Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

Overheal

biko wrote: »

I took it down as it is unclear where it came from.
More to follow.

Suffice to say there are certain people are hateful on both sides of the issue.

Israeli police escort the "death to arabs" marches through the West Bank though and I don't see a british police escort endorsing that kind of hate speech in your example.

Timberrrrrrrr

Pussyhands wrote: »

Ursula von der Leyn, who everyone was bending the knee for a few months ago, supports Israels actions.

Thoughts? So that's EU and US that support Israel.

Ursula von der Leyn speaks for the whole of the E.U now?

Biker79

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pretty sad you were resorting to this nonsense. Basically if you abhor the slaughter of children you are woke as if that is some sort of insult. Pathetic.

Its not an insult, as such. ' Woke ' is a byword for irrational ideas, overt emotionalism, virtue signaling, simplistic thinking...I don't doubt there are good intentions.

UDAWINNER

Pussyhands wrote: »

If you're on the same side as Richard Boyd Barrett and Paul Murphy you really need to look in the mirror...

Must send you your water bill, then you won't mind paying

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

Its not an insult, as such. ' Woke ' is a byword for irrational ideas, overt emotionalism, virtue signaling, simplistic thinking...I don't doubt there are good intentions.

That kind of describes your post earlier that Israel is a highly tolerant state but you didn't bother mentioning the 4 million people under it's occupation that it gives little or no rights to.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Suffice to say there are certain people are hateful on both sides of the issue.

Israeli police escort the "death to arabs" marches through the West Bank though and I don't see a british police escort endorsing that kind of hate speech in your example.

Which, not to leave unsaid, there are also Israelis opposed to this violence, racism, ethnic cleansing. But nobody is citing the extremism by way of arguing Israel has no right to exist. It does. But hate from extremist Palestinians is wholesale used as a justification to force the Gazans into an open air prison, subject to Israel's whims for electricity, necessities and healthcare.

Both states have a right to exist. Not just Israel.

Odhinn

Biker79 wrote: »

Its not an insult, as such. ' Woke ' is a byword for irrational ideas, overt emotionalism, virtue signaling, simplistic thinking...I don't doubt there are good intentions.

Why does a "liberal democracy" deprive millions under its power a vote?



I've asked you the above multiple times. Is there some reason you can't answer?

thomas 123

Biker79 wrote: »

Its not an insult, as such. ' Woke ' is a byword for irrational ideas, overt emotionalism, virtue signaling, simplistic thinking...I don't doubt there are good intentions.

Here’s something simple, stop evicting palastinians from their homes and land on the West Bank. Stop planting settlers, stop building roads between said settlements and creating islands of poverty. Stop witholding funding from schools unless they adhere to the Israeli curriculum.
Stop not allowing palastinians to vote. Stop funding the purchase of palastinian homes in the Muslim quarter in the old city. Etc etc

Furthermore:
Stop beating worshipers with the army in order to spark a wider conflict.
Stop bombing civilian buildings.
Stop bombing the only power plant in Gaza.
Stop calling people who criticize anti-Semitic.

Biker79

namloc1980 wrote: »

That kind of describes your post earlier that Israel is a highly tolerant state but you didn't bother mentioning the 4 million people under it's occupation that it gives little or no rights to.

It is the most tolerant, in a region of intolerance and extremely violent tribalism - absolutely.

Not sure about the 'little or no' rights of 4 million people? Most non Jewish people from the region are happier living in Israel, due to better employment prospects, safety, healthcare etc.

thomas 123

Biker79 wrote: »

It is the most tolerant, in a region of intolerance and extremely violent tribalism - absolutely.

Not sure about the 'little or no' rights of 4 million people? Most non Jewish people from the region are happier living in Israel, due to better employment prospects, safety, healthcare etc.

Ah yeah, I’m sure they where thrilled when Israel moved in and took all the best farm land in the south, control
of water and provides them absolutely no funds(since they don’t have a vote).

Lucky Palastinians!

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

It is the most tolerant, in a region of intolerance and extremely violent tribalism - absolutely.

Not sure about the 'little or no' rights of 4 million people? Most non Jewish people from the region are happier living in Israel, due to better employment prospects, safety, healthcare etc.

The Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank are denied freedom of movement, denied economic necessities like an airport or port that would help them develop their economy, denied equal property rights that Jews enjoy, denied citizenship, denied the right of return that only Jews enjoy. Oh and they have been forced out of their lands by Israel since 1948. Why does does such a "tolerant" state treat millions of people like that??

Overheal

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank are denied freedom of movement, denied economic necessities like an airport or port that would help them develop their economy, denied equal property rights that Jews enjoy, denied citizenship, denied the right of return that only Jews enjoy. Why does does such a "tolerant" state treat millions of people live that??

The deflection is that they are the "most democratic in the region etc" - edit: proof is up there, beat me to it.

To which we aren't talking about the unacceptability of practices in other scopes. But the practices of other countries, eg. those that are pillars of Sharia law etc. are not in the scope of this May 2021 conflict. It is a mere deflection away from addressing the truth: that we cannot support the evolution of Israel into an apartheid state.

Biker79

Odhinn wrote: »

Why does a "liberal democracy" deprive millions under its power a vote?



I've asked you the above multiple times. Is there some reason you can't answer?

Show me some more details on that. At a guess, they are managing their demographics pragmatically. Educated people/ developed countries tend to have lower birthrates. I'm sure they are careful about being undone by demographics, which is as much to do with national security as anything.

Regarding land occupation, aside from a religious right to lands, which I don't know the details of, land rights have fundamentally gone to those who have shown a better capacity to utilize that land. Its extremely important in a geography such as theirs because food has to be grown for 15 million people, and water has to be managed and dispersed to same.

Ah yeah, I’m sure they where thrilled when Israel moved in and took all the best farm land in the south, control
of water and provides them absolutely no funds(since they don’t have a vote).

Lucky Palastinians!

' Evicting ' is such a hyperbolic Woke term in this context, but in reality its more like a compulsory purchase order, where land is of strategic value to the state, and they offer some compensation when acquiring it.

Its currently happening in Ireland with the plans for MetroLink for example. It also happened when the Port Tunnel was being built. Both are as strategic to Ireland for its own reasons, as water and food supply concerns are to Israel.

Biker79

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Palestinian people of Gaza and the West Bank are denied freedom of movement, denied economic necessities like an airport or port that would help them develop their economy, denied equal property rights that Jews enjoy, denied citizenship, denied the right of return that only Jews enjoy. Oh and they have been forced out of their lands by Israel since 1948. Why does does such a "tolerant" state treat millions of people like that??

A lot of those points you raise are tied to national security. The others I've referred to in my post above.

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

' Evicting ' is such a hyperbolic Woke term in this context, but in reality its more like a compulsory purchase order, where land is of strategic value to the state, and they offer some compensation when acquiring it.

How long did it take you to wind up in this many knots?



Even Pro-Israel Wall Street Journal called it evictions because they are.

Timberrrrrrrr

Biker79 wrote: »

It is the most tolerant, in a region of intolerance and extremely violent tribalism - absolutely.

Not sure about the 'little or no' rights of 4 million people? Most non Jewish people from the region are happier living in Israel, due to better employment prospects, safety, healthcare etc.

The Ethiopian Jews who face systemic racism would disagree with this.

Biker79

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The Ethiopian Jews who face systemic racism would disagree with this.

Really? Are you speaking on their behalf?

Awfully decent of you.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

no advanced warning was given, and even if it is, attacking a building

There was advanced warnings given and the building was completely evacuated , before it was flattened

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

' Evicting ' is such a hyperbolic Woke term in this context, but in reality its more like a compulsory purchase order, where land is of strategic value to the state, and they offer some compensation when acquiring it.

Its currently happening in Ireland with the plans for MetroLink for example. It also happened when the Port Tunnel was being built. Both are as strategic to Ireland for its own reasons, as water and food supply concerns are to Israel.

Sweet Jesus. Do you actually believe this stuff?? So the forced expulsion of the 700,000 Palestinians after the 1948 war by the emerging Israeli state, and the ongoing eviction of Palestinians for Jewish settlers is just a CPO like the Port Tunnel. Fckuing hell I've never heard such propaganda. The IDF wouldn't come up with that. :pac:

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

Really? Are you speaking on their behalf?

Awfully decent of you.

Biker79 wrote: »

A lot of those points you raise are tied to national security. The others I've referred to in my post above.

And you're the National Security spokesperson?

Time for another barrel roll. Or just engage the discussion as an honest broker, have you tried that?

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

A lot of those points you raise are tied to national security. The others I've referred to in my post above.

So they aren't a tolerant state was you claimed and are in effect collectively punishing an entire people. Thanks for clarifying

Overheal

Gatling wrote: »

There was advanced warnings given and the building was completely evacuated , before it was flattened

The warning system clearly doesn't work if children are being slaughtered by the dozen.

I think with how much technology has grown since the last siege conflict Israel was not prepared for how easy it was going to be for reports to get out of gaza showing the violence live and in HD. It was a threat to their propaganda war.

No UN or NATO involvement because of US unilateral veto

Odhinn

Biker79 wrote: »

Show me some more details on that. At a guess, they are managing their demographics pragmatically. Educated people/ developed countries tend to have lower birthrates. I'm sure they are careful about being undone by demographics, which is as much to do with national security as anything.

...............l.

You mean like Apartheid South Africa.

Biker79

Biker79 wrote: »

Show me some more details on that. At a guess, they are managing their demographics pragmatically. Educated people/ developed countries tend to have lower birthrates. I'm sure they are careful about being undone by demographics, which is as much to do with national security as anything.

Regarding land occupation, aside from a religious right to lands, which I don't know the details of, land rights have fundamentally gone to those who have shown a better capacity to utilize that land. Its extremely important in a geography such as theirs because food has to be grown for 15 million people, and water has to be managed and dispersed to same.



' Evicting ' is such a hyperbolic Woke term in this context, but in reality its more like a compulsory purchase order, where land is of strategic value to the state, and they offer some compensation when acquiring it.

Its currently happening in Ireland with the plans for MetroLink for example. It also happened when the Port Tunnel was being built. Both are as strategic to Ireland for its own reasons, as water and food supply concerns are to Israel.

Wow

Timberrrrrrrr

Biker79 wrote: »

Really? Are you speaking on their behalf?

Awfully decent of you.

Yes, because people need to be reminded that Israel threats them differently.

Forced sterilisation anyone?

Timberrrrrrrr

Gatling wrote: »

There was advanced warnings given and the building was completely evacuated , before it was flattened

And that makes it acceptable?

Biker79

Odhinn wrote: »

You mean like Apartheid South Africa.

SA was never surrounded by hostile forces trying to wipe them out.

Although, don't mention that to their farmers.

Overheal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yes, because people need to be reminded that Israel threats them differently.

Forced sterilisation anyone?

Do please expand for the record

Odhinn

Gatling wrote: »

There was advanced warnings given and the building was completely evacuated , before it was flattened

Lets be honest, its a series of 'punishment strikes' in retaliation for resistance to its occupation of Arab East Jerusalem.

thomas 123

Biker79 wrote: »

Show me some more details on that. At a guess, they are managing their demographics pragmatically. Educated people/ developed countries tend to have lower birthrates. I'm sure they are careful about being undone by demographics, which is as much to do with national security as anything.

Regarding land occupation, aside from a religious right to lands, which I don't know the details of, land rights have fundamentally gone to those who have shown a better capacity to utilize that land. Its extremely important in a geography such as theirs because food has to be grown for 15 million people, and water has to be managed and dispersed to same.



' Evicting ' is such a hyperbolic Woke term in this context, but in reality its more like a compulsory purchase order, where land is of strategic value to the state, and they offer some compensation when acquiring it.

Its currently happening in Ireland with the plans for MetroLink for example. It also happened when the Port Tunnel was being built. Both are as strategic to Ireland for its own reasons, as water and food supply concerns are to Israel.

Compulsory state purchase on a people not represented at all in the state. Pull the other one.

You on here calling people woke yet you are the one massaging laungauge to suit your rhetoric...