Israeli - Palestinian Conflict *Threadbans in OP*

wes

For those who conflate being Jewish to being a supporters of Israel, plenty of Jewish people oppose what Israel is doing to Palestinians:

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1395131955222650880?s=20

Overheal

A moment of conscience emerged on Fox this afternoon.

A Wednesday Fox News segment got heated as Geraldo Rivera criticized U.S. support for Israel and Katie Pavlich accused him of pushing “Hamas propaganda.”

Martha MacCallum kicked off the segment Wednesday by saying to Rivera, “It sounds like you are sympathetic to [Congresswoman Rashida] Talib’s argument here.”

“I am indeed, Martha,” Rivera responded.

He directly said it’s “outrageous” that the United States “gave Israel these hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons without insisting on a ceasefire now.”

Pavlich hit back saying, “To ask for a ceasefire from the Israelis at this point in time because Hamas rockets are continuing to be fired is essentially asking the Israelis to stop defending themselves from terrorist attacks.”

“The Israelis can’t afford a ceasefire right now. Hamas still has thousands of rockets that they can fire,” she continued. “Israel is doing what it can to defend its citizens, and asking for a ceasefire before Hamas has stopped is effectively saying we’re willing to let Israeli lives be spent on behalf of a terrorist organization.”

Rivera went on to again criticize U.S. policy and say “Tlaib is right”: "We have dozens of Palestinian children who have been killed in the last week with American bombs. I have no proposed solution to this conflict… I know this, though, Martha. I want our audience — the fact that the United States of America is providing Israel many of the weapons Israel is using today to kill Palestinian civilians without even demanding a ceasefire, Tlaib is right, that makes us complicit in an ongoing crime against humanity."

Pavlich responded by saying he’s making a “dishonest argument… to accuse the Israelis and the Americans of deliberately targeting civilians” when Hamas “deliberately places military targets in schools, in media buildings, in hospitals.”

“They have no place to run. Where are they going to go?” Rivera asked.

“So you’re justifying Hamas using human shields in order to make the argument exactly as you are,” Pavlich said.

“I am saying… that an F-16 going 500 miles an hour is going to kill civilians,” Rivera said.

Pavlich shot back by accusing him of “repeating Hamas propaganda.”

You can watch above, via Fox News.


https://www.mediaite.com/tv/geraldo-rivera-says-us-complicit-in-ongoing-crime-against-humanity-gets-accused-of-hamas-propaganda-in-heated-fox-news-clash/

wes

Heart breaking AP news report about a father holding his last remaining child:

https://twitter.com/malonebarry/status/1395132718409789445?s=20

We know the IDF is wiping out families in an act of genocide. We see plenty of examples of this, being documented online on both social media and by the the regular media as well.

tayto lover

PeggyShippen wrote: »

Why would I listen to your opinion on what is or what isn't anti semitic. I know what's anti semitic and some of these posts here are completely anti semitic. The BAI will be informed . Have you seen some if the anti semitic stuff in the UK over the last few days. If these posts, especially the one I highlighted were on a UK forum the police would be onto the platform. We've terrible anti semitic stuff in Ireland

Tripe. Pure rubbish.
If you shout that much more you’ll even start to believe it yourself.

Tigerbaby

igCorcaigh wrote: »

This endless goading gets us nowhere in the discussion.

Gosh

I'm not goading at all.

Just a straight question; why dont neighbouring Arab states like to help Hamas?

or even Fatah?

Its a strange situation that many of us here in the West regard Israel's actions as barbaric, yet cultural and geographical neighbours do nothing practical to help Palestine.

Why not?

Very simple question.

wes

wes wrote: »

For those who conflate being Jewish to being a supporters of Israel, plenty of Jewish people oppose what Israel is doing Palestinians:

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1395131955222650880?s=20

Some on both sides of the argument certainly do, but I don't think most do as you say conflate being Jewish to being a supporters of Israel,

Then again some who are going on about how Israel is defending themselves against Muslims have actually posted some fairly anti Jewish stuff in the past, so for them it's just a who I dislike more argument.

Pretty much like the American evangelicals who would most likely lynch a Jewish person if given the opportunity, but are quite happy for Israel to exist and for America to support it because they believe it will bring about the end of the world.

wes

Tigerbaby wrote: »

Gosh

I'm not goading at all.

Just a straight question; why dont neighbouring Arab states like to help Hamas?

or even Fatah?

Its a strange situation that many of us here in the West regard Israel's actions as barbaric, yet cultural and geographical neighbours do nothing practical to help Palestine.

Why not?

Very simple question.

Much like Europe before World War 2, a lot of those countries really ****ing hate each other, and the leaders for the most part hate the Palestinians as well, or use them as a prop to help prop up their regime and play lip services to them.

tayto lover

thomas 123 wrote: »

It’s actually not - the nazi treatment of Jews from when they got into power to the start of the war is very similar to what Israel is doing to palastinians now, namely:

Asset stripping
Removing their rights
Giving them no representation
Taking their business
Denying them resources
Forcing them into ghetto style arrangements


Of Course we are not at the camps and mass murders yet, but indescrimiate bombing of non military targets along with the above is a pretty scary way to do business in a country with such a close history with that type of treatment.

And it lacks any sense of empathy. That to me is really amazing. What happened to the Jews was terrible but how Jews can now treat the Palestinians in a very similar way is beyond words. They seem to have learned nothing from the Holocaust. Just beyond belief.

wes

tayto lover wrote: »

Tripe. Pure rubbish.
If you shout that much more you’ll even start to believe it yourself.

Decided to take a look at the BAI complaint website and this what is says:

https://www.bai.ie/en/viewers-listeners/complaints/

All broadcasters in Ireland must ensure that their output is compliant with the law and with the BAI’s codes and standards.

If you think something you saw or heard on Irish radio or tv, in the last 30 days, was not compliant with BAI codes and rules you can make a complaint.
If you think something you saw or heard was factually incorrect giving rise to your honour or reputation being impugned, you can request a right-of-reply under the Right-of-Reply Scheme.
You should always contact the broadcaster in the first instance.

Boards would not be covered as it covers Irish radio or tv. Also, Ireland has no hate speech laws, and to be fair boards mods are pretty good and tackling hate speech for the most part.

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

Pretty much like the American evangelicals who would most likely lynch a Jewish person if given the opportunity, but are quite happy for Israel to exist and for America to support it because they believe it will bring about the end of the world.

I think the religious angle is being underplayed, honestly. You have extremist muslims, jews and christians, all with very similar messianic or apocalyptic wet dream scenarios about that same patch of land, and all the political in the world would have a hard time finding a peaceful solution when involved parties are literally hoping and praying for armageddon.

Tigerbaby

wes wrote: »

Much like Europe before World War 2, a lot of those countries really ****ing hate each other, and the leaders for the most part hate the Palestinians as well, or use them as a prop to help prop up their regime and play lip services to them.

thank you Wes,

but no-one answers;

why the lack of (practical) support for Palestine?

Where are the MANPADS, the anti-tank missiles, the anti-ship missiles? when these people in their ghetto desperately need some means of defence. they can only resort to slings against Goliath.

why no help from their kin nearby?

And if their kin don't care why should we in the West care?

awkward questions to be sure.

wes

Tigerbaby wrote: »

thank you Wes,

but no-one answers;

why the lack of (practical) support for Palestine?

Where are the MANPADS, the anti-tank missiles, the anti-ship missiles? when these people in their ghetto desperately need some means of defence. they can only resort to slings against Goliath.

why no help from their kin nearby?

And if their kin don't care why should we in the West care?

awkward questions to be sure.

Anyone who did that would be sanctioned into oblivion, like the West does to Iran. They didn't even ease sanctions, when Iran was suffering from covid, which imo was pretty ****ing evil.

Tigerbaby

wes wrote: »

Anyone who did that would be sanctioned into oblivion, like the West does to Iran.

thank you Wes.

succinct and correct.

jam_mac_jam

Tigerbaby wrote: »

thank you Wes,

but no-one answers;

why the lack of (practical) support for Palestine?

Where are the MANPADS, the anti-tank missiles, the anti-ship missiles? when these people in their ghetto desperately need some means of defence. they can only resort to slings against Goliath.

why no help from their kin nearby?

And if their kin don't care why should we in the West care?

awkward questions to be sure.

Egypt have pledged lots of money to try and rebuild Gaza.

If they go up against Israel they go up against the US. Can you blame the surrounding countries really. That doesn't mean they don't care. They don't want their country destroyed.

We should care because they are human beings. Does it matter if they are kin or not?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the religious angle is being underplayed, honestly. You have extremist muslims, jews and christians, all with very similar messianic or apocalyptic wet dream scenarios about that same patch of land, and all the political in the world would have a hard time finding a peaceful solution when involved parties are literally hoping and praying for armageddon.

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.

In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

- Zechariah Chapter 12.

This is why god-fearing US evangelicals defend Israel hell or high water. The verse is an often trotted out chant.

Overheal

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Egypt have pledged lots of money to try and rebuild Gaza.

If they go up against Israel they go up against the US. Can you blame the surrounding countries really. That doesn't mean they don't care. They don't want their country destroyed.

We should care because they are human beings. Does it matter if they are kin or not?

All humans are kin.

Tigerbaby

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Egypt have pledged lots of money to try and rebuild Gaza.

If they go up against Israel they go up against the US. Can you blame the surrounding countries really. That doesn't mean they don't care. They don't want their country destroyed.

We should care because they are human beings. Does it matter if they are kin or not?

Jam

of course we should care;

but what can we do? in practical terms?

BDS? maybe.

Genuinely; what can we do to help the people of Palestine?

Given that we also suffered plantation and genocide in our past.

Its not enough or fair to Palestinians to come on here every 6 years and say "Israel Bad"

what can we really do to help?

Overheal

Tigerbaby wrote: »

Jam

of course we should care;

but what can we do? in practical terms?

BDS? maybe.

Genuinely; what can we do to help the people of Palestine?

Given that we also suffered plantation and genocide in our past.

Its not enough or fair to Palestinians to come on here every 6 years and say "Israel Bad"

what can we really do to help?

And, I say this as a patriotic American: you boycott the United States. You make this a controversy relevant to Americans.

wes

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1395054704086892545?s=20

Good to see changes in the US, hopefully we will see changes in European countries especially the likes of Germany, who seem to think making Palestinians pay for the crimes of their grand parents is somehow ok. Not to mention some disturbing Anti-Palestinian racism from German politicians and silencing of any Palestinians, and sheer insane spectacle of German politicians accusing anti-zionist Jewish activists of being anti-semites (seriously wtf is wrong with them).

wes

https://twitter.com/EricLevitz/status/1395042127927709700?s=20

It amazing that extremist Zionists are basically allowed to openly call for genocide in Western publications.

jam_mac_jam

Tigerbaby wrote: »

Jam

of course we should care;

but what can we do? in practical terms?

BDS? maybe.

Genuinely; what can we do to help the people of Palestine?

Given that we also suffered plantation and genocide in our past.

Its not enough or fair to Palestinians to come on here every 6 years and say "Israel Bad"

what can we really do to help?

Bds, boycott, donate raise awareness.

Opinions are changing. That's through years and years of people campaigning.

How did South Africa change?

I know it's not much. But we have to try.

jam_mac_jam

wes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricLevitz/status/1395042127927709700?s=20

It amazing that extremist Zionists are basically allowed to openly call for genocide in Western publications.

Fleas. Jesus Christ.

wes

FFS, blocking charity donations now:
https://twitter.com/wyoumans/status/1395144645672415238?s=20

Honestly, it seems some people just want the Palestinians to just die.

Tigerbaby

Overheal wrote: »

And, I say this as a patriotic American: you boycott the United States. You make this a controversy relevant to Americans.

Overheal,

thank you.

I'm confused. How do we boycott America? America is a state of mind, in our heads and in our pockets.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the religious angle is being underplayed, honestly. You have extremist muslims, jews and christians, all with very similar messianic or apocalyptic wet dream scenarios about that same patch of land, and all the political in the world would have a hard time finding a peaceful solution when involved parties are literally hoping and praying for armageddon.

That's because you have mentally unstable people in all religions.

You also have dicks who just don't like people because of where they are from and their religion, or at least the fact that they come from a specific ethnicity associated with a specific religion, is just another way to try and rail against them, and saying anyone who disagrees with them are lefties, anti semitic etc.
In all cases they come across as very sad inadequate little people who don't seem to have anything in their lives that makes them happy other than the misfortunes of others.

jam_mac_jam

Overheal wrote: »

And, I say this as a patriotic American: you boycott the United States. You make this a controversy relevant to Americans.

I completely agree. The way to stop this is through the US. Change public opinion there.

I am noticing a real difference in the coverage in media. I don't know if it's awareness of colonialism and racism or 911 is further away and there is less anti Arab sentiment but there seems to be a difference.

Maybe just sick of paying for it when they have spent so much on war themselves.

Isreal as a victim has to wear thin at some stage.

Overheal

wes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EricLevitz/status/1395042127927709700?s=20

It amazing that extremist Zionists are basically allowed to openly call for genocide in Western publications.

Here's the full piece

https://www.newsweek.com/middle-east-give-war-chance-opinion-1592611

The citation he uses to contextualize dogs and fleas appears reasonable, actually. I've bought the authors books on Amazon just there out of pocket and I'll have to give a read of it properly but, for example an excerpt (under Fair Use):





It's not exactly the same dog whistle that the tweet alleges.

Yes, I intended the pun and I'd do it again.

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

That's because you have mentally unstable people in all religions.

You also have dicks who just don't like people because of where they are from and their religion, or at least the fact that they come from a specific ethnicity associated with a specific religion, is just another way to try and rail against them, and saying anyone who disagrees with them are lefties, anti semitic etc.
In all cases they come across as very sad inadequate little people who don't seem to have anything in their lives that makes them happy other than the misfortunes of others.

Well gosh, that went right off a ****ing cliff lol

Housefree

Amira Hass

Gaza Lives Erased: Israel Is Wiping Out Entire Palestinian Families on Purpose

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/gaza-israel-wiping-entire-palestinian-families-hamas-1.9820005

Wiping out entire families in Israeli bombings was one of the characteristics of the war in 2014. In the roughly 50 days of the war then, UN figures say that 142 Palestinian families were erased (742 people in total). The numerous incidents then and today attest that these were not mistakes: and that the bombing of a house while all its residents are in it follows a decision from higher up, backed by the examination and approval of military jurists.

markodaly

wes wrote: »

I agree, the genocide of the Native Americans is actually the best comparison. What we are seeing is a slow genocide, one that take place over decades.

Must be a pretty bad Genocide if the population of Arab Palestinians has more than doubled in the last 20 years.

People using such words don't know what they mean, or do know what they mean but want that emotional hit, when using the word.