Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

thomas 123

Pussyhands wrote: »

Did you support 9/11?

Did you support ISIS beheading American journalists?

Did you support the gunning down of Irish people on a Tunisian beach?

None of these things are to do with Israel and Palastine.

Can we try stay on topic?

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ah nice. Answering a question with a question. Classic diversionary tactics.

Unfortunately for you the world isn't black and white.

What an unnecessarily argumentative and combative reply.

I asked because it's important to know if people are staunchly entrenched in a political mindset before engaging in an honest conversation with them.

Hardly diversionary. Quite the opposite. It was intended to keep the conversation honest and pointed rather than hurling one opinion against the opposite without room for discussion.
Asking for clarification is literally the opposite of trying to divert attention.

The world isn't black or white but some people have very immovable opinions and outlooks and don't recognise nuance.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

What an unnecessarily argumentative and combative reply.

I asked because it's important to know if people are staunchly entrenched in a political mindset before engaging in an honest conversation with them.

Hardly diversionary. Quite the opposite. It was intended to keep the conversation honest and pointed rather than hurling one opinion against the opposite without room for discussion.
Asking for clarification is literally the opposite of trying to divert attention.

The world isn't black or white but some people have very immovable opinions and outlooks and don't recognise nuance.

You refused to answer the question and instead deflected with a question. If you want to debate then address the question or will it continue to be deflected?

Experience_day

I'm honest enough to admit I don't know that much about the conflict.


But did Hamas not start it first this time with their rockets? If so surely on this occasion (taking it in isolation) they are to blame for this fck up?

Signore Fancy Pants

Piehead wrote: »

What ever happened to the Sh’ite Immal militia? They seemed to be a regional force some years back

Amal disbanded, some personnel merged with the Lebanese military.

zom

I afraid Palestinians are lost case here, they have international support and sympathy but their aggressor is hungry for lands and conquer having backup from greater power on the planet at the moment there is no hope for them. Israel is on early stage of colonial hype, similar to England in Cromwell times or France in Napoleon era. They will have ambitions to be top player on Middle East, they need lands to do it. I wouldn't be surprised to see them grabbing Lebanon next, and possibly Egypt as is also treat to their superiority.

thomas 123

Experience_day wrote: »

I'm honest enough to admit I don't know that much about the conflict.


But did Hamas not start it first this time with their rockets? If so surely on this occasion (taking it in isolation) they are to blame for this fck up?

No, Israel sent the army into east Jerusalem to break up Muslim eid, they went so far as into the temple. Plenty of videos of them beating woman Etc.

As you would expect a few stones and bottles were fired back at them by the palastinian men and other Muslims living in east Jerusalem.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

You refused to answer the question and instead deflected with a question. If you want to debate then address the question or will it continue to be deflected?

You would like me to answer what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?

Ok.

The difference is the individuals acceptance of the legitimacy of the group's political aims and whether their actions are deemed just.

Which is why I asked if you consider Hamas to be freedom fighters as it would suggest you believe their actions to be righteous.

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You would like me to answer what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?

Ok.

The difference is the individuals acceptance of the legitimacy of the group's political aims and whether their actions are deemed just.

Which is why I asked if you consider Hamas to be freedom fighters as it would suggest you believe their actions to be righteous.

Do you consider the planting of the West Bank to be righteous?

namloc1980

Experience_day wrote: »

I'm honest enough to admit I don't know that much about the conflict.


But did Hamas not start it first this time with their rockets? If so surely on this occasion (taking it in isolation) they are to blame for this fck up?

No. This kicked it off. Attacking Islam's 3rd most holy site is a massively egregious thing for Muslims.

.

And this - the forced eviction of Palestinian families from East Jerusalem to be supplanted by Jewish settlers (many of whom are from Europe and America with zero connection to the place).

.

And then people wonder why the Palestinians fight back!

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

You would like me to answer what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?

Ok.

The difference is the individuals acceptance of the legitimacy of the group's political aims and whether their actions are deemed just.

Which is why I asked if you consider Hamas to be freedom fighters as it would suggest you believe their actions to be righteous.

I can fully understand why Palestinians fight back against their oppressor who has hemmed them into an open air prison in Gaza and bombs their homes and kills their children. Throughout history the oppressed have always resisted against their oppressor. You don't need to look to far to see similar in Ireland's history.

harmless

Experience_day wrote: »

I'm honest enough to admit I don't know that much about the conflict.


But did Hamas not start it first this time with their rockets? If so surely on this occasion (taking it in isolation) they are to blame for this fck up?

Because it's Isreal/Palestine there is never an easy answer.

I believe this started the current tensions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57034237

Al-Aqsa mosque is the 3rd most holy site for Muslims and many traditionally gather there at the end of Ramadan.
Israel had tried to block off the mosque because of tensions over the pending evictions of Palestinians from East Jerusalem.

The way the country is divided up it is unlikely any from Gaza would make it to mosque. It is rare that they are permitted to leave the strip. However the actions of attacking the mosque seemed to anger Hamas.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/Blagzoney_/status/1394034936701726721?s=20

Mimon

Experience_day wrote: »

I'm honest enough to admit I don't know that much about the conflict.


But did Hamas not start it first this time with their rockets? If so surely on this occasion (taking it in isolation) they are to blame for this fck up?

No. It's a highly complex situation but Israel is continuing a land grab and pursuing an ethnic cleansing strategy while having an Apartheid system in place. These are the roots of the problem.

thomas 123

Mimon wrote: »

No. It's a highly complex situation but Israel is continuing a land grab and pursuing an ethnic cleansing strategy while having an Apartheid system in place. These are the roots of the problem.

The roots that will be ignored conviently along with the facts as “HaMAs FIriNg RoKit”

harmless

Mimon wrote: »

No. It's a highly complex situation but Israel is continuing a land grab and pursuing an ethnic cleansing strategy while having an Apartheid system in place. These are the roots of the problem.

Firing primitive rockets that are practically unguided is wrong and would mostly hit civilians.

But what are the alternatives when they lose land year after year and what little land they have is policed like a prison. Palestinians need travel permit to move around Israel and are only permitted to hold elections on very rare occasions. (decades apart)
Even in these elections they are segregated by where they live and can not vote in the same election.
This is the only method they have of gaining international attention.

Donald Trump

Pussyhands wrote: »

Once again, I will ask, all those defending Palestineans supporting Hamas....did you also support ISIS beheading American journalists?

Well sure I might as well ask you in response.



For all those defending a state concentrating of an ethnically distinct minority inside an open air ghetto prison and stealing the property of that minority and leaving them to die in squalor ..... did you also support that a certain European country did similar 80 odd years ago?

Pussyhands

namloc1980 wrote: »

I can fully understand why Palestinians fight back against their oppressor who has hemmed them into an open air prison in Gaza and bombs their homes and kills their children. Throughout history the oppressed have always resisted against their oppressor. You don't need to look to far to see similar in Ireland's history.

Do you support Palestine bombing Israel?

thomas 123

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you support Palestine bombing Israel?

I would like to say I don’t condone violence but I can certainly see why People in Palastine may turn to it...

Please answer:

Do you support the planting of Israeli settlers on the West Bank? Do you support forced evictions and the dersructon of palastinian homes and businesses? Do you support a state led apartheid style regime with second and third class citizens?

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

You would like me to answer what's the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist?

Ok.

The difference is the individuals acceptance of the legitimacy of the group's political aims and whether their actions are deemed just.

Which is why I asked if you consider Hamas to be freedom fighters as it would suggest you believe their actions to be righteous.

If you are to take the literal meaning of ‘terrorist’... then Hamas, are terrorists, yes..

By the definition of that word, so 100% are the state of Israel, they are terrorists...

“a person or people who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.”

namloc1980

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you support Palestine bombing Israel?

Palestine doesn't bomb Israel. Palestine doesn't have an army or an air force or anything like that. If you mean the unguided rocket attacks then I can understand why they do it. It's tragic if any civilian is killed as a result but I fully understand why they do it. Like any oppressed people you fight back with whatever you got. Especially against an entity that murders your children, destroys your infrastructure, imprisons you in an open air ghetto and refuses to acknowledge your right to national self-determination.

Put yourself in a Gazans shoes for a minute. You have no economy because your oppressor will not allow you have an airport or port to build your economy, you have limited fishing rights because your oppressor blockades your sea access, your children have no future, you live in poverty and there is a 50% unemployment. Your oppressor refuses to allow you freedom of movement, you are in effect stateless with no rights and they steal your lands and give it to imported colonisers. How would you react?

Baggly

Pussyhands wrote: »

According to history.

Have you ever seen Israel send the first rocket?

Pussyhands wrote: »

Once again, I will ask, all those defending Palestineans supporting Hamas....did you also support ISIS beheading American journalists?

Pussyhands wrote: »

Hello buddy,

No they weren't firing rockets from there but they had an intelligence command center there....how surprising....a location with communications equipment would be used by Hamas.

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's a very valid question.

If you support Palestineans being terrorists because "sure why wouldn't they when their parents are killed", then it's the exact same situation, except ISIS killed Europeans and Americans, not Jews.

Pussyhands wrote: »

Did you support 9/11?

Did you support ISIS beheading American journalists?

Did you support the gunning down of Irish people on a Tunisian beach?

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you support Palestine bombing Israel?

Mod

Improve the standard of your posts in this thread or you will lose posting privileges in it.

Timberrrrrrrr

Pussyhands wrote: »

Do you support Palestine bombing Israel?

Did you support Ireland planting bombs in Birmingham, Warrington, London back in the day?

harmless

Israel slowly remove homes and rights from Palestines while powerful counties fund and enable them to do so.
The media does not care and most people around the world do not know about it.

But when Hamas fire barrages of rockets the whole world takes notice of the injustice in the state of Israel. And protest against Israel.
Unfortunately there may not be any other other effective option to highlight the situation there.

Pussyhands

thomas 123 wrote: »

I would like to say I don’t condone violence but I can certainly see why People in Palastine may turn to it...

Please answer:

Do you support the planting of Israeli settlers on the West Bank? Do you support forced evictions and the dersructon of palastinian homes and businesses? Do you support a state led apartheid style regime with second and third class citizens?

I mean, if you're against Israel because they're an apartheid regime, how can you support Palestine who wants to wipe Israel off the map?

Where do jews go?

Pussyhands

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you support Ireland planting bombs in Birmingham, Warrington, London back in the day?

Absolutely not!

harmless

Pussyhands wrote: »

Absolutely not!

Would we have the good Friday Agreement without the provisional IRA's actions?

thomas 123

Pussyhands wrote: »

I mean, if you're against Israel because they're an apartheid regime, how can you support Palestine who wants to wipe Israel off the map?

Where do jews go?

You did not answer my questions.(so surprised)

Can you try at least? A debate does not work if we only pick and choose facts.

Can you share any recent examples of palastinian people taking over Israeli land and moving their own people In?

Fandymo

Pussyhands wrote: »

Hello buddy,

No they weren't firing rockets from there but they had an intelligence command center there....how surprising....a location with communications equipment would be used by Hamas.

And did he show the evidence yet? He said it would be released ASAP. It’s not like the IDF to lie.

Housefree

I know it's a disparaging article but it has the word apartheid in it 14 times, breaking barriers for the US media either way
https://www.foxnews.com/media/aoc-objects-to-news-site-calling-her-israel-criticism-an-outburst-draws-quick-backlash