Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

jam_mac_jam

se25 wrote: »

So maybe the people in Gaza should not support Hamas..
Elect a moderate Govt that the Egyptians can deal with and move on to a more open relationship with Egypt that negates the border with Israel.

Of course they shouldn't. Hamas are scumbags.

Maybe Israelis should stop voting in far right parties. And negotiations would be more likely.

As there was in the past when Likud was not in power. Strangely enough there are extreme views on both sides.

xhomelezz

namloc1980 wrote: »

Calling out Israel for its treatment of the Palestinian people, the ethnic cleansing it has committed and the continued displacement of those people is now a "crusade" and a "joke". Interesting perspective.

Just my own opinion. As good as yours I believe. Interesting perspective isn't it.

moceri

se25 wrote: »

Can someone please explain why the Gaza/Egypt border is not opened ? Is it always shut ? Are the Egyptians not willing to help their Arab brothers ?

Hamas has links to the Muslim Brotherhood, which was in power in Egypt until its 2013 ouster by the current president, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.

namloc1980

xhomelezz wrote: »

Just my own opinion. As good as yours I believe. Interesting perspective isn't it.

If you want to simply ignore the treatment of the Palestinian people by Israel that's your choice. Turning a blind eye to ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the continued military occupation of Palestine is what Israel would like everyone in the world to do. It won't happen though.

Selenophile

Overheal wrote: »

That’s some very fanciful texas sharpshooting

Perhaps see my posts earlier in the day clearly stating that Israel in general has a right to exist. The right of an ethno-state to commit genocide is not so defended however.

As you may have noticed in my initial post, you were not the target of it, and I moved over it as a bad choice of words. The point is that such words carry a very dangerous meaning, and are a well known position for several actors in that region.

se25

Overheal wrote: »

Is this reason enough to genocide them? Wouldn't it make Israel a terror-state if it uses terrorism as a means of coercing the bombing victims in Palestine into not supporting a political ideology? It seems to me that's patently an act of terrorism.

Can somebody on here please tell me if Hamas are the legitimate elected authority of Gaza and its people ?
Have a poor understanding of Palestinian politics and would like to know if they are the most popular choice or or other voices ignored.
Are they popular in the West Bank ?
They seem to be very extreme and surely not very electable in a free and fair election.

xhomelezz

namloc1980 wrote: »

If you want to simply ignore the treatment of the Palestinian people by Israel that's your choice. Turning a blind eye to ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the continued military occupation of Palestine is what Israel would like everyone in the world to do. It won't happen though.

Ah whatever, seriously. Palestinians are victims, period. Israelis are bad, period. Too simplistic view.

Selenophile

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There is of course because you quoted what he said but highlighted the words that made your argument

The full quote was



The bolded part you left out is the important part.

OK, so which State of Israel is "born purposefully of genocide" ?

Selenophile

se25 wrote: »

Can somebody on here please tell me if Hamas are the legitimate elected authority of Gaza and its people ?
Have a poor understanding of Palestinian politics and would like to know if they are the most popular choice or or other voices ignored.
Are they popular in the West Bank ?
They seem to be very extreme and surely not very electable in a free and fair election.

I think it would be best for you to read an article on Wikipedia about conflict between Hamas and Fatah. There is blood between these two parties. That would explain how hard is to talk about legitimacy here.

Timberrrrrrrr

Selenophile wrote: »

OK, so which State of Israel is "born purposefully of genocide" ?

The one that doesn't let Palestinians fish to feed thier families, the one that kills children, the one that blocks covid vaccines, the one that forcibly sterilised women.

Don't pretend Israel is a bastion of freedom when the above has all happened.

Selenophile

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The one that doesn't let Palestinians fish to feed thier families, the one that kills children, the one that blocks covid vaccines, the one that forcibly sterilised women.

Don't pretend Israel is a bastion of freedom when the above has all happened.

You and me don't debate about what I pretend or not, but about that one quote.

So, to sum it up, when he says: "A Jewish Ethno-State of Israel, born purposefully of genocide, does not have a right to exist", doesn't mean that State of Israel does not have a right to exist - on the contrary, it has the right to exist, although according to ( both of ? or only ) you it is a state that is born purposefully of genocide... which is slightly in contradiction with the original statement.

harmless

Gaza under very heavy attack right now

PeggyShippen

namloc1980 wrote: »

If you want to simply ignore the treatment of the Palestinian people by Israel that's your choice. Turning a blind eye to ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the continued military occupation of Palestine is what Israel would like everyone in the world to do. It won't happen though.

There's no ethnic cleansing. If Israel wanted to they could expel every Arab from Gaza and the west Bank . Thats the reality. And if everyone ganged up on them they could threaten to nuke them. Those are the cold hard facts. Israel goes out if its way to avoid killing civilians but in Ireland they are public enemy number 1.a proportion in Ireland go for the sneaky terrorist...like they tacitly supported the IRA.

Danzy

namloc1980 wrote: »

Calling out Israel for its treatment of the Palestinian people, the ethnic cleansing it has committed and the continued displacement of those people is now a "crusade" and a "joke". Interesting perspective.

Think he is referencing the near mythical status Palestine has in the modern Left.

It often appears to be the one thing that they will all agree on and truly care about.

No doubt it is awful but there is more to it, maybe it's just more exciting to middle class activists than the humdrum issues facing the Proles.

Tyrone212

harmless wrote: »

Gaza under very heavy attack right now

I wonder how many kids the Israelis will kill tonight with impunity.

harmless

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I wonder how many kids the Israelis will kill tonight with impunity.

Initial reports are that this night is worse than last night.
Even more roads were a target so it's increasingly difficult to provide aid to the injured.

SafeSurfer

Danzy wrote: »

Think he is referencing the near mythical status Palestine has in the modern Left.

It often appears to be the one thing that they will all agree on and truly care about.

No doubt it is awful but there is more to it, maybe it's just more exciting to middle class activists than the humdrum issues facing the Proles.

When countries who have fought wars to defend and promote democracy send billions in annual military aid to a state akin to apartheid era South Africa it is only natural that it will attract criticism.

The US capitulated in the Angolan civil war rather than back UNITA which would have allied them with and therefore serve to legitimise the apartheid state of South Africa.

Israel’s international capital and international standing is diminishing with every day of bombardment of Gaza.

A new generation of politicians may not be as beholden to the Israeli lobby as was previously the case.

The long term security of Israelis depends on living with their neighbours not killing them.

namloc1980

PeggyShippen wrote: »

There's no ethnic cleansing. If Israel wanted to they could expel every Arab from Gaza and the west Bank . Thats the reality. And if everyone ganged up on them they could threaten to nuke them. Those are the cold hard facts. Israel goes out if its way to avoid killing civilians but in Ireland they are public enemy number 1.a proportion in Ireland go for the sneaky terrorist...like they tacitly supported the IRA.

700,000 Palestinians were expelled by Israel when it was founded. Palestinian towns and villages were destroyed and the people were forced into ghettos and refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza strip and beyond. The effects of this are still being felt today as we can see. It's the dictionary definition of ethnic cleansing.

end of the road

PeggyShippen wrote: »

There's no ethnic cleansing. If Israel wanted to they could expel every Arab from Gaza and the west Bank . Thats the reality. And if everyone ganged up on them they could threaten to nuke them. Those are the cold hard facts. Israel goes out if its way to avoid killing civilians but in Ireland they are public enemy number 1.a proportion in Ireland go for the sneaky terrorist...like they tacitly supported the IRA.

there is ethnic cleansing. israel prefers to engage in drip ethnic cleansing then simply expelling arabs as they want to ultimately illiminate the palestinian people.
if everyone ganged up on them, israel could threaten to nuke all they like, but the truth is that nobody would listen, and if israel fired nukes there would be enough nukes elsewhere to wipe them off the face of the earth multiple times over, and they would be used against it, probably the minute it made the threat.
israel deliberately targets civilians and is just as much of a terrorist
as any other terrorist organisation, since it has engaged in all of the actions of terrorism.

political analyst

Obviously, Coveney wants the current hostilities between Israel and Hamas to end. But why is he not condemning the Hamas rocket attacks?

harmless

political analyst wrote: »

Obviously, Coveney wants the current hostilities between Israel and Hamas to end. But why is he not condemning the Hamas rocket attacks?

Because one side is an unrecognised origination and the other is a legitimate country recognised by Ireland and are currently committing war crimes not just defending themselves. Ireland has many contacts with Israel but no link to communicate with Hamas.

carlirl

See the antisemite thugs out in force in Jewish area of london, very concerning for the public..... this is what we need to keep out of Ireland

"Martin Daubney
@MartinDaubney
3h
The police need to arrest these vile fascists - it’s a direct incitement to violence, sex crime & hatred against our Jewish community

No excuses: these scum need a boot putting through their doors ASAP. There is no place for this in Britain"
Quote Tweet
@gunnerpunner
· 4h
Finchley Road. North London. 2021.

Genuinely terrifying.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1393920559243829248
Fortunately the scum have been arrested.

carlirl

Son of Palestinian leader exposed Hamas in UN and the whole international community was stunned to hear what he said

carlirl

This is some slap-down for the antisemites..... as can be seen on the faces of the Palestine UN contingent

https://twitter.com/i/status/1393136255001632768

political analyst

harmless wrote: »

Because one side is an unrecognised origination and the other is a legitimate country recognised by Ireland and are currently committing war crimes not just defending themselves. Ireland has many contacts with Israel but no link to communicate with Hamas.

The Israeli airstrikes are aimed at Hamas. The airstrikes are not intended to kill civilians. The airstrikes are taking place because Hamas fired rockets at Israel.

riclad

The air strikes are aimed at Hamas but they are destroying roads
infrastructure water supply's cutting off power to many areas
its effecting all civilians
And there are many innocent civilians being killed
There's no where safe to go in Gaza
And there's a blockade on stopping most materials being brought in
Israel relys on American support they are getting critized by the squad and some Democrats in the senate
Israel gets billions in military aid from america
The effect of the air strikes seem to be mainly to kill
civilians and children
I think Hamas are like the IRA of Gaza
Not all Palestinians support them

carlirl

political analyst wrote: »

The Israeli airstrikes are aimed at Hamas. The airstrikes are not intended to kill civilians. The airstrikes are taking place because Hamas fired rockets at Israel.

Correct.

Solution is quite simple - stop the rockets, the airstrikes will stop.

99nsr125

cnocbui wrote: »

bubblypop and markodaly would be two.

Good call

coinop

carlirl wrote: »

This is some slap-down for the antisemites..... as can be seen on the faces of the Palestine UN contingent

https://twitter.com/i/status/1393136255001632768

Powerful video. The juxtaposition of lectures on human rights from Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan and North Korea (lol) with the son of a Palestinian leader condemning Hamas. I expect it to be ignored. Irish people posting online surely know more about the situation on the ground than a guy who grew up in Ramallah under the unelected Hamas regime.

Overheal

carlirl wrote: »

Correct.

Solution is quite simple - stop the rockets, the airstrikes will stop.

According to who?