strive to be liberal and democratic, despite having good reasons not to be.

Seriously? That's off the charts

Here's what Apartheid looks like in Israel

Human Rights Watch:
Israel is an apartheid state
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/04/27/abusive-israeli-policies-constitute-crimes-apartheid-persecution .

B'Tselem
Israels Human Rights organization declared it Apartheid
'A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid'
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

Amnesty International
Palestinians live under constant human rights abuses
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Overheal

Pussyhands wrote: »

Where did I say they were linked?

The situations are similar though.

Little Mohammed in Syria saw his parents killed by the US/EU. He then turns into a terrorists and wants to kill innocent people. By most peoples reasoning here, you'd be fine with little Mohammed growing up and murdering your mother if she was sitting in a France theatre.

Did you just honestly try to make this argument in defense of slaughtering children?

Pussyhands

wes wrote: »

Why should we believe either of them? If no proof is offered up, then they are clearly lieing.

They are under no obligation to reveal to regular people in ireland how their intelligence systems work.

But let me guess, some random video on twitter counts as evidence when it supports Palestine. Just like that image of jews mocking a palestinean who was evicted.......when it turned out it wasn't true at all!

Take a look at this thread, look at the upvotes and the comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/n2u696/israeli_settlers_making_fun_of_a_palestinian/

And then look at the real story of the photo. https://www.reddit.com/r/misc/comments/wrxhx/settlers_make_fun_of_the_palestinian_woman_after/

All those from the first thread fell for the propaganda and created their own story in their heads.

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

You think the AP can set up shop in Gaza without the consent and control of Hamas?

Really??

How long was the Associated Press in control of the building?

How many wars have been fought with Gaza in that time? And the building has stood?

I'll help you: 15 years.

Israel attacked the building because they didn't like the news coming out of it.

Pussyhands

If you're on the same side as Richard Boyd Barrett and Paul Murphy you really need to look in the mirror...

namloc1980

Pussyhands wrote: »

Where did I say they were linked?

The situations are similar though.

Little Mohammed in Syria saw his parents killed by the US/EU. He then turns into a terrorists and wants to kill innocent people. By most peoples reasoning here, you'd be fine with little Mohammed growing up and murdering your mother if she was sitting in a France theatre.

Incredibly warped thinking here.

Pussyhands

Overheal wrote: »

How long was the Associated Press in control of the building?

How many wars have been fought with Gaza in that time? And the building has stood?

I'll help you: 15 years.

Israel attacked the building because they didn't like the news coming out of it.

So you think AP won't be reporting in Gaza now?

end of the road

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's either Israel innocents getting killed or some Palestineans in the process of killing Hamas terrorists.

Israel have constantly shown they are about civilians by giving advance notice of bomb targets. They also, to the massive disappointment of the media, tricked everyone into thinking they were invading Gaza to force Hamas into tunnels where they bombed them away from civilians.

all of the evidence available says otherwise, thus disproving your statements.

Pussyhands wrote: »

I mean, they were given advanced notice to evacuate. It's not like the journalists can't work anymore. Is Al Jazeera down? Can they not report on the conflict anymore??? Please answer this!

It houses Hamas intelligence...imagine a communications hub housing intelligence personnel....shocking! :O

You people fall for Hamas PR. THERE'S A REASON HAMAS HIDE AMONGST THESE PEOPLE

no advanced warning was given, and even if it is, attacking a building operated by a media organisation is still a war crime and an act of terrorism, which is only committed by a rogue state and terrorist organisation.
journalists reporting the facts are being arrested by the israely military, so yes there is some difficulty in reporting the facts, however facts are getting out quite thankfully.
we just fall for facts, the fact is israel is a rogue state.

Biker79 wrote: »

And if they didn't retaliate, they would be overrun by every ISIS terrorist in the region.

Such is the zero sum game of middle eastern conflict.

Doesn't have to be that way though - Israel is the only liberal democracy capable of bringing increased living standards to its neighbours. If only certain groups were able to engage and negotiate...

it's an illiberal democracy where only people who are of the correct type can take part, and who are the only ones entitled to, and would receive increased living standards.
those of the wrong type are either kept in an open prison or have no rights within the state of israel itself.
no point in negotiating and engaging with a state that wants to destroy them and increase it's borders at will.

Biker79 wrote: »

If you're prepared to swallow these tabloid headlines wholesale...that's your business.

they aren't tabloid headlines but established facts.

Overheal

Pussyhands wrote: »

Are you asking Israel to release to the public how they discovered Hamas was based there?

Joe Biden was pretty happy with their rationale.

Joe Biden is beholden inexorably and by oath to the national security interests of the United States. The US is inherently conflicted by its interests, and inexorably so is Joe Biden. His comfort with what is happening now is not conclusive of anything else.

Housefree

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you're on the same side as Richard Boyd Barrett and Paul Murphy you really need to look in the mirror...

Compared to an Apartheid state

namloc1980

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you're on the same side as Richard Boyd Barrett and Paul Murphy you really need to look in the mirror...

What a stupid point of view.

Overheal

Pussyhands wrote: »

So you think AP won't be reporting in Gaza now?

Their capacity to broadcast, research and perform journalism has been severely diminished. A lot of media equipment was blown to smithereens.

"We are shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza," he said in a statement."The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today."

The acting director general of Al Jazeera Media Network, Dr Mostefa Souag, called the strike "barbaric" and said Israel should be held accountable.

“The aim of this heinous crime is to silence the media and to hide the untold carnage and suffering of the people of Gaza," he said in a statement.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness-2021-05-15/

A video broadcast by Al-Jazeera showed the high-rise building’s owner, Jawwad Mahdi, pleading over the phone with an Israeli intelligence officer for permission to wait 10 minutes so journalists could to go inside the building to retrieve valuable equipment before it was bombed.

“All I’m asking is to let four people... to go inside and get their cameras,” he said. “We respect your wishes. We will not do it if you don’t allow it, but give us 10 minutes.”

The officer on the other end of the phone rejected the request, at which point Mahdi says: “You have destroyed our life’s work, memories, life. I will hang up. Do what you want. There is a God.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/15/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness.html

I fail to see how, as your argument implies, it was okay for them to obliterate the media.

Pussyhands

Overheal wrote: »

Joe Biden is beholden inexorably and by oath to the national security interests of the United States. The US is inherently conflicted by its interests, and inexorably so is Joe Biden. His comfort with what is happening now is not conclusive of anything else.

Ursula von der Leyn, who everyone was bending the knee for a few months ago, supports Israels actions.

Thoughts? So that's EU and US that support Israel.

Overheal

Pussyhands wrote: »

Ursula von der Leyn, who everyone was bending the knee for a few months ago, supports Israels actions.

Thoughts? So that's EU and US that support Israel.

What are your thoughts? I'm not familiar with that name.

tritriagain

Any recommendations on books on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Love history but have to admit am quite ignorant on this particular topic. Have read reviews of "ethnic cleansing of Palestine" which seems to get food reviews

Pussyhands

Overheal wrote: »

Their capacity to broadcast, research and perform journalism has been severely diminished. A lot of media equipment was blown to smithereens.

"We are shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza," he said in a statement."The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today."

The acting director general of Al Jazeera Media Network, Dr Mostefa Souag, called the strike "barbaric" and said Israel should be held accountable.

“The aim of this heinous crime is to silence the media and to hide the untold carnage and suffering of the people of Gaza," he said in a statement.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness-2021-05-15/

A video broadcast by Al-Jazeera showed the high-rise building’s owner, Jawwad Mahdi, pleading over the phone with an Israeli intelligence officer for permission to wait 10 minutes so journalists could to go inside the building to retrieve valuable equipment before it was bombed.

“All I’m asking is to let four people... to go inside and get their cameras,” he said. “We respect your wishes. We will not do it if you don’t allow it, but give us 10 minutes.”

The officer on the other end of the phone rejected the request, at which point Mahdi says: “You have destroyed our life’s work, memories, life. I will hang up. Do what you want. There is a God.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/15/gaza-tower-housing-ap-al-jazeera-collapses-after-missile-strike-witness.html

I fail to see how, as your argument implies, it was okay for them to obliterate the media.

You guys are getting mixed up now. Another pro palestine poster said there was no advance warning, now you are saying there was.

Hamas infiltrate amongst civilians because they know exactly how to play the media. It's obviously working.

The media were actually disappointed the Israelis tricked them when they said they were planning a ground invasion. This forced Hamas into tunnels away from civilians and then Israel killed them.

Then the media came out and were complaining their journalistic integrity was compromised....how sad, disappointed there weren't civilians killed.

Pussyhands

Overheal wrote: »

What are your thoughts? I'm not familiar with that name.

You're not familiar with Ursula?

Odhinn

tritriagain wrote: »

Any recommendations on books on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Love history but have to admit am quite ignorant on this particular topic. Have read reviews of "ethnic cleansing of Palestine" which seems to get food reviews

Benny Morris is a good place to start
https://www.amazon.com/Benny-Morris/e/B001IQX8V8%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

Overheal

Pussyhands wrote: »

You guys are getting mixed up now. Another pro palestine poster said there was no advance warning, now you are saying there was.

Your problem then would be with that poster. Whom I am not. That said, the media wasn't given sufficient notice to move its equipment.

Hamas infiltrate amongst civilians because they know exactly how to play the media. It's obviously working.

Obviously based on what? Total conjecture. There is no evidence to date proving that there was any military threat from the building.

The media were actually disappointed the Israelis tricked them when they said they were planning a ground invasion. This forced Hamas into tunnels away from civilians and then Israel killed them.

Then the media came out and were complaining their journalistic integrity was compromised....how sad, disappointed there weren't civilians killed.

Except, there were civilians killed, and the IDF did knowingly and wittingly put out false information to inflict maximum casualties in their bombing run. Children included.

In either event, the media has ample justification for criticizing Israel for perverting the media as a tool to enhance murder.

Pussyhands wrote: »

You're not familiar with Ursula?

What are your thoughts? You brought them up? I'm not familiar with that person.

Biker79

tritriagain wrote: »

Any recommendations on books on the Israel/Palestine conflict. Love history but have to admit am quite ignorant on this particular topic. Have read reviews of "ethnic cleansing of Palestine" which seems to get food reviews

The great war for civilization, for a broad overview of the middle east.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52142.The_Great_War_for_Civilisation.

Careful though, this a topic thoroughly highjacked by the Woke left..as you might be able to see.

end of the road

Pussyhands wrote: »

You guys are getting mixed up now. Another pro palestine poster said there was no advance warning, now you are saying there was.

Hamas infiltrate amongst civilians because they know exactly how to play the media. It's obviously working.

The media were actually disappointed the Israelis tricked them when they said they were planning a ground invasion. This forced Hamas into tunnels away from civilians and then Israel killed them.

Then the media came out and were complaining their journalistic integrity was compromised....how sad, disappointed there weren't civilians killed.

a substantial amount of civilians were killed.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

When they tell you what they really feel...


https://twitter.com/gunnerpunner/status/1393920559243829248?s=20

Condemnable hate speech. British police should investigate.

biko

I took it down as it is unclear where it came from.
More to follow.

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

The great war for civilization, for a broad overview of the middle east.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52142.The_Great_War_for_Civilisation.

Careful though, this a topic thoroughly highjacked by the Woke left..as you might be able to see.

Pretty sad you were resorting to this nonsense. Basically if you abhor the slaughter of children you are woke as if that is some sort of insult. Pathetic.

Timberrrrrrrr

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you're on the same side as Richard Boyd Barrett and Paul Murphy you really need to look in the mirror...

And if you're on the same side as the I.D.F and support thier murder of children then you definitely need to look in the mirror!