Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

zom

Hoboo wrote: »

According to the Israeli army, Hamas has fired 3000 rockets into Israel in the past week. The iron curtain intercepted 1000.

Where did the other 2000 land?

“In terms of its operational use in Israel the system has been designed to be able to deal with salvo fires of rockets, prioritising which represent a threat to the defended area and which to ignore given the rocket’s trajectory.”
https://www.army-technology.com/news/us-army-confirms-iron-dome-air-defence-system-purchase/

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Invoking 9/11, as that poster did, is just drawing false equivalences that are not valid points and add nothing to this debate. 9/11 has nothing to do with the ongoing Palestinian-Israel conflict and it is nothing but whataboutery to try to introduce it.

Again, im not saying that it is tied into this conflict, but the reasons for the mentioned attacks are extremely similar to the excuses given in this conflict.

It would be hard to admit you agree with Hamas fighting back against Israel due to atrocities and yet condemn Al Qaeda for fighting back against the USA.

It's a question which asks if people's views are consistent.

Shebean

Absolutely nobody supports Israel based on a moral or ethical belief. The stock answer 'right to defend itself' is script and very telling.
If Israel wasn't a player with strong lobbying they'd be classed as Arabs fighting Arabs.
Attacking the press was a big mistake. Everyone with a smartphone can report. Israel is building the case against Israel.
Netenyahu is loving the bloodshed. Keeps attention off his criminal dealings and inability to form a government. He is putting Israeli and Palestinian lives on the line for his own benefit.

nelly17

zom wrote: »

“In terms of its operational use in Israel the system has been designed to be able to deal with salvo fires of rockets, prioritising which represent a threat to the defended area and which to ignore given the rocket’s trajectory.”
https://www.army-technology.com/news/us-army-confirms-iron-dome-air-defence-system-purchase/

There is apparently a point at which the Iron Dome can become overwhelmed according to the manufacturer and that information has not been made public, which is probably why you see larger and larger sorties of rockets being fired. Also it worth pointing out that Hamas very often say that they are willing to talk cease fire once their stocks of rockets are depleted to buy time to get more prepared.

Im not justifying anything here just pointing out some additional complexities.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, im not saying that it is tied into this conflict, but the reasons for the mentioned attacks are extremely similar to the excuses given in this conflict.

It would be hard to admit you agree with Hamas fighting back against Israel due to atrocities and yet condemn Al Qaeda for fighting back against the USA.

It's a question which asks if people's views are consistent.

Hamas and the PLO are resistance forces. Israel is occupying and colonising their lands, The comparison with Al Qaeda is nonsense and is just there to muddy the waters.

cnocbui

Hoboo wrote: »

According to the Israeli army, Hamas has fired 3000 rockets into Israel in the past week. The iron curtain intercepted 1000.

Where did the other 2000 land?

They seem to be tripping over their own lies. The recently reported intercept rate is 80-90%, not 33%.

wes

nelly17 wrote: »

Also it worth pointing out that Hamas very often say that they are willing to talk cease fire once their stocks of rockets are depleted to buy time to get more prepared.

Except in this instance, Hamas has offered a cease fire twice, and has been able to fire rockets this whole time. I think if fair to say that statement is not accurate.

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know. What do you think? When Hamas launch their thousands of rockets toward residential areas in Israel, are they trying to hit those targets? Are they committing war crimes?

If its not a war crime when Israel does it, why would it be when Hamas does it?

Overheal

cnocbui wrote: »

They seem to be tripping over their own lies. The recently reported intercept rate is 80-90%, not 33%.

That's the advertised system effectiveness, though it's possible the 1000 refers to the ones the system tracked as warranting interception, the rest not endangering zones designated to defend by the system, eg. ones that will just hit an open field which you don't need to lob a $40,000 interceptor missile at. that 80% would be the success rate of intercepting an active target of interception - the missile can still miss it's intended target, eg. if the Hamas qassam rocket has an irregular flight path.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree.

I think it's good to put up some comparisons to see if your position is consistent over different scenarios or to see if you pick and choose when you apply the same standards.

The inability to answer to such indicates that you are aware you hold a bias that doesn't hold up.

Deflection would be trying to drag it off topic. This isn't doing so. It's holding up the same standards across different scenarios.

You know this.

The real deflection is shouting "whataboutism" for any question you are uncomfortable answering.

And which Israeli skyscraper did Hamas blow up with a passenger jet?

What is the equivalency you wish to present, then, which is not a false equivalency?

Al Qaeda didn't terrorize the US because the US gassed the third holiest site in Islam; Al Qaeda in turn was an insurgent movement fighting in countries which were being invaded in a ground and air war by the United States, and I hardly think there is an argument being put forth that the Iraqis and Afghanis etc. had no right to defend themselves? That right doesn't go away because you don't greet the invader as your liberator. Is Hamas engaged in any global terror? Bus bombings in London etc?

MeMen2_MoRi_

Anything to be said about being caught in another lie?

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1394285739580530690?s=19

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, im not saying that it is tied into this conflict, but the reasons for the mentioned attacks are extremely similar to the excuses given in this conflict.

It would be hard to admit you agree with Hamas fighting back against Israel due to atrocities and yet condemn Al Qaeda for fighting back against the USA.

It's a question which asks if people's views are consistent.

The bit in bold belies your lack of understanding and it's a pretty nonsense comparison. Al-Qaeda, and ISIS for that matter, are Islamic salafist jihadist organisations that specifically reject nationalism and seeks a pan-Islamic caliphate. In fact both have previously rejected Hamas for being too secular and too nationalistic!

Hamas, and most other Palestinian organisations, are first and foremost Palestinian nationalist movements that are engaged in an armed struggle against Israel for reasons already covered. But mainly to seek a Palestine nation free of Zionism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israel in the years after the war in 1948/49 and the continued displacement of Palestinians.

They are chalk and cheese but I know why you are trying to conflate them. It is an attempt to stifle debate and paint anyone who supports Palestinians right to self determination and resistance as some sort of Islamic jihadi Al-Qaeda sympathiser. It's beyond silly and is further an attempt to paint all the muslims as the same bad guys. The world is much more complicated than that.

wes

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Anything to be said about being caught in another lie?

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1394285739580530690?s=19

And yet people on here expect us to believe a word the IDF says. They are pathological with the lies at this point.

Biker79

The IDF are more credible than any grifter on Twitter, or any Woke leftist for that matter.

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

The IDF are more credible than any grifter on Twitter, or any Woke leftist for that matter.

To you

tayto lover

carlirl wrote: »

Lets hear what Mrs Merkel has to say,

"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has called for an end to the violence as soon as possible while speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

However, she expressed Germany's "solidarity" with Israel in the conflict.

"The chancellor again sharply condemned the continued rocket attacks from Gaza on Israel and assured the prime minister of the German government's solidarity," her spokesman, Steffen Seibert, said.

"She reaffirmed Israel's right to defend itself against the attacks."

No surprise that the country with the all-time worst humanitarian record defends the country with the second worst. Peas in a pod.

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

The IDF are more credible than any grifter on Twitter, or any Woke leftist for that matter.

They got caught lying on Twitter claiming a video showed a rocket launcher in Gaza in a residential area, proof they said, that Hamas are baddies. Unfortunately for them it turned out the video was actually of an Israeli military vehicle in northern Israel from 2018. But yeah, they are trustworthy. :pac:

.

Overheal

tayto lover wrote: »

No surprise that the country with the all-time worst humanitarian record defends the country with the second worst. Peas in a pod.

What's startling though is how times have otherwise changed them: Germany is far more liberal, and Israel declared itself a Jewish Ethno State.

Biker79

namloc1980 wrote: »

They got caught lying on Twitter claiming a video showed a rocket launcher in Gaza in a residential area, proof they said, that Hamas are baddies. Unfortunately for them it turned out the video was actually of an Israeli military vehicle in northern Israel from 2018. But yeah, they are trustworthy. :pac:

Caught lying on twitter? Twitter is a cesspool of liars, so am not sure how that makes any sense.

My guess is that your post is in itself, a complete fabrication. Just a hunch.

biko

The aggressions are spreading.
I can't make out the name of the person they invade the home of.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1394336887301558274?s=20

antgal23

biko wrote: »

The aggressions are spreading.
I can't make out the name of the person they invade the home of.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1394336887301558274?s=20

So what exactly does this have to do with Israeli war crimes ?

Overheal

biko wrote: »

The aggressions are spreading.
I can't make out the name of the person they invade the home of.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1394336887301558274?s=20

I see he didn't have enough characters left to say "video allegedly shows"

namloc1980

Biker79 wrote: »

Caught lying on twitter? Twitter is a cesspool of liars, so am not sure how that makes any sense.

My guess is that your post is in itself, a complete fabrication. Just a hunch.

So you agree the IDF are liars, thanks for confirming. The IDF deleted the post but as you know yourself nothing can be fully deleted. It was even posted earlier last week here by the pro-IDF crowd as proof of how evil Hamas are. Looks like that backfired badly. :pac:

Overheal

Biker79 wrote: »

Caught lying on twitter? Twitter is a cesspool of liars, so am not sure how that makes any sense.

My guess is that your post is in itself, a complete fabrication. Just a hunch.

biko wrote: »

The aggressions are spreading.
I can't make out the name of the person they invade the home of.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1394336887301558274?s=20

Oh man, this is awkward.

arctictree

Can someone explain to me how a protest with hundreds of people went ahead in Dublin yesterday?

wes

biko wrote: »

The aggressions are spreading.
I can't make out the name of the person they invade the home of.


https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1394336887301558274?s=20

Andy Ngo, the guy that allegedly made a kill list for a white supremacist terrorist organization:
Andy Ngo and the Atomwaffen Kill List


Also, a man of questionable credibility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo#Credibility

Yeah, I know its wikipedia, but wikipedia has more credibility than that man. So I feel fine posting a wikipedia link, but you can just click into the linked news stories showing him for what he is.

Also, hangs out with violent terrorists:
Right-Wing Star Andy Ngo Exits Quillette After Damning Video Surfaces


Not a single thing from that guy can be trusted. He is a well known liar.

Overheal

No rocking of the boat from the Biden Administration yet.

biko

wes wrote: »

Andy Ngo, etc etc

Maybe you were not listening with sound on but it's pretty clear what happens in the video.
Are you saying the home invasion isn't real?

Did you ever bother to watch it, or was it "attack Andy" mode on immediately?

Overheal

wes wrote: »

Andy Ngo, the guy that allegedly made a kill list for a white supremacist terrorist organization:
Andy Ngo and the Atomwaffen Kill List


Also, a man of questionable credibility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo#Credibility

Yeah, I know its wikipedia, but wikipedia has more credibility than that man. So I feel fine posting a wikipedia link, but you can just click into the linked news stories showing him for what he is.

Also, hangs out with violent terrorists:
Right-Wing Star Andy Ngo Exits Quillette After Damning Video Surfaces


Not a single thing from that guy can be trusted. He is a well known liar.

He's sharing it from a twitter account that shares videos from who-the-hell-knows source. In a world that is still freaking out about a years old video of a woman pumping gasoline into a plastic bag, it's irresponsible journalism to present videos like that without highlighting they have not been fully corroborated.

namloc1980

biko wrote: »

Maybe you were not listening with sound on but it's pretty clear what happens in the video.
Are you saying the home invasion isn't real?

Did you ever bother to watch it, or was it "attack Andy" mode on immediately?

It's terrible and nobody should feel threatened in their home. Not on the same scale though as these people who are threatened 24/7 and have had their homes obliterated