Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the Israelis need to ask themselves that even if they can win the war, can they win the peace?

Exactly.

starkid

Israel is really teetering on losing the moral ground. Kind of the same way traditional politics is losing generation Z. Like we see here, the young don't care about SF's history and many of them probably don't care about Israel's (which is good and bad in reality).

In one way if Israel continues this they are in a lose lose situation. Its why they didn't send in troops. The last time was what 2014. 7 years and a pandemic later the World is a far more unforgiving place for misanthropic views.. They'd torpedoe the last bit of goodwill they have. they can't be that stupid.

Muslims are gaining support among the woke and social left because of obvious connotations around the racial debate while a religiously dogmatic state like ISrael is losing ground, much like we see here with traditional religions in the West.

However its why people like myself are worried of that trojan horse and call for balance. Islam is no better than traditional religions, as long as it harbours such terrible views on LGBT rights, women, subjugation etc.

You can be critical of Hamas and Israel.

In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated upon because of their religion.

In the early 20th century, Jews were hated upon because of their race.

Now, in the 21st century, Jews are hated upon because of their nation.

Anti-Semitism is a virus that has mutated throughout the centuries. The reality is that, even if a lasting peace were achieved in the Middle East, the virus is inevitably going to mutate into another dangerous, genocidal form - as it has, and as it always will.

Housefree

eskimohunt wrote: »

In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated upon because of their religion.

In the early 20th century, Jews were hated upon because of their race.

Now, in the 21st century, Jews are hated upon because of their nation.

Anti-Semitism is a virus that has mutated throughout the centuries. The reality is that, even if a lasting peace were achieved in the Middle East, the virus is inevitably going to mutate into another dangerous, genocidal form - as it has, and as it always will.

Israel is hated because it is an Apartheid state. Plenty of Jewish people worldwide Don't agree with Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFumaMF-o28

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated upon because of their religion.

In the early 20th century, Jews were hated upon because of their race.

Now, in the 21st century, Jews are hated upon because of their nation.

Anti-Semitism is a virus that has mutated throughout the centuries. The reality is that, even if a lasting peace were achieved in the Middle East, the virus is inevitably going to mutate into another dangerous, genocidal form - as it has, and as it always will.

Jews are not hated, not on this thread anyway, please stop trying to push this Narritive here.

Any comments made by the majority of posters here have been on the state of Israel.

o1s1n

eskimohunt wrote: »

In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated upon because of their religion.

In the early 20th century, Jews were hated upon because of their race.

Now, in the 21st century, Jews are hated upon because of their nation.

Anti-Semitism is a virus that has mutated throughout the centuries. The reality is that, even if a lasting peace were achieved in the Middle East, the virus is inevitably going to mutate into another dangerous, genocidal form - as it has, and as it always will.

Is there a line Israel could cross in your eyes where they could actually do wrong and those who disagreed weren't 'anti-Semites'?

If Israel decided tomorrow to completely nuke Gaza and kill everyone living there and people condemned these actions, would that be anti-Semitism?

I'm just trying to figure out where you actually draw the line between anti-Semitism and genuine criticism of policy, because everything at the moment seems to be anti-Semitism. If that is the case, it means Israel are infallible and can literally do no wrong in your opinion.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated upon because of their religion.

In the early 20th century, Jews were hated upon because of their race.

Now, in the 21st century, Jews are hated upon because of their nation.

Anti-Semitism is a virus that has mutated throughout the centuries. The reality is that, even if a lasting peace were achieved in the Middle East, the virus is inevitably going to mutate into another dangerous, genocidal form - as it has, and as it always will.

I dont hate Jews, I despise Zionists though.

The only antisemite posting in the thread so far has been you.

Housefree

Housefree wrote: »

Israel is hated because it is an Apartheid state. Plenty of Jewish people worldwide Don't agree with Israel

Yes - and plenty of gay people during the referendum opposed gay marriage.

You'll always find minority exceptions to the general rule - but the general rule still applies regardless.

Furthermore, we can conclusively say that every anti-Semitic person is anti-Zionist. The point is that the vast majority of anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic. Yes, we can point to exceptions, but the rule still applies.

People do not voice anti-Semitic tropes in public. Largely, this is kept under wraps and only voiced when people feel they can get away with it - such as in private settings.

This is the same principle that applies to almost all forms of prejudice and racism. To use the gay equivalent above, most homophobic people will keep the extreme version of their belief to themselves, whilst in public couching their discrimination in more palatable and socially acceptable language.

namloc1980

There can be no debate with someone who conflates people who reject Israeli government Zionist policies with being anti-Jewish. It's just playing the anti Semite card to stifle debate and pigeon hole people. This is the same tactic the Israeli state has used for decades to stifle criticism and shout about racism.

biko

Gaza needs to kick Hamas to the kerb.
We need the more sensible Fatah-led Palestinian Authority to control both areas.

But Hamas kicks off another war they will lose with Israel to gain local political points. They generate local support, and maybe more importantly support from Western left which means money and influence.

thomas 123

biko wrote: »

Gaza needs to kick Hamas to the kerb.
We need the more sensible Fatah-led Palestinian Authority to control both areas.

But Hamas kicks off another war they will lose with Israel to gain local political points. They generate local support, and maybe more importantly support from Western left which means money and influence.

As you know, Israel has total control of the West Bank. The tokenism control given to the palastinians is nothing more than international appeasement.

The racist state of Israel needs to get out of the West Bank and help move towards a palastinian state.

That will never happen though since they gladly settled the West Bank and continue to turf people out of their homes to ensure it never ever had a chance of happening.

thomas 123

thomas 123 wrote: »

The racist state of Israel needs to get out of the West Bank and help move towards a palastinian state.

Hamas is the racist organization that gloats about the extermination of the Jewish people - Naziesque language.

If you want to talk about states of racism, look at Hamas in Gaza.

But you seem less concerned about the Nazi-like language that spews from Hamas. I wonder why...

thomas 123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hamas is the racist organization that gloats about the extermination of the Jewish people - Naziesque language.

If you want to talk about states of racism, look at Hamas in Gaza.

But you seem less concerned about the Nazi-like language that spews from Hamas. I wonder why...

I’m not doing this again with you today, you ignored any effort to debate this yesterday.

Israel is a state, Hamas are an organization/entity not many of us agree with here.

Israel’s actions and it’s governence of the palastinian people is racist - there is no debate there.

Hamas may be nazi like in thought but the state of Israel is actually carrying out actions similar to what the Nazis did during ww2 and before it.

UDAWINNER

starkid wrote: »

Israel is really teetering on losing the moral ground. Kind of the same way traditional politics is losing generation Z. Like we see here, the young don't care about SF's history and many of them probably don't care about Israel's (which is good and bad in reality).

In one way if Israel continues this they are in a lose lose situation. Its why they didn't send in troops. The last time was what 2014. 7 years and a pandemic later the World is a far more unforgiving place for misanthropic views.. They'd torpedoe the last bit of goodwill they have. they can't be that stupid.

Muslims are gaining support among the woke and social left because of obvious connotations around the racial debate while a religiously dogmatic state like ISrael is losing ground, much like we see here with traditional religions in the West.

However its why people like myself are worried of that trojan horse and call for balance. Islam is no better than traditional religions, as long as it harbours such terrible views on LGBT rights, women, subjugation etc.

You can be critical of Hamas and Israel.

Lost this a long time ago, slaughtering innocent families makes them as bad as the Nazis, if they hadn't America as backers, they would have been reigned in years ago. Terrorist State

UDAWINNER

[QUOTE=eskimohunt;117204528]Hamas is the racist organization that gloats about the extermination of the Jewish people - Naziesque language.

If you want to talk about states of racism, look at Hamas in Gaza.

But you seem less concerned about the Nazi-like language that spews from Hamas. I wonder why...[/QUOTE]
At the moment, there is only one group exterminating people, not talking about it, actually doing it and that's the Israelis. When you think all the horror they went through with nazis, you'd think they would have a bit of humanity, obviously not. Sickening that people defend these war mongers especially on this island, then again the same people defend Ballymurphy, Bloody Sunday, etc

UDAWINNER

biko wrote: »

Gaza needs to kick Hamas to the kerb.
We need the more sensible Fatah-led Palestinian Authority to control both areas.

But Hamas kicks off another war they will lose with Israel to gain local political points. They generate local support, and maybe more importantly support from Western left which means money and influence.

Some would say that if Israelis wanted "peace" they would kick Benji and the Likud Party into touch, but obviously some don't

tipptom

eskimohunt wrote: »

Yes - and plenty of gay people during the referendum opposed gay marriage.

You'll always find minority exceptions to the general rule - but the general rule still applies regardless.

Furthermore, we can conclusively say that every anti-Semitic person is anti-Zionist. The point is that the vast majority of anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic. Yes, we can point to exceptions, but the rule still applies.

People do not voice anti-Semitic tropes in public. Largely, this is kept under wraps and only voiced when people feel they can get away with it - such as in private settings.

This is the same principle that applies to almost all forms of prejudice and racism. To use the gay equivalent above, most homophobic people will keep the extreme version of their belief to themselves, whilst in public couching their discrimination in more palatable and socially acceptable language.

You take away your anti semite smear and then you have nothing,thats why you have no option but to continue to perpetuate it.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hamas is the racist organization that gloats about the extermination of the Jewish people - Naziesque language.

If you want to talk about states of racism, look at Hamas in Gaza.

But you seem less concerned about the Nazi-like language that spews from Hamas. I wonder why...

You're concerned about "Nazi like language" yet totally ignore Nazi like actions.

wes

I am seeing on Twitter, Palestinian families are sending some of their children to the homes of family members, so if their house is attacked by the IDF, then the whole family won't be wiped out.

This genocide plain and simple. Entire families being wiped out by IDF terror, paid for by the US, and cheered on by extremist Zionists, who as we seen on videos posted here earlier, demanded "Death to Arabs", and the IDF is happy to oblige them.

Housefree

namloc1980 wrote: »

There can be no debate with someone who conflates people who reject Israeli government Zionist policies with being anti-Jewish. It's just playing the anti Semite card to stifle debate and pigeon hole people. This is the same tactic the Israeli state has used for decades to stifle criticism and shout about racism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xl30Re1EUI

https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes - and plenty of gay people during the referendum opposed gay marriage.

You'll always find minority exceptions to the general rule - but the general rule still applies regardless.

Furthermore, we can conclusively say that every anti-Semitic person is anti-Zionist. The point is that the vast majority of anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic. Yes, we can point to exceptions, but the rule still applies.

People do not voice anti-Semitic tropes in public. Largely, this is kept under wraps and only voiced when people feel they can get away with it - such as in private settings.

This is the same principle that applies to almost all forms of prejudice and racism. To use the gay equivalent above, most homophobic people will keep the extreme version of their belief to themselves, whilst in public couching their discrimination in more palatable and socially acceptable language.

Did you take a poll?

TomSweeney

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I dont hate Jews, I despise Zionists though.

The only antisemite posting in the thread so far has been you.

eskimohunt antisemitic ??? really ?



One of the few posters posting absolute sense on this topic, seems slanderous.

Overheal

TomSweeney wrote: »

eskimohunt antisemitic ??? really ?



One of the few posters posting absolute sense on this topic, seems slanderous.

Not really though. Simultaneously arguing Israel is not Jewish because it’s population is 20% Arab while breathlessly saying criticism of Israel is antisemitic. That’s not sense.

jam_mac_jam

TomSweeney wrote: »

eskimohunt antisemitic ??? really ?



One of the few posters posting absolute sense on this topic, seems slanderous.

Implying all Jewish people feel the same is fairly anti semitic instead of seeing them as individuals with vastly different political opinions.

Plenty of Jewish people support human rights and criticise the actions of Isreal. Including Isrealis.

Timberrrrrrrr

TomSweeney wrote: »

eskimohunt antisemitic ??? really ?



One of the few posters posting absolute sense on this topic, seems slanderous.

He posts anti Palestinian stuff, Palestinians are semites ergo he is anti semetic.

We won't even go into his racist user name.

stuboy01

McWilliams' Monday podcast on the topic was very informative. Tom Friedman was his guest. Its worth a listen, rather than following a line that one side is wrong and the other right. Realistically the current situation suits Netanyahu and Hamas. They are locked in violence together to serve their owns needs. The citizens are expendable pawns.

TomSweeney

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Implying all Jewish people feel the same is fairly anti semitic instead of seeing them as individuals with vastly different political opinions.

Plenty of Jewish people support human rights and criticise the actions of Isreal. Including Isrealis.

Yes and they are free to do so without the threat of being killed, as Muslims in arab states would be if they expressed any support of Israel whatsoever.

TomSweeney

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He posts anti Palestinian stuff, Palestinians are semites ergo he is anti semetic.

We won't even go into his racist user name.

racist user name ??!! Go away outta da!!

TomSweeney

https://youtu.be/gql9Wba1ptc

Benjamin Netanyahu on Face the Nation, this guy just makes complete sense to me.

Timberrrrrrrr

TomSweeney wrote: »

racist user name ??!! Go away outta da!!

Ah I get it, it's only racist if you believe it's racist....Well done :rolleyes: